LuckyR
Legend
Sorry to hear that. Have you had previous shoulder issues in that shoulder? What stroke did the damage? Do you do strength training?
Seniors lounge (over 65 - 85) come on in.
- Thread starter tanventure
- Start date
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Having played tennis with @Injured Again ,my observation is that he is a sturdy, strong guy and most likely above most his age-group peers in strength.
It allows him to hit hard, but it also allows him to get away with sometimes using less of his kinetic chain than other people and still hit hard. I wonder if this contributed to his shoulder injury.
It allows him to hit hard, but it also allows him to get away with sometimes using less of his kinetic chain than other people and still hit hard. I wonder if this contributed to his shoulder injury.
i find it difficult (impossible?) to play back to back (tough) matches in one day, and would struggle even more if i went further (eg. 2 tough matches per day, in consecutive days)... i think i'd prefer to bow out than risk injury and i'm in my 50's... gl to you!
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
I’d spend the sawbuck or whatever it costs to visit a physical therapist that works with athletes to test you for rom and flexibility. They can tell you where to are most likely to injure yourself and give you advice on how to avoid it.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Long story but my wife and I went on a trip from early January to early February. My rotator was already sore beforehand so on our trip, where I had access to a gym nearly the entire time, I worked out for a couple of hours each day but decided not to do anything overhead to let the rotator heal.
It worked! Right before we returned, I did some overhead presses and the shoulder felt great. We were coming off an 18 day Antarctic cruise so we had three plane rides totaling 19 hours in a 26 hour span to get home. That totally wiped me out and so even though we got home on February 6th, I didn’t feel anywhere near okay to play tennis for about five days.
I was supposed to play a USTA match not long after, and had the tournament one week after that. Trying to ramp everything back up that quickly made my rotator sore again. I tweaked it lightly before the USTA match and didn’t play it, and was thinking of pulling out of the tournament but ended up missing the withdrawal deadline so I went.
I ended up trying to hit an overhead too hard that was a bit over my left shoulder. Instead of swinging forward, I internally rotated my arm and swung counterclockwise in front of me, basically just trying to angle the ball off to my right. That was successful but the deceleration from the internal rotation tore my rotator. After that, I couldn’t serve or hit a topspin backhand without significant pain, and whenever I reached in front of me like when volleying, my hand would get weak and uncoordinated.
I retired injured, I think for the third time in my last five tournaments. I didn’t play any tennis for a week but did a lot of rehab every day. I’m now 15 days out and with approval from my physical therapist, have just started serving again. Groundstrokes and volleys have been pain free for about five days. I shot some video yesterday and I’ll post that tomorrow.
My main problem is I just don’t have a filter in tournament play. I try to do, and maybe overdo, things and get hurt. It‘s the mental discipline that I need to work on, to play only as hard as I need, rather than to get wide eyed and want to give a ball a huge rip when I don’t need to.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
I have had problems in that shoulder for a fairly long while. I think it’s just worn out from a lifetime of throwing and overhead sports.
I strength train a lot, which my physical therapist thinks may be a part of the problem. I have more force generating capability than my ligaments, tendons, and smaller muscle groups can tolerate. So I’m going to spend the rest of this year trying to shore those up, so that in 2026 I can be ready to play the 65’s as physically as I am able to.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
My body can tolerate four consecutive days of hard singles practice, but there I’m able to contain myself and not go beyond 90%. It that 90-100% that injures something or another.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Flexibility, resilience, and strength training, in that order.
Resilience is the part I am concentrating on with the help of my PT. It’s the concept of repeatedly working joints, tendons, and ligaments in a controlled manner through ranges of motion that would be injurious if they happened suddenly.
An example of that would be the motion that popped my rotator - an extreme internal rotation with my upper arm nearly vertical. I’m doing that motion now using bands that create force to extend the range of movement, and also to provide a resistance to build strength.
I’ve been doing this for other large body parts like my back and hips with excellent success. I rarely ever tweak those even though I sometimes get into awkward positions when I lose balance. Now I have to do the same for all these little muscles in and around my shoulder.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Here's some video from yesterday - let me know what you think about my biomechanics. I definitely look older every year. There's not the fluidity of even a slightly younger person, and I seem to have the alligator arm syndrome more and more on my forehand - there's no extension forward through the contact point like I had a few years back and even when healthy, I can't hit it as hard as I used to.
After the injury, backhands hurt from the contact point forward. They are painfree now and actually my backhand seems to have been the least affected by the rotator cuff injury and from aging in general. I seem to have better extension through the ball than my forehand, though my timing window is a lot narrower and seems to get smaller with every passing year. Also, because I've had an aching rotator the last few months and have hit underspin more, that shot is better now than last year. I feel confident hitting it with more spin and with less margin over the net. But so many 65+ guys are only hitting underspin that I feel I can use the topspin to my advantage, especially since I hit more RPMs than on my forehand side.
Serving still doesn't feel great. I'm still actively protecting my shoulder by reducing the amount of external rotation, and so the amount of racquet drop I get is none to minimal. I am almost feeling like this is a habit now and something I will need to undo to get back the top end of speed and spin I used to be able to generate. I've lost about a foot of racquet drop compared to a video I made in 2019 when I was part of the Pure Strike racquet test. The last two serves from that video were what my second serve looked like when I could bounce a dead ball machine ball about four feet high and a new ball at least five feet high. Now I'm probably barely able to bounce a new ball four feet high.... Getting old sucks.
Current serves:
and from 2019:
So like I said in one of my posts from yesterday, I'm going to try to spend the rest of this year building back as much flexibility as I can. If I can't get there and how I now swing the racquet is the best it will ever be, then I'll just have to use what I got. Any and all comments/help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
oldie vs oldie rule: fastest oldie wins
Being fastest oldie is like being tallest Chihuahua, but the range is “you call that running?” to “how did you make it to the court from your car?”.
Hope this helps
Just turned 67 … and still need no help getting to the court with some directional assistance
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
LOBALOT
Legend
Dude you look fantastic!!!!!
Keep at it!
I still do not have clearance after my knee surgery to hit until April although I plan on cheating with some light straight ahead hitting the week after next while traveling with my son's college team on their Spring break trip. It will be the first time swinging a racquet since September.
Last edited:
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
@ByeByePoly My most exception skill at my age group level is my ability to retire injured! I have one of those "demotivator" pictures from a couple of decades ago that says "Winners never quit, and quitters never win. But if you never win and never quit, you're an idiot..." My competitive tennis journey these last couple of years feels exactly like that.
@LOBALOT Keep at it with your knee! I'm now about 15 months post-left knee replacement and my movement is practically as good as it was a few years ago, before I first tore the meniscus in that knee. It is a revelation to not have constant knee pain in my normal life, and I hope that is the same outcome for you.
I did some light serving today concentrating on increasing the racquet drop and it feels really uncoordinated. I can get the racquet to drop deeper without complaint from my rotator, but I can't seem to get up to the contact point with any kind of reasonable timing. It feels like it takes way longer than it should to hit the ball, and because of that my contact point is too low. I couldn't seem to get the timing correct when starting the motion sooner, and I caught one ball high on the tip of the stringbed which did not do my rotator any favors. There's also an uncoordination with shoulder rotation due to the deeper drop so a few times I kind of spun into the serve, which resulted in a pretty bad position for my rotator at contact.
I re-measured my racquet and am thinking about trying a lighter weight. The racquet is a Babolat Aero 112, which I've weighted up to 340 grams with 347 swingweight. It feels good on swing initiation but maybe it's too much mass to decelerate as I get older? I'm also making better contact so I'm thinking of going back down to a 100 square inch headsize. Maybe a vcore or ezone 100 plus since I like to hit middle-high on my stringbed. Those would decrease my swingweight by about 4% in stock form.
And on the forehand, I'm more upright than I used to be. I used to bend my knees more when I was younger, and being lower and wider might give me better balance to swing more through the ball.
I also shot some volley videos and see problems there too. After I hurt my rotator, I had no grip strength or coordination when I extended my hand out in front, like when volleying. And in the last few months, it's been sore so I likely started compensating for it by not hitting my volleys in front as much as I should, and also getting my forehand volley too far out to the side. That position feel less demanding on the rotator but decreases racquet control.
What do you guys do? I have a tough mental time accepting that I can't return to doing things in a more biomechanically appropriate way, but at some point I know it is inevitable. How do you keep playing at a high level, and how do you know what things to compromise to enable you to do that? What facets of swinging the racquet do you give up and what makes you decide to do that?
@LOBALOT Keep at it with your knee! I'm now about 15 months post-left knee replacement and my movement is practically as good as it was a few years ago, before I first tore the meniscus in that knee. It is a revelation to not have constant knee pain in my normal life, and I hope that is the same outcome for you.
I did some light serving today concentrating on increasing the racquet drop and it feels really uncoordinated. I can get the racquet to drop deeper without complaint from my rotator, but I can't seem to get up to the contact point with any kind of reasonable timing. It feels like it takes way longer than it should to hit the ball, and because of that my contact point is too low. I couldn't seem to get the timing correct when starting the motion sooner, and I caught one ball high on the tip of the stringbed which did not do my rotator any favors. There's also an uncoordination with shoulder rotation due to the deeper drop so a few times I kind of spun into the serve, which resulted in a pretty bad position for my rotator at contact.
I re-measured my racquet and am thinking about trying a lighter weight. The racquet is a Babolat Aero 112, which I've weighted up to 340 grams with 347 swingweight. It feels good on swing initiation but maybe it's too much mass to decelerate as I get older? I'm also making better contact so I'm thinking of going back down to a 100 square inch headsize. Maybe a vcore or ezone 100 plus since I like to hit middle-high on my stringbed. Those would decrease my swingweight by about 4% in stock form.
And on the forehand, I'm more upright than I used to be. I used to bend my knees more when I was younger, and being lower and wider might give me better balance to swing more through the ball.
I also shot some volley videos and see problems there too. After I hurt my rotator, I had no grip strength or coordination when I extended my hand out in front, like when volleying. And in the last few months, it's been sore so I likely started compensating for it by not hitting my volleys in front as much as I should, and also getting my forehand volley too far out to the side. That position feel less demanding on the rotator but decreases racquet control.
What do you guys do? I have a tough mental time accepting that I can't return to doing things in a more biomechanically appropriate way, but at some point I know it is inevitable. How do you keep playing at a high level, and how do you know what things to compromise to enable you to do that? What facets of swinging the racquet do you give up and what makes you decide to do that?
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
on average, How many times a week do you guys play or can play without worrying about getting injured ? and how many hours of injury preventing workouts or weight training do you guys do per week on average ? if any
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
on average, How many times a week do you guys play or can play without worrying about getting injured ? and how many hours of injury preventing workouts or weight training do you guys do per week on average ? if any
You will have to be more specific with @Injured Again … he doesn’t believe there are injuries.
He is TW‘s black knight
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
what you talking about ? he gets injured every other day
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
LOBALOT
Legend
on average, How many times a week do you guys play or can play without worrying about getting injured ? and how many hours of injury preventing workouts or weight training do you guys do per week on average ? if any
I was playing 5 times a week for the past few years. Ironically my injury prevention routine is the same as my St. Paddy's day routine
No one over 40 should play 2 matches in one day. In addition, all amateur tourneys and leagues should use a 10 point match tie break in lieu of a full 3rd set. Two full sets followed by a 10 point breaker is usually around 2 hours of tennis and that's plenty to decide an amateur match.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
I can practice hard singles for five 90 minute sessions per week. I can play sets maybe three times a week. I’m in the gym for an hour four times a week. And I do other training about 8-10 hours a week. Hoping to hike Half Dome this summer with my son, two weeks in the Banff area in August with my wife, and doing most of the W loop in Patagonia next February so most of those hours are building aerobic fitness.on average, How many times a week do you guys play or can play without worrying about getting injured ? and how many hours of injury preventing workouts or weight training do you guys do per week on average ? if any
With this workload, eating and sleeping are the two things I do most when I’m not physically doing something.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
It’s also his tw name … but his actions scream injury denial
Injury denial, aging denial, losing hair denial…. I’m good at all of them!
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
On another note, I demo’ed both the Vcore 100 and Ezone 100. Of these, neither has the pocketing and club-like feel of my Aero 112 but the Ezone is much better than the Vcore. It’s not good enough to make the switch though.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I see the stairs to the 2nd floor exercise equipment three times a week … I have to pass it on the way to the pickleball courts. Probably why I have hair … avoided gyms and jogging.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I’m 56 and don’t like the 10-point TB at all - always prefer to play full sets to decide the outcome of a tied match. We play 10-point TBs only if there is a time availability issue or if a tournament/league mandates it. After you’ve been playing for 90 to 120 mins, why have 10 minutes of TB play dictate the match outcome when it is not that much more physical to play for another 30-45 mins.
I also don’t see a problem of a weekend tournament dictating playing two matches a day for two days max even for older age groups. Most fit people can do it. If you have only one match a day, you have to play tournaments over two weekends and that is not good for a lot of participants due to availability issues and probably there will be fewer signups.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
WOW, you must have Djokovic like body
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
I have played tennis with him.WOW, you must have Djokovic like body
He looks like a shorter and older version of Djokovic with more meat on his body and diet, darker but less hair, less flexibility, less power, more hiking, a one hand backhand and a mellow attitude.
agree, but all tourneys (regardless of age), given time constraints (eg finish in a weekend), require it.. unless there's only 4 people in the draw...
as i guy that formerly relied on attrition to win, i agree, tennis should favor the fit... but the 10pt tb usually has to do with lack of free court time... tourneyDir's don't want matches lasting 3h - my longest was 3h 15m i think... i lost
kudos to you for still being able to play 2 matches a day... can't imagine playing back to back 2h+ hard matches, then follow it up again the next day with a similar effort... was not a problem in my 20's and 30's... but now i'm concerned about injuring myself
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Might not be a similar effort on the 2nd day as definitely there is a decline in the caliber of footwork and play - but, usually the opponents on the 2nd day are suffering a same fate too if it is an age group tournament.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
The problem with two singles matches in a day is if that person is also playing doubles. Most tournament organizers will try to accommodate that but if there are large draws in both singles and doubles, potentially playing three full sets in three matches is not reasonable. I don't think they allow that even for current ATP and WTA pros, so the expectation should also be that age group players should also not have to do that. Once in an intraclub tournament, I had to play 11 matches in four days. Fortunately, that was when I was only in my early 50's but it took me about a month for everything to stop hurting.
That being said, I am not in favor of no-ad plus a 10 point third set tiebreak. If you're doing a 10 point third set, it should be ad scoring. I like the condensed pressure of a 10 point third set tiebreak - it favors the player that understands their game the best, and who can execute best after two sets of learning your opponent. That's usually not me but I prefer that format anyway.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
WOW, you must have Djokovic like body
No way! I would not want a body like him. I'm currently 5'11" and 190 pounds so I'm more like Taylor Townsend than Novak.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
An older player has to be a masochist to sign up for singles and doubles in a single weekend tournament - most won’t as they don’t want to get ‘Injured Again’!
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
so all the muscles are in your glutes ?
kayak4water
Rookie
68 yo. Played a couple years in junior high school in early 70’s and abruptly quit to focus on lower stress biking and hiking. Have ridden Pacific Coast Hwy (1980) & hiked the Pacific Crest Trail (2000 miles—2015).
Tennis had changed since 70’s. Restart in 2019. Was mainly arming balls on groundstrokes. Started a campaign summer of ‘24 to swing from the ground up and de-emphasize hitting balls—>as many or more swings than hits for now. Quality > quantity
Learning the ATP FH from Rick Macci & Chris Lewit YouTube content. I have played both left and right handed.
Tennis had changed since 70’s. Restart in 2019. Was mainly arming balls on groundstrokes. Started a campaign summer of ‘24 to swing from the ground up and de-emphasize hitting balls—>as many or more swings than hits for now. Quality > quantity
Learning the ATP FH from Rick Macci & Chris Lewit YouTube content. I have played both left and right handed.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
An older player has to be a masochist to sign up for singles and doubles in a single weekend tournament - most won’t as they don’t want to get ‘Injured Again’!
I don't know that there's much difference between a single weekend tournament draw that's smaller, and a week-long big draw tournament like the Wilson. The Washington State open last year had a larger participant count than even the Wilson, and the open men's singles had a 256 person draw. The 60's had a 64 person draw so six matches for the finalists and first round was Thursday.
But in either case, I think that if a compromise can be made that would encourage more participation without hurting the competitive aspect, it should be done. The 10 point tiebreak in lieu of a third set seems to be straddling that compromise. But since I want to compete in singles and see the doubles as more of a fun thing to do with a buddy, I'm happy to do a 10 point tiebreak third set so it doesn't unequivocally wipe me out if I play both.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
I've got big glutes! It's either my personal seat cushion or personal flotation device depending on who you ask.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
So basically you are not a big a-$-$ but you have a big a-$-$.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Not too shabby, but take the racquet back with both hands, especially on the FH.
Congrats!
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Ever tried prostocks? I love the Head TGT 293.1 as per my sig. I got 4, all about 333g with SWs of 325, 331 and 337. You'd love the beefiest one, while I prefer the 325 one, easier to defend with and better feel. Try to get them from Germany at 1/3, max 1/2 the price of the US store($625), still practically new and flawless, all of them.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
That's a lot. Tennis wise I match you(except tournaments), but I only work out 20 min/ daily ( core and strength for my upper body, including straight arm lifting 20LBs that cured my minor elbow twinge. I hear that it might help the rotator as well).
I walk enough, maybe ride a bike occasionally.
Love hiking ( up to 6k), a couple of weeks per year(usually in Europe, but I also have a booking in Banff, Lake Louise this August with my wife). Some Atlas in Morroco next month. Alps(Swiss and New Zealand), Andes in the past.
Keep up the great work!
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Can’t do it! Have tried over the years and doing a two handed takeback wrecks the shot. Same with trying to hold the throat on the backhand takeback. I don’t know why but it makes my swing unwinding uncoordinated.
I figure that the way I am doing things has fewer low hanging fruit than other improvements I could make so I gave up trying to make things look correct.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
I demo’ed an Ezone 100 and Vcore 100. The Ezone was better to me than the Vcore, and while they both hit the ball harder than my Aero 112, they’re also less forgiving. I think at my age, this made me realize I need the forgiveness more than the extra power.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
We’re going to be in the Banff area this August 19-29. We’re doing a hike to the Burgess Shales, and will be doing the Lake O’Hara area primarily since we’ve already done the Banff area hikes in previous visits. It would be cool if you were there at that time and could sneak away for a day so we could get a hit in! I’m happy to bring a racquet if you think you’ll be able to.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
I'll go either Aug 16-23 or in July, Lake Louise Hostel( they have one room with private bathroom.). Hiking at Lake O'Hara is also on my list- thinking also about entering the lottery.
Not sure about tennis in Banff, but how about in Ottawa, or Bucharest, Romania, both on clay and we can host, or in San Francisco?
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
We haven’t been to Bucharest but it is on our list. Of those places, San Francisco is where we go most frequently, every few years. It would be fun if we could make it happen.
I have on my calendar for March 24th to check our lottery status for the Lake O’Hara shuttle days that we chose. So I think if you want to try to reserve a shuttle, do it ASAP as the lottery entry deadline may have already passed.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
I did ty.