Seniors lounge (over 50) come on in.

[Injured Again]

Nice video. I love your forehand and backhand.

The modern approach is the takeback with the racquethead up high so that the preparation for drive or dropshot is the same.

It's a bit surprising that your fh/bh is so effective compared to your dropshot.

At the takeback, my racquet head is mostly vertical but my left hand isn't anywhere close to it. It's just another one of those things, using my left hand to help turn my shoulders, that I just can't seem to execute. When I try, I can usually get the motion okay but everything after that point disintegrates. It's almost like I lose coordination and timing because of just having my left hand on the racquet during takeback.

Why do you think it's surprising that my groundstrokes are so effective compared to my (terrible) dropshot?

 

[ByeByePoly]

At the takeback, my racquet head is mostly vertical but my left hand isn't anywhere close to it. It's just another one of those things, using my left hand to help turn my shoulders, that I just can't seem to execute. When I try, I can usually get the motion okay but everything after that point disintegrates. It's almost like I lose coordination and timing because of just having my left hand on the racquet during takeback.

Why do you think it's surprising that my groundstrokes are so effective compared to my (terrible) dropshot?

I would be interested in what others think on this ... but imo the main point of the left arm across is ensuring a full unit turn. You have a full unit turn ... look balanced ... what are you missing that you would gain by putting the left arm across?

 

[Vanhalen]

By the way, I shot this video right before I decided to give the Aero 112 a long demo. Here, I've tried to change my backhand by flattening it out a bit from how I was hitting it before, but also slightly tightening up my spacing which seemed to allow me to hit an inside out backhand more consistently.

But the reason for posting this is that at about the 1:15 mark, I hit a couple of the drop shots like I'm trying to do now, with much more air and landing them short. My question is, is this better than the drop shots in my "inept drop shots" video I posted earlier?

Are you required to wear a mask?

 

[movdqa]

At the takeback, my racquet head is mostly vertical but my left hand isn't anywhere close to it. It's just another one of those things, using my left hand to help turn my shoulders, that I just can't seem to execute. When I try, I can usually get the motion okay but everything after that point disintegrates. It's almost like I lose coordination and timing because of just having my left hand on the racquet during takeback.

Why do you think it's surprising that my groundstrokes are so effective compared to my (terrible) dropshot?

Strokes typically develop somewhat in parallel. The less-often used shots: drop shot, topspin lob, drop volley, lob volley, overhead usually do develop with more play and more observation (of pro matches).

One other suggestion would be to get some more height on the drop shot. I try to get the drop shot at least five feet in the air. You don't have to hit something really close to the net to be effective

Here's my only forehand dropshot video not in a match. It was off a mad scramble but it was more than a tap.

 

[Injured Again]

I think you struggled in that first video with fh drop shot because you attempted it more as a bunt than a stroke. I think good repeatable slices and the drop shots, including variation if that is a goal ... is from strokes with rh speed and follow through.

A couple of thoughts, and context:

I think one of the first things I would decide which both you and @S&V-not_dead_yet mentioned is 1) just an occasional shot ... or 2) regular part of your point construction.

I am in the #2 camp ... have been seen I started playing singles tournaments in my 20s. I had success hitting to targets making opponents hit on the move/run ... and my 1hbh drop shot almost always cc toward the alley was just another available target during a point. It didn't have anything to do with a goal of keeping them closer to the baseline. I seldom use the fh drop shot ... no real reason because I can hit it ... just wasn't part of my pattern.

So in my case using the bh drop shot regularly in point construction and not a couple of times a set, "least UE and good enough" came into play. Hypothetically say I can hit 9/10 bounced twice before service line lower flight drop shots (not to be confused with no arch ... all drop shots need some air). Also assume that is working for me ... winning points moving opponent around. Now assume I can hit a nice high barely over the net with good backspin just over the net ... but I either hit to deep or don't clear the net 4 out of 10. That is no big deal if it's one of your twice a set "keeping them honest" drop shots, but a very big deal if it shows up as high UE in your games and set. My drop shots was such an automatic thing I never thought about it for decades until ttw. I read some comments here ... noted the flashy Fed drop shot ... and tried it with the ball machine. First thought was that was fun ... I can hit this ... did you squirrels see how tight that stayed to the net with all that height and backspin. The problem was just enough variation in depth ... some would have been short of the net, and others just a little to deep allowing the opponent to get there in time for easy shot. Even on my worse lower flight drop shot ... they are almost always hitting a ball very near the court surface.

On disguise ... my opinion that is rated way too high in rec tennis ... particularly when we get to senior tennis. In fairness, I hit every bh (1hbh drive, 1hbh slice, 1hbh drive, 2hbh drive) with a continental ... so I never faced the grip change issue. I also only hit the bh drop shot with a game built around A LOT of 1hbh slice drives ... so the disguise pretty much was built in. When I hit an occasional fh drop shot ... I just prep with racquet high (like S&V @6:28 in his first video above) ... and just hold until last second and hit drop shot.

IMO ... including the entire court as a target area, not just side to side, but front to back is always good in rec tennis ... but WAY GOOD in older guys tennis.

For the "occasional shot" versus "part of the game" question on my part, I have so many fundamental things to work on that I'm hoping to have JUST good enough of a drop shot and to use it JUST enough to prevent my opponents from camping six to ten feet behind the baseline to return my groundstrokes. But because I haven't had either of the JUST's, I don't have a good idea against age group competition what good enough is or how frequent is enough but my experience is that if I can just pull it off once or twice early, and then again just infrequently, that is enough to make my opponents play where they don't prefer. It does vary with the opponent. For some, just the threat of a dropshot makes them change their positioning, and for some others they are willing to concede the dropshot to be more effectively position to neutralize my offense. That complicates the question of how good it needs to be, but maybe it doesn't need to be good enough to affect all of my opponents. I have lost to opponents who call my bluff and make me prove I can repeatedly execute a dropper and I haven't been able to prove I can consistently do that.

So what's the progression to incorporating this shot more often into the game? What cues do you use to think it is an opportunity to hit a dropshot?

 

[Injured Again]

Are you required to wear a mask?

This was during a time when we were required to wear masks when playing. That restriction went away not long after that video, which I think was shot in early March.

 

[Injured Again]

I would be interested in what others think on this ... but imo the main point of the left arm across is ensuring a full unit turn. You have a full unit turn ... look balanced ... what are you missing that you would gain by putting the left arm across?

I guess I just have visions in my head of what Federer does, by using his left hand to hold the racquet at takeback so he can accurately switch grips to a continental for the dropshot. Because I have to twirl and regrab it with just my right hand, I don't always get the grip right and that makes something difficult for me even more difficult.

But maybe as @ByeByePoly says, disguise is over-rated, and what I'm now doing is better and good enough?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I guess I just have visions in my head of what Federer does, by using his left hand to hold the racquet at takeback so he can accurately switch grips to a continental for the dropshot. Because I have to twirl and regrab it with just my right hand, I don't always get the grip right and that makes something difficult for me even more difficult.

But maybe as @ByeByePoly says, disguise is over-rated, and what I'm now doing is better and good enough?

Oh ... yes ... grip change. This is not something I think about since bh always cont ... and east fh. I hit my fh volleys with cont ... I obviously change at some point but never think about it.

As far as when I hit my bh cc drop shot ... tends to be after I hit a deep cc fh. It's just an added option to side to side ... and a long get. If opponent is net challenged ... then drop shot may be anytime, and I might go center to give me passing options. It sounds like you have a good plan just having your drop shot in the bag ... makes your good baseline game that much stronger. One of my friends deuce wide serve was so good and automatic I just gave him the ace down the T everytime. It was always there wide open. He could hit it some ... but I always thought his great wide slice would be even more lethal if his deuce T was also automatic.

 

[movdqa]

So what's the progression to incorporating this shot more often into the game? What cues do you use to think it is an opportunity to hit a dropshot?

If you're inside the baseline, then it's a consideration.

If you're inside the baseline, then your opponent is hitting short shots which means that you can keep him off balance with depth and pace. If you get a bunch of these in a row, then he's going to be on his back foot and likely not expecting a drop shot. I saw a fair number of these kinds of points in the Monte Carlo highlights this week.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Played a bunch of the area finals for the leagues the last few weeks. Gotta say, I have never been a "nervy" player, but apparently now I am. What a fricken performance drain that is! On to sectionals for the 40+ in Tucson, and we have one more playoff for the 18's I think, but no clue at this point.

 

[Dartagnan64]

For the "occasional shot" versus "part of the game" question on my part, I have so many fundamental things to work on that I'm hoping to have JUST good enough of a drop shot and to use it JUST enough to prevent my opponents from camping six to ten feet behind the baseline to return my groundstrokes.

I made the God-mode of all drop shots this week. Playing doubles and my opponents threw up a lob that I went back to the baseline to track. My partner backs up and pokes at it, wafting a sitter back to the opponent at the net. I know the opponent is going to just angle it away shallow CC with his excellent hands so I get on my horse and make for the left net post. Get there just before the ball drops a second time, sweep under it with a slice BH. It pops up slices just over the net, lands in the doubles alley and makes the worlds most wicked sideways bounce so the shocked opponent swings at air.

Probably the best drop shot I've ever made and totally all subconscious.

My advice is don't fuss about drop shots on the FH. Better off learning to hit angled topspin off that wing and deep DTL slice to the BH. But do learn the BH drop shot as it's easier to disguise as the set up looks like a BH slice

 

[ByeByePoly]

Played a bunch of the area finals for the leagues the last few weeks. Gotta say, I have never been a "nervy" player, but apparently now I am. What a fricken performance drain that is! On to sectionals for the 40+ in Tucson, and we have one more playoff for the 18's I think, but no clue at this point.

Congrats on sectionals ... yep ... USTA playoff at all levels will make even a seasoned competitor pucker.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I made the God-mode of all drop shots this week. Playing doubles and my opponents threw up a lob that I went back to the baseline to track. My partner backs up and pokes at it, wafting a sitter back to the opponent at the net. I know the opponent is going to just angle it away shallow CC with his excellent hands so I get on my horse and make for the left net post. Get there just before the ball drops a second time, sweep under it with a slice BH. It pops up slices just over the net, lands in the doubles alley and makes the worlds most wicked sideways bounce so the shocked opponent swings at air.

Probably the best drop shot I've ever made and totally all subconscious.

My advice is don't fuss about drop shots on the FH. Better off learning to hit angled topspin off that wing and deep DTL slice to the BH. But do learn the BH drop shot as it's easier to disguise as the set up looks like a BH slice

My rare fh drop shot happens ironically in doubles ... cc ros near alley on wide deuce serve where server is staying back. Not good play against 20 year olds ... but surprisingly effective in "older" doubles. Friend says "knew we were in trouble when I saw ginsu come out".

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I made the God-mode of all drop shots this week. Playing doubles and my opponents threw up a lob that I went back to the baseline to track. My partner backs up and pokes at it, wafting a sitter back to the opponent at the net. I know the opponent is going to just angle it away shallow CC with his excellent hands so I get on my horse and make for the left net post. Get there just before the ball drops a second time, sweep under it with a slice BH. It pops up slices just over the net, lands in the doubles alley and makes the worlds most wicked sideways bounce so the shocked opponent swings at air.

Probably the best drop shot I've ever made and totally all subconscious.

My advice is don't fuss about drop shots on the FH. Better off learning to hit angled topspin off that wing and deep DTL slice to the BH. But do learn the BH drop shot as it's easier to disguise as the set up looks like a BH slice

Awesome shot!

I disagree about ignoring the FH DS: if my opponent knows I never DS on the FH, he can stay back comfortably. I don't want him to be that comfortable.

And disguise is not a problem for me since I use an Eastern FH and can DS using the same grip: I set up like I'm going to drive the ball and then, as late as possible, open up the racquet face.

 

[FloridaAG]

Approximately 1 year away from eligibility

 

[Dartagnan64]

Awesome shot!

I disagree about ignoring the FH DS: if my opponent knows I never DS on the FH, he can stay back comfortably. I don't want him to be that comfortable.

And disguise is not a problem for me since I use an Eastern FH and can DS using the same grip: I set up like I'm going to drive the ball and then, as late as possible, open up the racquet face.

I think if you've mastered the BH DS, the FH slice to the deep BH corner and the sharp angled FH topspin, then yes, move onto mastery of the FH DS. But I'd rank the other 3 shots farther up my totem pole of import. Especially as someone with a SW FH grip and would have to giveaway moving to a slice grip.

In the end, I can do so much more to win a point off my FH wing, it doesn't need the help of a DS. My BH wing on the other hand wins points by guile. Having a full variety of options off that wing from slices to drop shots to drives is more important to winning points off that wing.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Approximately 1 year away from eligibility

I jumped in early without any notice. You're good.

 

[Injured Again]

Oh ... yes ... grip change. This is not something I think about since bh always cont ... and east fh. I hit my fh volleys with cont ... I obviously change at some point but never think about it.

As far as when I hit my bh cc drop shot ... tends to be after I hit a deep cc fh. It's just an added option to side to side ... and a long get. If opponent is net challenged ... then drop shot may be anytime, and I might go center to give me passing options. It sounds like you have a good plan just having your drop shot in the bag ... makes your good baseline game that much stronger. One of my friends deuce wide serve was so good and automatic I just gave him the ace down the T everytime. It was always there wide open. He could hit it some ... but I always thought his great wide slice would be even more lethal if his deuce T was also automatic.

I'm close to a semi-western so it's a long way back to a continental. I guess I get easily distracted because if I don't grip the racquet just right, it seems to throw off everything when I'm trying to make a touch shot. If I grab it wrong and have to take a full swing, I can seem to compensate well enough. Just another tool I don't have in my war chest...

I think the other problem is that I'm a rhythm player - that's why I suck so badly at doubles. If I hit a deep crosscourt forehand and get a weak reply, my make-rate for that next shot is really high for my level - probably at least 85%, and I can typically hit it well enough to get an outright winner, force an error, or get a weak shot back. So I tend to do that. It seems that for what I need, I have to get my opponent closer to the net so that my forehand crosscourt is more effective, so whatever benefits the drop shot brings me have to be before that penetrating crosscourt forehand.

Why is tennis so difficult?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I jumped in early without any notice. You're good.

If you had any human compassion you would have let him have another year of freedom.

 

[Vanhalen]

Approximately 1 year away from eligibility

I approve your application. Lol

 

[ByeByePoly]

I approve your application. Lol

3500+ ... who knew old could be so popular. They can't wait to get old so they can get in. You have been a ttw ageism influencer.

 

[Vanhalen]

3500+ ... who knew old could be so popular. They can't wait to get old so they can get in. You have been a ttw ageism influencer.

It’s like the Hotel California

 

[FloridaAG]

I approve your application. Lol

I am honored

 

[ByeByePoly]

It’s like the Hotel California

My guess is you were thinking:

"You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave! "

or

"This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"


Which is what I always remember ... but recently listening to the song, this one seems even more on point:

"We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"

 

[Vanhalen]

Perfect! Yes, all 3!

 

[norcal]

"We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"

Said a misty eyed travlerajm while gazing at his 463gm gorilla taped racket after a heartbreaking loss to the young MEP.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Said a misty eyed travlerajm while gazing at his 463gm gorilla taped racket after a heartbreaking loss to the young MEP.

lol ... good one ... I was thinking cell phones and tablets.

 

[ChaelAZ]

3500+ ... who knew old could be so popular. They can't wait to get old so they can get in. You have been a ttw ageism influencer.

Let's not confuse active with popular.
No one is here because they REALLY want to be in the old people thread.
Missery loves company doh.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Let's not confuse active with popular.
No one is here because they REALLY want to be in the old people thread.
Missery loves company doh.

Who is "Miss Ery" and what does she have to do with anything?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Had another choke last night in a play-off match. Felt loose and good in warm up and was (or thought I was) ready to go. First set was tight, but my partner and I were playing well and serving well. I was a bit off on volleys, but made enough to step up and take the first set 7/5. And then...concrete feet and shanks for all. Partner was still playing well and I was trying to feed off that energy and play. Tried deep breathing and refocus tricks, but nothing doing. Went down in the second set 2/6. 10 point tie break was back and forth and I had plenty of opportunities to put us up, but nope. Mental state just had me missing like crazy and physically slow. Down at 9/8 my partner strikes a nice wide paced serve to the ad side, the opponent has to bump it up and it comes right to me to cherry pick an overhead...and I shank it about a foot long with all the front of court open. Seriously disappointed there. Good opponents, and they played more solid tennis through the match than we/I did, so nothing away from them and why they won. So no sectionals in the 18's.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Down at 9/8 my partner strikes a nice wide paced serve to the ad side, the opponent has to bump it up and it comes right to me to cherry pick an overhead...and I shank it about a foot long with all the front of court open. Seriously disappointed there.

Always an awful way to lose. Had that happen recently as the serving partner. Hit a great serve, got an easy sitter return and my partner just airmailed the overhead. Glad it wasn't a playoff scenario.

But that's life. Fortunately in USTA the more you suck the easier the opponents you get to face. So you keep getting opportunities to choke until your stuck in a 2.5 65+ mixed league.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Had another choke last night in a play-off match. Felt loose and good in warm up and was (or thought I was) ready to go. First set was tight, but my partner and I were playing well and serving well. I was a bit off on volleys, but made enough to step up and take the first set 7/5. And then...concrete feet and shanks for all. Partner was still playing well and I was trying to feed off that energy and play. Tried deep breathing and refocus tricks, but nothing doing. Went down in the second set 2/6. 10 point tie break was back and forth and I had plenty of opportunities to put us up, but nope. Mental state just had me missing like crazy and physically slow. Down at 9/8 my partner strikes a nice wide paced serve to the ad side, the opponent has to bump it up and it comes right to me to cherry pick an overhead...and I shank it about a foot long with all the front of court open. Seriously disappointed there. Good opponents, and they played more solid tennis through the match than we/I did, so nothing away from them and why they won. So no sectionals in the 18's.

18's ... probably want to avoid the singles lines.

The most common thing I ran into in doubles is one partner running into a dry spell returning serve. You always knew when the other partner had enough when he said something like "maybe try a lob". No one wanted to lob much on ros other than pushing an opponent back that was too tight to the net ... so your partner was really saying "jeeze ... I have been patient here ... just get the fricken ros in play anyway you can so we have a chance".

 

[Dartagnan64]

18's ... probably want to avoid the singles lines.

The most common thing I ran into in doubles is one partner running into a dry spell returning serve. You always knew when the other partner had enough when he said something like "maybe try a lob". No one wanted to lob much on ros other than pushing an opponent back that was too tight to the net ... so your partner was really saying "jeeze ... I have been patient here ... just get the fricken ros in play anyway you can so we have a chance".

I've been that partner suggesting the lob. Usually i'm the ad returner. So if you have fought off 7 straight "ad in" points only to see your deuce partner airmail another return, you can see where this "maybe you should try a lob" attitude comes from.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I've been that partner suggesting the lob. Usually i'm the ad returner. So if you have fought off 7 straight "ad in" points only to see your deuce partner airmail another return, you can see where this "maybe you should try a lob" attitude comes from.

Oh ... I know where it comes from ... have been the one suggesting before. The worse is when your partner is treed on his ros and that's when your ros drought showed up. Most of us seldom made such a comment because we never needed to question how hard our teammate was trying and he was well aware of the "suck" happening near him. Often best chance was no comment and hope he worked it out. I know I've said ... "I'm going to lob some"

 

[Dartagnan64]

Oh ... I know where it comes from ... have been the one suggesting before. The worse is when your partner is treed on his ros and that's when your ros drought showed up. Most of us seldom made such a comment because we never needed to question how hard our teammate was trying and he was well aware of the "suck" happening near him. Often best chance was no comment and hope he worked it out. I know I've said ... "I'm going to lob some"

Generally i'm pretty dialed in on returns so that's not usually my problem (well except when I'm playing the 4.5 lefty with a wicked kick serve). That may be why people like me on the ad side.

My problem is usually overconfidence on return and thinking I can bash every second serve past the net man. I've definitely been given the "Just hit it crosscourt, dude."

 

[Injured Again]

Wanted to revisit this post where I was working on my forehand drop shot. I did spend quite a bit of time on it and it's better, but I think that probably the time would have been better spent just working on my regular forehand, so for now since I only have so much capacity to spend time on court, I've gone back to tweaking my forehand. Our state's level 2 or 700 point championship is in early August and I'm the baby of the 60's so I'm targeting that tournament. Looks like the national indoor 60's, a gold ball tournament that was held in the same facility a couple of weeks later, is no more. Great timing - right as I become eligible to compete, it goes away.

Anyhow, I've practiced and played with some of my age group peers and I would guess probably 30-40% of the groundstrokes I hit are against a heavy underspin shot. Because I've kind of proven I can hit a faster underspin, some of the guys are giving me a more floating slice that makes me swing harder if I want to generate the same ball speed. Of course, that generates more unforced errors. I believe my peers think it gives them a bit more time to recover to the center of the court if they float it up, and in addition to me probably overhitting that shot more, it adds up in their favor.

Compared to before, I'm trying to just lengthen my takeback by an inch or two, which gives me a longer acceleration path to the contact point. I probably did have this longer swing in the past but old age has given me alligator arms. I now see that my extension past the contact point seems pretty stunted, but I'm not sure if it's worth working on that. These are aggressive but safe swings, so about 70% of my max. I feel it's pretty repeatable at this swing level as long as I get into good position, and the slightly longer takeback has given me a few extra MPH. If I accidentally hit this close to the sidelines, most guys in the 60's aren't able to reach the ball unless they guess, so I think this is enough ballspeed, especially if I can improve my accuracy on the down-the-line drive. I hit a few in this video and it looks like there's enough disguise where it's not totally obvious I'm going to hit it that way.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Excuse the blurry image. I was testing out a wide angle clip-on lens on my phone. Either the lens is dirty or I didn't get it centered. Ugh.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Wanted to revisit this post where I was working on my forehand drop shot. I did spend quite a bit of time on it and it's better, but I think that probably the time would have been better spent just working on my regular forehand, so for now since I only have so much capacity to spend time on court, I've gone back to tweaking my forehand. Our state's level 2 or 700 point championship is in early August and I'm the baby of the 60's so I'm targeting that tournament. Looks like the national indoor 60's, a gold ball tournament that was held in the same facility a couple of weeks later, is no more. Great timing - right as I become eligible to compete, it goes away.

Anyhow, I've practiced and played with some of my age group peers and I would guess probably 30-40% of the groundstrokes I hit are against a heavy underspin shot. Because I've kind of proven I can hit a faster underspin, some of the guys are giving me a more floating slice that makes me swing harder if I want to generate the same ball speed. Of course, that generates more unforced errors. I believe my peers think it gives them a bit more time to recover to the center of the court if they float it up, and in addition to me probably overhitting that shot more, it adds up in their favor.

Compared to before, I'm trying to just lengthen my takeback by an inch or two, which gives me a longer acceleration path to the contact point. I probably did have this longer swing in the past but old age has given me alligator arms. I now see that my extension past the contact point seems pretty stunted, but I'm not sure if it's worth working on that. These are aggressive but safe swings, so about 70% of my max. I feel it's pretty repeatable at this swing level as long as I get into good position, and the slightly longer takeback has given me a few extra MPH. If I accidentally hit this close to the sidelines, most guys in the 60's aren't able to reach the ball unless they guess, so I think this is enough ballspeed, especially if I can improve my accuracy on the down-the-line drive. I hit a few in this video and it looks like there's enough disguise where it's not totally obvious I'm going to hit it that way.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Excuse the blurry image. I was testing out a wide angle clip-on lens on my phone. Either the lens is dirty or I didn't get it centered. Ugh.

Love the slow deliberate take back and acceleration to contact. Looks like some good pop. Especially for a 70% shot. Nice improvement.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Wanted to revisit this post where I was working on my forehand drop shot. I did spend quite a bit of time on it and it's better, but I think that probably the time would have been better spent just working on my regular forehand, so for now since I only have so much capacity to spend time on court, I've gone back to tweaking my forehand. Our state's level 2 or 700 point championship is in early August and I'm the baby of the 60's so I'm targeting that tournament. Looks like the national indoor 60's, a gold ball tournament that was held in the same facility a couple of weeks later, is no more. Great timing - right as I become eligible to compete, it goes away.

Anyhow, I've practiced and played with some of my age group peers and I would guess probably 30-40% of the groundstrokes I hit are against a heavy underspin shot. Because I've kind of proven I can hit a faster underspin, some of the guys are giving me a more floating slice that makes me swing harder if I want to generate the same ball speed. Of course, that generates more unforced errors. I believe my peers think it gives them a bit more time to recover to the center of the court if they float it up, and in addition to me probably overhitting that shot more, it adds up in their favor.

Compared to before, I'm trying to just lengthen my takeback by an inch or two, which gives me a longer acceleration path to the contact point. I probably did have this longer swing in the past but old age has given me alligator arms. I now see that my extension past the contact point seems pretty stunted, but I'm not sure if it's worth working on that. These are aggressive but safe swings, so about 70% of my max. I feel it's pretty repeatable at this swing level as long as I get into good position, and the slightly longer takeback has given me a few extra MPH. If I accidentally hit this close to the sidelines, most guys in the 60's aren't able to reach the ball unless they guess, so I think this is enough ballspeed, especially if I can improve my accuracy on the down-the-line drive. I hit a few in this video and it looks like there's enough disguise where it's not totally obvious I'm going to hit it that way.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Excuse the blurry image. I was testing out a wide angle clip-on lens on my phone. Either the lens is dirty or I didn't get it centered. Ugh.

I got through half of it before I realized you weren't going to hit any DSs.

You've got a smooth, repeatable stroke. How well does that translate into a match with an opponent deliberately trying to make life difficult for you? And how's your footwork to achieve the position you want?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Current situation. Getting hot, but still getting in some singles. Tried the scorebard thing to see just how long it would take. Wasn't bad, spending like 4 hours to cut, review, and add the scoreboard in, then about an hour to process and upload in 4k. Pretty big file, but not bad. Figured I would do a whole match instead of highlights, though it is more for me and P's review since I doubt folks will watch the whole match.

Thoughts and comments always welcome.
General hijinx and low blows too.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Current situation. Getting hot, but still getting in some singles. Tried the scorebard thing to see just how long it would take. Wasn't bad, spending like 4 hours to cut, review, and add the scoreboard in, then about an hour to process and upload in 4k. Pretty big file, but not bad. Figured I would do a whole match instead of highlights, though it is more for me and P's review since I doubt folks will watch the whole match.

Thoughts and comments always welcome.
General hijinx and low blows too.

Watched the first two sets. The first set scoreline would have been more like the second but for your errors. You take a pretty big cut at the ball but you can't always control it. And the slices you missed seemed more due to footwork than difficulty of the incoming shot. But when you can control the shots, they look great.

If you can improve your control, you will jump a level or maybe even two. Not sure if the plan is to keep swinging as hard. But if you were to modulate that a bit, the drop in errors might be noticeable.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Current situation. Getting hot, but still getting in some singles. Tried the scorebard thing to see just how long it would take. Wasn't bad, spending like 4 hours to cut, review, and add the scoreboard in, then about an hour to process and upload in 4k. Pretty big file, but not bad. Figured I would do a whole match instead of highlights, though it is more for me and P's review since I doubt folks will watch the whole match.

Thoughts and comments always welcome.
General hijinx and low blows too.

This is the opposite of pusher tennis. This is how my wife likes to play tennis. Big cuts, every ball is a winner opportunity, "point construction" is for sissies tennis.
I think both player could try to take a little off the swings and hit more consistently into the corners. There's a bunch of great shots in there mixed in with an effusive number of UE's.

Not saying I endorse pusher tennis. But I think the next evolution for both players is to get a little less anxious and build the points or set up the winner opportunities better.

 

[PKorda]

This is the opposite of pusher tennis. This is how my wife likes to play tennis. Big cuts, every ball is a winner opportunity, "point construction" is for sissies tennis.
I think both player could try to take a little off the swings and hit more consistently into the corners. There's a bunch of great shots in there mixed in with an effusive number of UE's.

Not saying I endorse pusher tennis. But I think the next evolution for both players is to get a little less anxious and build the points or set up the winner opportunities better.

Lol at equating pusher tennis to constructing a point

 

[Nostradamus]

Seniors, at what age do you think you can no longer serve 100 mph ?

 

[Dartagnan64]

Lol at equating pusher tennis to constructing a point

I didn’t really mean to equate the two. Constructing a point is in between pusher tennis and ball bashing tennis. That’s where I was trying to go with my comment. Merely suggesting they turn the dial in that direction, not go all the way there.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Seniors, at what age do you think you can no longer serve 100 mph ?

I rarely hit 100mph anymore and haven't consistently hit towards 100 for that last 4 or 5 years I think. Some of it is the need to balance exertion, but also my range of motion isn't all that great. I think serving 100mph isn't anything super special, but needs someone who keeps up wtih strength and conditioning, as much as stretching and flexibility.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Seniors, at what age do you think you can no longer serve 100 mph ?

What's the answer if I never could hit 100mph?

 

[Injured Again]

I got through half of it before I realized you weren't going to hit any DSs.

You've got a smooth, repeatable stroke. How well does that translate into a match with an opponent deliberately trying to make life difficult for you? And how's your footwork to achieve the position you want?

So far, it has come down to whether I can get a good first swing or my opponent can move the ball around enough so I can't hit forcefully without making lots of UEs. Against the top guys, once I get a good swing in, I'm hopeful I will win the majority of points so it's a matter of figuring out how I can get that good first swing in. This little bit of extra extension on the takeback has really helped me significantly in generating consistently high pace against slow balls. With what feels like the same effort, it seems like I've gotten a few extra MPH and about 10-20% more consistency. And once I do get that first swing in, I feel like I will have control of the middle of the court and hopefully my opponent will be the one doing most of the moving from that moment forward.

I've also started scooting my neutral position about a foot towards my backhand corner. I want to try and shrink the court if they're going to try and keep a ball off my forehand. I'm feeling more confident now that someone trying to take one of my inside out forehands down the line with pace is having to take a pretty big risk of making an error. If my opponent gets it there but with not that much pace, I've also been working on a short angled crosscourt forehand that I'm getting more consistent on hitting from my forehand corner into the corner of the serve box. That's a long run for a 60 year old.

As for the drop shot, it feels like it's taken much less effort to strengthen my forehand versus how much benefit I was getting from trying to improve my forehand drop shot. Because I hit so few forehand drop shots, I've realized that if I try and hit one in a pressure situation, it's probably going to go poorly more often than not. In any event, because I'm not reaching way out to the side to try and hit the dropper, I more consistently make good contact, even if the shot isn't shorter in the court. At least I don't miss badly as often and I'm hoping that the few I try look competent enough to pressure my opponent play to closer to the baseline where I feel my groundies will be more effective.

We'll see! Our state tournament starts August 2nd. It's a level 2/700 point tournament and I'm really targeting it, especially since the national 60's indoors which was last held here in 2019, is no more. I've got to find some other age group tournaments to play beforehand so I can get some reps against guys my vintage. Otherwise, I'm sure I'll put so much pressure on myself that I'll choke it. There are many days I feel like I've got a great plan until I get hit in the face, and then everything will fall apart. Just trying to avoid getting my nose broken...

 

[Injured Again]

Thoughts and comments always welcome.

I'm always envious of people who can play well outdoors with a cloudless blue sky like that. I have a bit of blue/green colorblindness, and the start of cataracts. I can't judge distance well outside and there are some angles where the sun shines sideways into my eyes that creates an almost blinding fog that makes it really hard to see the ball. The last two losses I've taken in outdoor tournaments have been to guys who found out I can't hit an overhead against a blue sky so every time I got them into trouble, they threw up a lob.

What tricks of the trade do you have for being able to hit overheads outdoors?

 

[Injured Again]

Seniors, at what age do you think you can no longer serve 100 mph ?

I'm playing 60's this year and when my shoulder is healthy, I can still rush it up there in the low 100's but only with a serve percentage probably around 20-30%. It's still useful - just having my opponent know I can do it can make them adjust their receiving position in a way that I can take advantage of. If I can get them to back up just a couple of feet from where they prefer to return, I feel like I've increased my ability to hold serve by a sizeable margin.

I don't know that I've ever seen a player in the 65's hit 100 MPH, but if I don't hurt anything, I hope to still be able to get close in five years.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I'm always envious of people who can play well outdoors with a cloudless blue sky like that. I have a bit of blue/green colorblindness, and the start of cataracts. I can't judge distance well outside and there are some angles where the sun shines sideways into my eyes that creates an almost blinding fog that makes it really hard to see the ball. The last two losses I've taken in outdoor tournaments have been to guys who found out I can't hit an overhead against a blue sky so every time I got them into trouble, they threw up a lob.

What tricks of the trade do you have for being able to hit overheads outdoors?

Well, it looks sunny and good, but this was a 6:30a match and hit 80 degrees quick, and in a few months even playing that early will still be in the 90's, so there is a trade off for sure! Still would rather play outdoors anyway, no matter cold or hot.

That was about the only overhead I have hit well in a while. I have terrible vertigo, so I miss so many overheads, or just dink them because I can only look up a little bit because if I tilt my head back any I get totally disorientated. I used to LOVE them, and just use the off arm out front and high to judge the hitting point. That helped me keep the ball in front of me and not get too far under it. Then I could move forward into the overhead. But I have nothing special there. I have to wear a hat pulled down pretty tight to help with the sun, over even with our bright lights at night. I miss tons because of both, even with the hat. That glare and age is not fun.