Senario about Federer's claim to GOAT & Nadal

samboy01 said:
Nadal owns all these players you named.
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Right he owns Djokovic on hardcourt right?????? He owns Murray on hardcourt also?????? Oh and what about Del potro?????. And what if we include Davydenko If I'm correct he leads the h2h against nadal so is he a better player??? Your only case is Soderling at the moment.
 
GOAT is not adjective ! it is SUPERLATIVE !
The GREATEST - MUST be only one SINGLE PERSON.
ONE SINGLE PERSON !!!
and if it is not FEDERER, then WHO ?


Unfortunately, the answer is not the one ********* can stomach.
That's why they keep reinventing their last straw - H2H.
As there is nothing else left on their hands.
 
Nadal has beaten Djokovic on all surfaces. Djokovic has not.

Nadal has beaten Murray on all surfaces. Murray has not.

Nadal has beaten Del Potro on all surfaces. Del Potro has not.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Please.
 
samboy01 said:
Nadal has beaten Djokovic on all surfaces. Djokovic has not.

Nadal has beaten Murray on all surfaces. Murray has not.

Nadal has beaten Del Potro on all surfaces. Del Potro has not.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Please.
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A win is a win isn't it?? You can justify your argument because nadal has already beaten federer on all surfaces neither you or I know if all the players you mentioned will beat nadal on all surfaces in the future.
 
All-rounder said:
A win is a win isn't it?? You can justify your argument because nadal has already beaten federer on all surfaces neither you or I know if all the players you mentioned will beat nadal on all surfaces in the future.
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Exactly, a win is a win. So why do *******s find the excuse about clay? Nadal has a winning record against all these players.
 
If Federer had a winning or level H2H against Nadal, there'd be no questions about his GOAT status but Nadal's domination of him has certainly introduced a lot of questions. So all we can do is express an opinion. IMO, Roger Federer is the GOAT. He's done too much not to warrant that claim.
 
samboy01 said:
Exactly, a win is a win. So why do *******s find the excuse about clay? Nadal has a winning record against all these players.
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Nobody is finding excuses we have all acknowledged that all their meetings were won fairly. But what is a fact is that the majority of them have been on clay. The argument most Fed fans are making is that if nadal was as good on for example (U.S open hardcourt) during years which Federer won the h2h would not be the way it is now when its the exact opposite. In this case its Federer who is making the finals on his weakest surface in slams. The real question people are asking is 'If Federer and Nadal met on all surfaces in every slam during 2005-2010 what would the h2h look like'.........
 
CC ... I don't know who you pull for but many of the Federer lovers remind me of monkeys swinging between branches.

They went from not caring about SoderKing to being his fans to not bothering to even utter his name all in the space of 1 year. I saw them bash Del Potro for beating Federer in the U.S Open final last year and now they're using him in their arguments. IMO, monkeys aren't as restless! :)

cyrilcanada said:
Wait a second ? So it is Nadal who won last US Open.
Wow...
I thought it is DelPotro who embarassed Nadal : 6:2 6:2 6:2

Live and learn ...
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cyrilcanada said:
Dude ...

DelPo took a GrandSlam from him.
Who in sane mind would not trade winning records for US GS ?

Nadal would.
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If DelPotro had a 6-2 record in grandslams against Nadal, like Nadal has over Federer, you would have a point. But 1-0, every player has such records against them, it's not "owning".
 
cyrilcanada said:
Dude ...

DelPo took a GrandSlam from him.
Who in sane mind would not trade winning records for US GS ?

Nadal would.
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If DelPotro had a 6-2 record in grandslams against Nadal, like Nadal has over Federer, you would have a point. But 1-0, every player has such records against them, it's not "owning".

EDIT: ACTUALLY IT's 1-1 between them in GS. Get a life!!!! LOL
 
samboy01 said:
If DelPotro had a 6-2 record in grandslams against Nadal, like Nadal has over Federer, you would have a point. But 1-0, every player has such records against them, it's not "owning".
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The French Open really does skew that stat though, and everyone knows Nadal is better on clay than Federer. Federer has absolutely no claim at Clay GOAT.
 
ksbh said:
If Federer had a winning or level H2H against Nadal, there'd be no questions about his GOAT status but Nadal's domination of him has certainly introduced a lot of questions. So all we can do is express an opinion. IMO, Roger Federer is the GOAT. He's done too much not to warrant that claim.
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I feel the same way and if Federer can pull out a few last ditch clutch GS wins it will b solidified further. After 2008 I had more questions about Federer but after I started smelling the stench of Nadal after 2009 things became a bit more clearer. Fool me once shame on u. Fool me twice shame on me. :)
 
Ray Mercer said:
How can anyone honestly argue Nadal is the better player with the results they have put up. Does anyone see Federer losing to the following players in slams

Gonzalez
Youzhny
Tsonga
Blake
Murray multiple times
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You forgot DelPo! Nadal is lucky that DelPo is out of action, otherwise he would have been a strong contender @ this years FO too...
 
samboy01 said:
The reality is that you pretended that they only met once in a grandslam. But they met twice and they are 1-1. Get a life.
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why do you keep telling everyone to get a life? you look even more ridiculous, because you're posting more in this thread than anyone else.. so i think maybe it's you who needs to get a life.

but your argument on how nadal has beaten those players on all surfaces, Federer has beaten Nadal on all surfaces, and has a winning or tied record on all but clay, which cements how good Nadal is on that surface, but how others level the playing field considerably. and you continue to be a fool and say federer has been 'owned' which is just not the case. He's been competitive in all but 1 affair here, so get a life and look at the bloody stats.

and only the irresponsible Federer Fans bashed on Del Potro, ksbh. I was one who didn't, because it was obvious that he won it fair and square.
 
Cup8489 said:
and only the irresponsible Federer Fans bashed on Del Potro, ksbh. I was one who didn't, because it was obvious that he won it fair and square.
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Actually nobody bashed DelPo after his USO win. He won it fair & square by outplaying Fed just like he kicked the snort out of Rafa @ the same USO...

ksbh is just making stuff up to support his flawed logic...
 
fed_rulz said:
Scenario 1 (Federer's current profile -- NON-GOAT)

AO:
4W, 1F, 2 SF

RG:
1 W, 3 F, 1 SF
wimby:
6W, 1F

USO:
5W, 1F

Tennis Masters:
4W, 1F

Master's 1000
Clay: 5 W, 5F, 1 SF
Non-clay: 11W, 1F

H2H:
Rafael Nadal : 7-14
Novak djokovic: 9-5
Juan Carlos ferrero : 9-3
Fernando Gonzalez : 12-1
David Nalbandian : 10-8
David Ferrer: 10-0
Andreas Seppi : 6-0
Gael Monfils : 5-0
Nikolay Davydenko : 13-2
Andy Roddick : 19-2
Mikhail Youzhny : 10-0
Marat Safin : 10-2

Miscellaneous:
23 consecutive SF in Grandslams, 18 out of last 20 finals

If Fed has lost in the SF of every tournament he lost to Nadal in the finals, then according to some ******** logic, he has a stronger case for GOAT.


Scenario 2 (Federer's GOAT profile)

AO:
4W, 3 SF

RG:
1 W, 4 SF
wimby:
6W, 1SF

USO:
5W, 1F

Tennis Masters:
4W, 1F

Master's 1000
Clay : 5 W, 6 SF
non-clay : 11W, 1F

H2H:
Rafael Nadal : 7-2
Novak djokovic: 8-6
Juan Carlos ferrero : 8-4
Fernando Gonzalez : 11-2
David Nalbandian : 8-10
David Ferrer: 9-1
Andreas Seppi : 5-1
Gael Monfils : 4-1
Nikolay Davydenko : 12-3
Andy Roddick : 18-3
Mikhail Youzhny : 9-1
Marat Safin : 9-3

Miscellaneous:
23 consecutive SF in Grandslams, 14 out of last 20 finals


Clearly, Scenario 2 >> Scenario 1 :confused: ... Amriteorwhat?
Click to expand...

The thread should have ended @ this post!
 
samboy01 said:
Ok, I don't mean to do a fight, but I'm interested to find out what people think. Right now, based on stats alone, basically grandslam titles, weeks at no.1, consistancy, etc. Federer is without a doubt the GOAT.

Now here's the senario. Let's say Federer's rivalry against another all-time great Nadal ends 7-20 including 2-9 in grandslams (it's maybe extreme, but it's just a senario), would that be a valid reason to reconsider Federer's claim of GOAT status? The fact that he was owned by his biggest rival and never found a way to stop him? Or would the stats & titles alone, and consistency over the years, be enough?

Personally, I think if he's truly the GOAT, he would be able to find a way to do something about Nadal. So far he trails 7-14, and most importantly 2-6 in grandslams. I know that Federer fans will talk about surfaces & clay, but the fact remains that Nadal has beaten Federer in grandslams on hardcourt, grass and clay, while Federer has done it only on grass. So it's no excuse why Federer can't beat Nadal at the French Open, in 4 tries! Nadal did find a way to beat him at Wimbledon!

But back to the senario, what do you think?
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Nadal beating Federer past his peak means as much as Hewitt, Safin and Federer beating Sampras past his peak at Wimbledon, US Open.
 
samboy01 said:
Ok, I don't mean to do a fight, but I'm interested to find out what people think. Right now, based on stats alone, basically grandslam titles, weeks at no.1, consistancy, etc. Federer is without a doubt the GOAT.

Now here's the senario. Let's say Federer's rivalry against another all-time great Nadal ends 7-20 including 2-9 in grandslams (it's maybe extreme, but it's just a senario), would that be a valid reason to reconsider Federer's claim of GOAT status? The fact that he was owned by his biggest rival and never found a way to stop him? Or would the stats & titles alone, and consistency over the years, be enough?

Personally, I think if he's truly the GOAT, he would be able to find a way to do something about Nadal. So far he trails 7-14, and most importantly 2-6 in grandslams. I know that Federer fans will talk about surfaces & clay, but the fact remains that Nadal has beaten Federer in grandslams on hardcourt, grass and clay, while Federer has done it only on grass. So it's no excuse why Federer can't beat Nadal at the French Open, in 4 tries! Nadal did find a way to beat him at Wimbledon!

But back to the senario, what do you think?
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Your argument is completely irrelevant. Federer has the most slam wins, and more importantly, the most consistent slam performance of anyone in history. The fact that Nadal has a winning record on him means nothing since Nadal is the best clay courter ever, and the fact that Federer can dispatch easily on the dirt just to get to nadal speaks volumes about Federer's incredible abilities. If you're going to use his record against Nadal as the sole reason why he isn't the GOAT, then think about this: why does it matter? Nadal doesn't even have half of the slams that Federer does. Nadal is still very young but has had sidelining injuries. He takes medical timeouts whenever he starts losing poorly. Nadal hasn't ever gotten past the semis of the US open while Federer has won it 5 times against excellent players who have dispatched Nadal just days before. The fact that he doesn't have a winning record against one guy, and keep in mind that it's only a winning record due to clay, means absolutely nothing because Nadal is simply his foil, but like all foils, Nadal will never be in contention for anything. His injuries will end his career before he even gets close to Federer's slam numbers, let alone consistent appearances. These arguments are logically invalid because to use a meeting statistic, then you need to also discuss why Nadal is a better player than Fed, but you cannot since he isn't nearly as successful. No one ever talks about how great Nadal is, only why Federer is NOT great.
 
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rwn said:
Nadal beating Federer past his peak means as much as Hewitt, Safin and Federer beating Sampras past his peak at Wimbledon, US Open.
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Yeah so far past his peak and winning 3 of 4 slams once Nadal went down with injury. Nice one. Sampras was losing to Hewitt, Safin, and Federer when he went 25 months without winning a freaking tournament and was on his way to dropping out of the ATP top 10 almost the whole final 2 years of his career. When Federer reaches that point you can say he is well past it.

Also funny how *******s like to blindly claim Wimbledon 2001 proves Federer is better than Sampras on grass (LOL) yet dismiss Federer's losses to Nadal by being "past his prime". Funny logic, so Federer of the last couple years is more past his prime than Sampras in 2001 and 2002 now? And the World is square.

Not to mention ignorance of the fact Nadal started playing a peak Federer when he was just SEVENTEEN and played Federer on all surfaces multiples times well before his prime as well, yet still dominated Federer on clay and beat him multiple times on hard courts, including thumping him 6-3, 6-3 the first time they ever played on a hard court.
 
Clay this clay that. You know what, I really hope Federer makes the Wimbledon final against Nadal this year. I REALLY REALLY HOPE SO.
 
8489 ... how are you, ol' bean?!

Yes, I know only the irresponsible ones bashed him. There just happens to be an awful number of such fans! But you, 8489, are a thousand clicks above in terms of quality of the posts you write! I certainly wasn't directing my post at you! :)

Cup8489 said:
and only the irresponsible Federer Fans bashed on Del Potro, ksbh. I was one who didn't, because it was obvious that he won it fair and square.
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samboy01 said:
Clay this clay that. You know what, I really hope Federer makes the Wimbledon final against Nadal this year. I REALLY REALLY HOPE SO.
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OK, and why exactly would Fed losing to Nadal in the final be worse than him losing to Berdych tomorrow? If anything, surely making the final is better?
 
7000 ... making stuff up, flawed logic ... are you suffering a hangover from the previous night?! :)

A simple question for you, dear 7000 ... where has all the Federer fans support for SoderKing gone?! LOL!

Omega_7000 said:
Actually nobody bashed DelPo after his USO win. He won it fair & square by outplaying Fed just like he kicked the snort out of Rafa @ the same USO...

ksbh is just making stuff up to support his flawed logic...
Click to expand...
 
When both Nadal and Federer were at their peak in 2006 we saw the result at W. If Nadal reached a few more finals off of clay in 2006, the H2H would be even.
 
Berundi said:
When both Nadal and Federer were at their peak in 2006 we saw the result at W. If Nadal reached a few more finals off of clay in 2006, the H2H would be even.
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Yeah 2006 was peak Nadal the same way 2003 was peak Seles right. Nadal's prime began in 2008 around or just before turning 22, just like it did for Federer. It isnt Nadal's fault he didnt suck majorly as a teenager the way Federer did.
 
davey25 said:
Yeah so far past his peak and winning 3 of 4 slams once Nadal went down with injury. Nice one. Sampras was losing to Hewitt, Safin, and Federer when he went 25 months without winning a freaking tournament and was on his way to dropping out of the ATP top 10 almost the whole final 2 years of his career. When Federer reaches that point you can say he is well past it.

Also funny how *******s like to blindly claim Wimbledon 2001 proves Federer is better than Sampras on grass (LOL) yet dismiss Federer's losses to Nadal by being "past his prime". Funny logic, so Federer of the last couple years is more past his prime than Sampras in 2001 and 2002 now? And the World is square.

Not to mention ignorance of the fact Nadal started playing a peak Federer when he was just SEVENTEEN and played Federer on all surfaces multiples times well before his prime as well, yet still dominated Federer on clay and beat him multiple times on hard courts, including thumping him 6-3, 6-3 the first time they ever played on a hard court.
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No faulty logic really. In 2006, both Nadal and Fed were at their prime. In 2001, Sampras was past his prime as much Fed was before his prime so that evened out.
 
davey25 said:
Yeah 2006 was peak Nadal the same way 2003 was peak Seles right. Nadal's prime began in 2008 around or just before turning 22, just like it did for Federer. It isnt Nadal's fault he didnt suck majorly as a teenager the way Federer did.
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Nadal's game has hardly changed since 2006. The only change that has occurred from 2006 and onwards is Fed declining and getting past his prime. Nadal's so called "prime" in 2008 was due to Fed not being at his prime.
 
Berundi said:
No faulty logic really. In 2006, both Nadal and Fed were at their prime. In 2001, Sampras was past his prime as much Fed was before his prime so that evened out.
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A single match with 2 players outside of their primes means nothing. Nadal was NOT in his prime in 2006, and you are an idiot for even thinking he was. Nadal wouldnt even reach his first hard court slam semifinal for another 2 years.
 
davey25 said:
Yeah 2006 was peak Nadal the same way 2003 was peak Seles right. Nadal's prime began in 2008 around or just before turning 22, just like it did for Federer. It isnt Nadal's fault he didnt suck majorly as a teenager the way Federer did.
Click to expand...

Rafa won FO at 2005, that's when his prime began. You don't win so many slams in a row without being in your prime.
 
davey25 said:
A single match with 2 players outside of their primes means nothing. Nadal was NOT in his prime in 2006, and you are an idiot for even thinking he was. Nadal wouldnt even reach his first hard court slam semifinal for another 2 years.
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Nadal was in his prime in 2006 and you are an idiot for not thinking so. A single match at Pete's favourite venue means a lot when the veteran couldn't even take down a Fed in diapers. For shame. Agassi certainly did it into his 30s. Poor Pete, he's not even 2nd behind Fed for GOAT.
 
Berundi said:
Rafa won FO at 2005, that's when his prime began. You don't win so many slams in a row without being in your prime.
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Rafa can win the French Open without being in his prime since he is so far superior to Federer and everyone else on clay. So you are saying Federer can win 3 slams out of 4 and almost all 4 without being in his prime, yet Rafa cant win the French Open and only the French before his prime, LOL! Epic fail.
 
Berundi said:
A single match at Pete's favourite venue means a lot when the veteran couldn't even take down a Fed in diapers.
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So Federer about to turn 20 was in "diapers" while Nadal just barely 20 was already prime. Wow Federer really does suck by your logic.
 
davey25 said:
Rafa can win the French Open without being in his prime since he is so far superior to Federer and everyone else on clay. So you are saying Federer can win 3 slams out of 4 and almost all 4 without being in his prime, yet Rafa cant win the French Open and only the French before his prime, LOL! Epic fail.
Click to expand...

No Rafa cannot win the FO without being in his prime. He is not that superior to Fed when Fed is not sick. Check Hamburg and Madrid. Fed hasn't won 3/4 slams since 2007. The last year of his prime.
 
ksbh said:
7000 ... making stuff up, flawed logic ... are you suffering a hangover from the previous night?! :)

A simple question for you, dear 7000 ... where has all the Federer fans support for SoderKing gone?! LOL!
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What Federer fan support? Are you not allowed to cheer someone who beats Nadal on clay? :confused: Is that illegal in Rafa-land?

I personally admire him to have the guts to stand upto Rafa on his best surface but we all know he isn't a consistent player. He plays a high risk, high reward game and sometimes it works & sometimes it doesn't.

btw I still maintain you were making stuff up to support your argument. Other than a few posters, majority of Fed fans were actually congratulating DelPo on his victory. Unlike the hoard of Nadal fans who started crying knee injury after he lost to Soderling @ the FO, DelPo @ USO & Murray @ the AO.
 
Berundi said:
No Rafa cannot win the FO without being in his prime. He is not that superior to Fed when Fed is not sick. Check Hamburg and Madrid. Fed hasn't won 3/4 slams since 2007. The last year of his prime.
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Federer won 3 out of 4 slams from the 2009 French-2010 Australian and nearly the 4th for a non Calendar Slam. Not prime my ass.

And prime Nadal is FAR superior to Federer on clay, another league superior. Nearly all of their clay court matches since 2008 have been straight sets for Nadal, and their biggest clay court meeting was an epic beatdown, the biggest humiliation of a #1 in a slam final since your beloved Seles got ***** on Centre Court by Graf in 92. Federer cant even be competitive with Nadal on clay anymore unless he gets Nadal coming off a 4 hour marathon the day before like Hamburg 2007 and Madrid 2009. Otherwise he doesnt even get sets anymore.
 
Berundi said:
Different people mature at different rates. Look at you.
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It is not Nadal's fault he didnt suck as a teenager like Federer. Federer fanatics wish that was Nadal's prime but reality is proving to be different. Reality is Nadal began his prime at the exact age as Federer, around or just before turning 22 in 2008. He just happened to achieve a heck of alot more before getting there. Imagine comparing Nadal's level of tennis of 2005-2006 to 2008, early 2009 (before his knees blew out), or 2010, LOL!
 
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