Seeking advice on groundstrokes contact point

guang2024

Rookie
Hi Friends,

I am working on my groundstroke techniques, and due to limited coaching availability in my town, I seek advices through online coaching.

He mentioned the following:
1. My hip and shoulder were not turned completely when I make contact with the ball, which meant my body was working against my shot at the moment of contact. (you can see this from the side angle)
2. He mentioned I kept the same rhythm throughout my swing and wanted me to accelerate the racquet more when close to making contact with the ball, make it more obvious.
3. He didn't like my follow through over the shoulder, he said its too high

I understand my contact point is late on both sides but he didn't provide any drill to correct it. Can anyone give me any advices?
Additionally, please let me know if you disagree with him or have noticed anything else I can improve! Criticism is welcomed with open arms!

Here are the link to my videos:
Forehand Sideview
Backhand Sideview
Forehand Backview
 
Hi Friends,

I am working on my groundstroke techniques, and due to limited coaching availability in my town, I seek advices through online coaching.

He mentioned the following:
1. My hip and shoulder were not turned completely when I make contact with the ball, which meant my body was working against my shot at the moment of contact. (you can see this from the side angle)
2. He mentioned I kept the same rhythm throughout my swing and wanted me to accelerate the racquet more when close to making contact with the ball, make it more obvious.
3. He didn't like my follow through over the shoulder, he said its too high

I understand my contact point is late on both sides but he didn't provide any drill to correct it. Can anyone give me any advices?
Additionally, please let me know if you disagree with him or have noticed anything else I can improve! Criticism is welcomed with open arms!

Here are the link to my videos:
Forehand Sideview
Backhand Sideview
Forehand Backview
contact point and follow thru are solid if you are looking for lifting topspin shot... follow thru is high for a Drive shot though...
 
contact point and follow thru are solid if you are looking for lifting topspin shot... follow thru is high for a Drive shot though...
Oh I didn’t know they had different contact points…and yes, I believe I can’t find the proper contact point for a drive shot in that case, is there any drill I can do to find it?
 
Hi Friends,

I am working on my groundstroke techniques, and due to limited coaching availability in my town, I seek advices through online coaching.

He mentioned the following:
1. My hip and shoulder were not turned completely when I make contact with the ball, which meant my body was working against my shot at the moment of contact. (you can see this from the side angle)
2. He mentioned I kept the same rhythm throughout my swing and wanted me to accelerate the racquet more when close to making contact with the ball, make it more obvious.
3. He didn't like my follow through over the shoulder, he said its too high

I understand my contact point is late on both sides but he didn't provide any drill to correct it. Can anyone give me any advices?
Additionally, please let me know if you disagree with him or have noticed anything else I can improve! Criticism is welcomed with open arms!

Here are the link to my videos:
Forehand Sideview
Backhand Sideview
Forehand Backview

When I try to look at the tilt of your racket face just before impact, it is apparent that your framming rate is too slow.

Your racket should tilt closed about 5-10 degrees at impact to emulate the ATP pros. Late in the article they show high speed videos of the forehand drive and the tilt of the racket face before and after impact. This is the best display of the tilt on the racket face and how it rapidly tilts from the impact.
 
It was filmed on an iPhone, I believe it was 30 frame rate if not mistaken...

Great article! I skimmed through it, it definitely explained the biomechanics well. However, it still lacks the action portion where I can drill and improve. is there any course or something to teach me how to bring my contact point forward?
 
FH and BH look good to me. I wouldn't change anything.
Hi, if you look at it in 0.25x speed, my contact point for both sides, especially backhand, are late a little. I think that made my body not turned completely at contact. I also hit with too much force going vertical (up) and not enough force going horizontal (drive) I think...looking for drills to correct those
 
Hi Friends,

I am working on my groundstroke techniques, and due to limited coaching availability in my town, I seek advices through online coaching.

He mentioned the following:
1. My hip and shoulder were not turned completely when I make contact with the ball, which meant my body was working against my shot at the moment of contact. (you can see this from the side angle)
2. He mentioned I kept the same rhythm throughout my swing and wanted me to accelerate the racquet more when close to making contact with the ball, make it more obvious.
3. He didn't like my follow through over the shoulder, he said its too high

I understand my contact point is late on both sides but he didn't provide any drill to correct it. Can anyone give me any advices?
Additionally, please let me know if you disagree with him or have noticed anything else I can improve! Criticism is welcomed with open arms!

Here are the link to my videos:
Forehand Sideview
Backhand Sideview
Possible solution: you, on most of these forehands, have a neutral to closed stance and you are moving your weight straight forward while hitting. Do you want to move forward or rotate to where you hit out front? It’s hard to do both. Maybe if you were stepping to the left foot, pulled far enough left toward the ad court doubles alley, you could get away with it.
 
Possible solution: you, on most of these forehands, have a neutral to closed stance and you are moving your weight straight forward while hitting. Do you want to move forward or rotate to where you hit out front? It’s hard to do both. Maybe if you were stepping to the left foot, pulled far enough left toward the ad court doubles alley, you could get away with it.
I think my problem like the online coach was pointing out, was I did not rotate enough and forward enough at contact point, causing 1. my contact point too close to the body 2. hip and shoulder not turned completely towards the direction I want to hit

I have no clue how to fix that, is there any drill for that that you know of?
 
I think my problem like the online coach was pointing out, was I did not rotate enough and forward enough at contact point, causing 1. my contact point too close to the body 2. hip and shoulder not turned completely towards the direction I want to hit

I have no clue how to fix that, is there any drill for that that you know of?
Your hip and shoulder can’t rotate due to your feet.
 
I am getting confused, what did the online coach mean then when he said my hip and shoulder were not turned completely at contact? I just tried it, I can but it is indeed kind of awkward because I'll be twisting
It isn’t as awkward if you have your feet in a position to allow the hips and shoulders to face the net.
Put your toes on the baseline. Turn your upper body 90 degrees to the right. Drop feed balls to your forehand one foot out into the court. You’ll hit out front.
While hitting, you won’t have to be that open with your stance, but you need to use your feet in a way to allow that contact point. Currently, you are not.
 
It isn’t as awkward if you have your feet in a position to allow the hips and shoulders to face the net.
Put your toes on the baseline. Turn your upper body 90 degrees to the right. Drop feed balls to your forehand one foot out into the court. You’ll hit out front.
While hitting, you won’t have to be that open with your stance, but you need to use your feet in a way to allow that contact point. Currently, you are not.
This, I will try this for sure. thank you!
 
You can compare 2 Youtubes of tennis strokes frame-by-frame and one above the other in this post. If you want to do it let me know and I'll search for some of my earlier posts on comparing strokes. Compare videos with similar camera views for best accuracy. If you have a model 2HBH player, search a video and post it under your video. You can post a total of 5 videos in a forum post.
To single frame on Youtube, stop video, use the period & comma keys.

I have not studied 2 hand backhands.

I looked only at how closed your racket face was just before impact for some backhands.

The racket face looked neutral. I'm sure it should be closed. Look at ATP 2HBHs from the side camera view and estimate how closed the ATP 2HBHs are. 6-10 d. ?

You have the Tennisspeed reference, Post #4, I use for the tilt of the racket face for forehands just before impact. That is ideal - for what you want to understand also for 2HBHs and the tilt of your racket face.

One objective I have is to get forum readers started analyzing their own strokes by observing differences between their strokes and ATP player's strokes, one above the other. Be glad to answer questions and discuss some of the differences that you observe.
 
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I have been working on contact in front myself and watching a few pro videos. Pros frequently hit just an inch or two in front of the body viewed from the side. Your contact points look fine on both sides. Maybe could be a little earlier on the 2HBH but Sinner frequently hits right at the front side. On some shots, pros hit a few more inches in front but it isn't as far in front as I thought pros hit prior to reviewing their video. You are using good body rotation on your strokes too. Overall, you have nice swings.
 
Your strokes are fine.

Some people think about their feet/stance like me. Some people don't, and just do it automatically.
There was one instance where your left foot crossed over your right foot too much on FH.
But the ball feed was slow, so most shots were done in neutral stance, which is good.

----------------------------
Because you are using a Wilson PS97 11.1oz (am i right?) I'll give you some tips, which I think are 100% correct. Some ATP pro can refute me tho lol.
That's a mighty fine racket.

Not sure if you had a target, or were just going for the most optimal 'stroke.'

Every shot is different. You will never look the same, no one does, on any particular shot. At least in a match. Or you'd win every point! No opponent should let you hit your most optimal stroke.
You have to earn it by moving in the right position.

Also. Your stroke will change depending on how 'heavy' the incoming ball is.
If you hit with any top varsity or college player, you'll probably be pushed back, or strain your arm if you don't hit it correctly.
It's hard to tell from feeding such slow balls like that. But maybe it was the intention.
And if you hit a slow ball like you hit a fast heavy ball, it won't work either!

You get what I'm trying to say?
Play some matches. Win. Then plateau at 4.0 NTRP.
Then go find hitting partners to simulate opponents you can't beat. Your strokes will evolve over time.

That tennis HQ series on Youtube is great. The pro just hit down the middle (solid balls) to the 4.5 guy, and he won like 6-1 or 6-0.
 
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Hi Friends,

I am working on my groundstroke techniques, and due to limited coaching availability in my town, I seek advices through online coaching.

He mentioned the following:
1. My hip and shoulder were not turned completely when I make contact with the ball, which meant my body was working against my shot at the moment of contact. (you can see this from the side angle)
2. He mentioned I kept the same rhythm throughout my swing and wanted me to accelerate the racquet more when close to making contact with the ball, make it more obvious.
3. He didn't like my follow through over the shoulder, he said its too high

I understand my contact point is late on both sides but he didn't provide any drill to correct it. Can anyone give me any advices?
Additionally, please let me know if you disagree with him or have noticed anything else I can improve! Criticism is welcomed with open arms!

Here are the link to my videos:
Forehand Sideview
Backhand Sideview
Forehand Backview
have you ever thought of experimenting with more of an inside to outside swing path?
for me, anyway, makes me feel more connected with my hips
i think i end up doing a 3/4's of a figure-8... hitting hand lines up hand behind the contact, the drop comes in closer to my hip, then goes back out to contact
my $.02
 
Your strokes are fine.

Some people think about their feet/stance like me. Some people don't, and just do it automatically.
There was one instance where your left foot crossed over your right foot too much on FH.
But the ball feed was slow, so most shots were done in neutral stance, which is good.

----------------------------
Because you are using a Wilson PS97 11.1oz (am i right?) I'll give you some tips, which I think are 100% correct. Some ATP pro can refute me tho lol.
That's a mighty fine racket.

Not sure if you had a target, or were just going for the most optimal 'stroke.'

Every shot is different. You will never look the same, no one does, on any particular shot. At least in a match. Or you'd win every point! No opponent should let you hit your most optimal stroke.
You have to earn it by moving in the right position.

Also. Your stroke will change depending on how 'heavy' the incoming ball is.
If you hit with any top varsity or college player, you'll probably be pushed back, or strain your arm if you don't hit it correctly.
It's hard to tell from feeding such slow balls like that. But maybe it was the intention.
And if you hit a slow ball like you hit a fast heavy ball, it won't work either!

You get what I'm trying to say?
Play some matches. Win. Then plateau at 4.0 NTRP.
Then go find hitting partners to simulate opponents you can't beat. Your strokes will evolve over time.

That tennis HQ series on Youtube is great. The pro just hit down the middle (solid balls) to the 4.5 guy, and he won like 6-1 or 6-0.
I'm trying to refine my strokes, so that when I practice them with repetition I get the greatest return for my time, like building a good foundation. I plan to hit slower balls first with quality and eventually work my way up to faster heavier balls. I'm hoping I have the right approach here.

I do agree I need to play matches though, I have never really played a match in my life. For rating, I'm starting with 3.0 since I literally have no experience play matches
 
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have you ever thought of experimenting with more of an inside to outside swing path?
for me, anyway, makes me feel more connected with my hips
i think i end up doing a 3/4's of a figure-8... hitting hand lines up hand behind the contact, the drop comes in closer to my hip, then goes back out to contact
my $.02
will try that on court today!
 
You can compare 2 Youtubes of tennis strokes frame-by-frame and one above the other in this post. If you want to do it let me know and I'll search for some of my earlier posts on comparing strokes. Compare videos with similar camera views for best accuracy. If you have a model 2HBH player, search a video and post it under your video. You can post a total of 5 videos in a forum post.
To single frame on Youtube, stop video, use the period & comma keys.

I have not studied 2 hand backhands.

I looked only at how closed your racket face was just before impact for some backhands.

The racket face looked neutral. I'm sure it should be closed. Look at ATP 2HBHs from the side camera view and estimate how closed the ATP 2HBHs are. 6-10 d. ?

You have the Tennispeed reference, Post #4, I use for the tilt of the racket face for forehands just before impact. That is ideal - for what you want to understand also for 2HBHs and the tilt of your racket face.

One objective I have is to get forum readers started analyzing their own strokes by observing differences between their strokes and ATP player's strokes, one above the other. Be glad to answer questions and discuss some of the differences that you observe.
For backhand, I try to look at Djokovic as an example. My backhand in this case, if you slow down the video to 0.25x speed, you'd see my contact points were on the side of the body instead of the front, and my hands were close to my body/waist when I swing at the ball, I think that prevents me from having a contact point away and in front of my body. I also just swing too late at the ball too. To fix that, I plan to extend my arms as far back as possible so that when I swing I'd be forced to hit the ball away and out front. I could implement similar strategy for my forehand too. What do you think?
 
Oh I didn’t know they had different contact points…and yes, I believe I can’t find the proper contact point for a drive shot in that case, is there any drill I can do to find it?
imo, the ideal contact is gonna be about the same for both...
mainly will have a steeper angle low2high swing when lifting the ball (eg. on a ball that is descending)
and will have a shallower angle low2high swing when driving the ball (eg. hitting on the rise)
also depends on what you're trying to do with the shot.

arguablly when hitting a comfortable height drive shot, you have more of a strikezone/window to hit "out in front" as your arms can extend more horizontally out (than vertically up)
 
For backhand, I try to look at Djokovic as an example. My backhand in this case, if you slow down the video to 0.25x speed, you'd see my contact points were on the side of the body instead of the front, and my hands were close to my body/waist when I swing at the ball, I think that prevents me from having a contact point away and in front of my body. I also just swing too late at the ball too. To fix that, I plan to extend my arms as far back as possible so that when I swing I'd be forced to hit the ball away and out front. I could implement similar strategy for my forehand too. What do you think?

I have not studied the 2HBH enough to make comments from memory. I'll look at your observations later. You seem to be analyzing it perfectly. Note any differences and decide whether to ignore them or adjust your strokes. For Djokovic's 2HBH, I noticed some time ago that Djokovic adjusts his racket for low balls by tilting it down and also the axis for his circular swing may be tilted. For most accurate comparisons use very similar camera angles. Pros use a specific set of specific sub-motions that are in use in the ATP.

Note the angle of Djokovic's upper arms. Those angles affects the distance out from both the uppermost body turn and the shoulder joints. The distances out from the rotation axes affects racket head speed. Uppermost body turn is seen by the line between the 2 shoulder, rotation axis spine. Rotation axes for the shoulder joints are through the humerus balls of the joints. But the shoulder joints are already rotating from uppermost body turn. Some players hold a more rigid triangle for 2HBHs, triangle of shoulder, shoulder and hands. Use of shoulder joints? I am familiar with the 1HBH and one shoulder joint.

You can put the cursor on the Youtube time bar and slide it back and forth around impact at various speeds. Sometimes viewing the motions at varous speeds make certain things stand out - especially good for the serve. I have looked at stroke videos carefully for 13 years and I still have missed some sub-motions until they were pointed out. Observe all differences.

I have posted on several strokes and their sub-motions with high speed videos.
forehand
forehand separation
serve
1HBH

I would expect 2HBH to use similar separation.

WARNING - ATP players are conditioned and twist and untwist their spines at high speed. Their motions may be too stressful for some players.

I'm not a tennis instructor.
 
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You can compare 2 Youtubes of tennis strokes frame-by-frame and one above the other in this post. If you want to do it let me know and I'll search for some of my earlier posts on comparing strokes. Compare videos with similar camera views for best accuracy. If you have a model 2HBH player, search a video and post it under your video. You can post a total of 5 videos in a forum post.
To single frame on Youtube, stop video, use the period & comma keys.

I have not studied 2 hand backhands.

I looked only at how closed your racket face was just before impact for some backhands.

The racket face looked neutral. I'm sure it should be closed. Look at ATP 2HBHs from the side camera view and estimate how closed the ATP 2HBHs are. 6-10 d. ?

You have the Tennisspeed reference, Post #4, I use for the tilt of the racket face for forehands just before impact. That is ideal - for what you want to understand also for 2HBHs and the tilt of your racket face.

One objective I have is to get forum readers started analyzing their own strokes by observing differences between their strokes and ATP player's strokes, one above the other. Be glad to answer questions and discuss some of the differences that you observe.

2HBH

OP analysis
"For backhand, I try to look at Djokovic as an example. My backhand in this case, if you slow down the video to 0.25x speed, you'd see my contact points were on the side of the body instead of the front, and my hands were close to my body/waist when I swing at the ball, I think that prevents me from having a contact point away and in front of my body. I also just swing too late at the ball too. To fix that, I plan to extend my arms as far back as possible so that when I swing I'd be forced to hit the ball away and out front. I could implement similar strategy for my forehand too. What do you think?"

Agree on impact locations.

guang2024 clip 25 sec, near Impact, Upper arms close to sides, angled down at shoulders, shortens radius out from spine rotation axis=reduces RHS, total rotation uppermost body, start to impact, estimate X degrees

Djokovic clip 5 sec, 1frame Before Impact, Upper arms angled out at shoulders, lengthens radius out from spine rotation axis=increases RHS, total rotation uppermost body, start to impact, estimate 2X degrees. In other words, Djokovic has estimated twice the uppermost body turn angle that you do. He is exceptionally flexible.

The uppermost body turn is an important source of RHS. It also affects aim in the azmithal direction (side to side aim).

Look at how far out Djokovic's upper arms are in typical 2HBHs. You said "I plan to extend my arms as far back as possible so that when I swing I'd be forced to hit the ball away and out front." See what ATP players do, avoid adding new sub-motions that you invent and or changing sub-motions that you see in the ATP. There are a limited number of similar sub-motions in use in the ATP. Sub-motions are usually used in matching sets.

I have not studied legs & hip sub-motions and variety for ATP 2HBHs or forehands. You need to do that. I have not studied separation on 2HBHs and variety, you need to do that. Image the line between Djokovic's 2 shoulders and the line between Djokovic's 2 hips. Imagine viewing these two lines from above. They would form the separation angle, a measure of the twisting and untwisting of the upper body resulting in uppermost body turn (line between the 2 shoulders). The two lines move independently and certain abdominal muscles stretch. When you watch TV tournaments, watch the line between the 2 shoulders turn back & forward. That shows better from high camera angles and ideally from a rare overhead camera.

Since uppermost body turn is very important for 2HBH and especially for your aim, maybe you should continue thinking about what you are seeing and look at some other ATP players for variety. If you look at 10 ATP player's 2HBHs and 8 of 10 use a certain set of sub-motions, you have a 2024 2HBH model stroke. I think Murray and some others may use a straight arm triangle 2HBH.

(I just looked at several 2HBHs and some of them might be using a 'chest press' sub-motion where the front arm has the chest press on the upper arm, similar to a baseball batter. See videos. I don't want to study 2HBHs............. your upper arms were down and that eliminates 'chest press' )

WARNING - Djokovic is conditioned and his flexibility is exceptional, so use him as a guide for excellent technique, but limit what you do for safety.

Examine your body flexibility and ranges of motion. Look into conditioning for safety.
 
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For backhand, I try to look at Djokovic as an example. My backhand in this case, if you slow down the video to 0.25x speed, you'd see my contact points were on the side of the body instead of the front, and my hands were close to my body/waist when I swing at the ball, I think that prevents me from having a contact point away and in front of my body. I also just swing too late at the ball too. To fix that, I plan to extend my arms as far back as possible so that when I swing I'd be forced to hit the ball away and out front. I could implement similar strategy for my forehand too. What do you think?

That is a very good analysis of the most important parts of the 2HBH.

How long did it take you to get that?
 
No, I didn't. Why do you think you know better than me. Arrogance?
Common sense. Different stances would cause different distances in front of the foot. Makes zero sense to use that as a reference. You would have to tell people you were using the foot. It confused the rest of us.
 
Common sense. Different stances would cause different distances in front of the foot. Makes zero sense to use that as a reference. You would have to tell people you were using the foot. It confused the rest of us.
So, you also speak for "the rest of us"? Contact is usually a little in front of the lead foot regardless of stances and sometimes the lead foot is right foot for a right handed player playing an open stance forehand with a step back of the left foot.
 
You have good intuition to try many things to improve.

There's a ton of variables, the string tension also affects the way you swing.

I think people will either go for nadal or delpo style in the end. Most of us mortals are just trying to consistently hit solid balls every time.

You can't do much with a solid heavy ball on hard court in humid weather....

See where I'm going with the variables thing?
 
O
So, you also speak for "the rest of us"? Contact is usually a little in front of the lead foot regardless of stances and sometimes the lead foot is right foot for a right handed player playing an open stance forehand with a step back of the left foot.
Ok. I’m sorry! Everyone but me knew you were talking about the lead foot.
 
To select a video, hold down the ctrl & alt keys and left mouse click on the Youtube, otherwise the video starts playing. Select very similar camera angles for most accurate comparisons. To single frame on Youtube, use the period & comma keys. Go to impacts and single frame back and forth comparing videos in similar server positions in both videos. Note all differences between your forehands and the ATP forehands. Record time of video to identify. Avoid warm up and slow forehands or forehands under pressure, you want their better shots under little pressure.

Forehand Comparisons

There is a 5 video limit on the forum.
 
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To select a video, hold down the ctrl & alt keys and left mouse click on the Youtube, otherwise the video starts playing. Select very similar camera angles for most accurate comparisons. To single frame on Youtube, use the period & comma keys. Go to impacts and single frame back and forth comparing videos in similar server positions in both videos. Note all differences between your forehands and the ATP forehands. Record time of forehands to identify. Avoid warm up and slow forehands or forehands under pressure, you want their better shots under little pressure.

Forehand compilation for comparisons

I'll be glad to help you interpret the differences.

SEARCHSTROKECOMPARISON
 
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