September '14: all drug cheats revealed?

Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/22/tennis-open-doping-idUKL3N0KW1KC20140122

Simon Chambers:

The athlete biological passport will be fully effective at the elite level in tennis by September, the International Tennis Federation (ITF) said on Wednesday.

The passport, which uses blood tests to detect the likelihood of doping rather than testing for specific substances, came into operation in the final quarter of 2013 and covers around 50 of the world's top players.
 
Do they do testing on previously collected samples? Is yes then 13 might become much smaller.
 
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This is overrated sadly. There is massive inequality in the testing rigor. I used to be fairly competent in this topic.
Some players are national economic resources. You prepared to fight an entire country?
In order for player X to get busted they and their team must screwed up the doping program where they leave a chemical imbalance within player X when player X arrives at said tournament and is tested.
If the player X and Team X covers all their bases and gets player X chemical makeup balanced it is very unlikely player X is tested positive.
Blood testing or not. It is all about those months before the tournaments getting player X fine tuned.

Now if a team of testers can get the blood sample during those "hidden" months then one might get a positive test. That is not easy to do when players are national resources. Gag orders baby!
 
swordtennis said:
This is overrated sadly. There is massive inequality in the testing rigor. I used to be fairly competent in this topic.
Some players are national economic resources. You prepared to fight an entire country?
In order for player X to get busted they and their team must screwed up the doping program where they leave a chemical imbalance within player X when player X arrives at said tournament and is tested.
If the player X and Team X covers all their bases and gets player X chemical makeup balanced it is very unlikely player X is tested positive.
Blood testing or not. It is all about those months before the tournaments getting player X fine tuned.

Now if a team of testers can get the blood sample during those "hidden" months then one might get a positive test. That is not easy to do when players are national resources. Gag orders baby!
Click to expand...

This sadly. :(
 
I don't have a lot of faith in testing. Lance, Bonds, etc. passed how many hundreds of tests? I'm sure mr. lefty is running state of the art cycles under professional supervision to beat the rap.
 
Agree with statement above, tennis certainly not at the forefront of testing.... Maybe they are truly serious and want some more diversity at the top? Maybe we will see the top guys taper off a little. I for one don't believe the performances seen by a few top players is legit, if they listen to any of the boards the general consensus us tennis is not clean. This might be an attempt at bringing some credibility back to sport and the athletes.
 
Booger said:
I don't have a lot of faith in testing. Lance, Bonds, etc. passed how many hundreds of tests? I'm sure mr. lefty is running state of the art cycles under professional supervision to beat the rap.
Click to expand...

this right here

lot of folks feel that way
 
swordtennis said:
This is overrated sadly. There is massive inequality in the testing rigor. I used to be fairly competent in this topic.
Some players are national economic resources. You prepared to fight an entire country?
In order for player X to get busted they and their team must screwed up the doping program where they leave a chemical imbalance within player X when player X arrives at said tournament and is tested.
If the player X and Team X covers all their bases and gets player X chemical makeup balanced it is very unlikely player X is tested positive.
Blood testing or not. It is all about those months before the tournaments getting player X fine tuned.

Now if a team of testers can get the blood sample during those "hidden" months then one might get a positive test. That is not easy to do when players are national resources. Gag orders baby!
Click to expand...

This X1,000,000

The only reason for this is so sports can "appear" to be tough on drugs without actually doing anything about it.

And by the way, tennis is masterclass at having what appears to be a tough drug testing policy that is in reality a complete farce.
 
Booger said:
I don't have a lot of faith in testing. Lance, Bonds, etc. passed how many hundreds of tests? I'm sure mr. lefty is running state of the art cycles under professional supervision to beat the rap.
Click to expand...

While the Cheaters are usually a step or two ahead of the Dope *****, every so often, the latter catches up momentarily-trouble is, they're usually small fry, in tennis anyway. An exception, of course, is baseball, where, after turning a blind eye to obvious PED use for years, they've managed to snag several players, including the game's highest paid player and a recent MVP. Yet another problem is, not only do they have to get caught, we have to hope the spineless cowards who run tennis would make the information public-see the Agassi cover-up fiasco.
 
dafinch said:
While the Cheaters are usually a step or two ahead of the Dope *****, every so often, the latter catches up momentarily-trouble is, they're usually small fry, in tennis anyway. An exception, of course, is baseball, where, after turning a blind eye to obvious PED use for years, they've managed to snag several players, including the game's highest paid player and a recent MVP. Yet another problem is, not only do they have to get caught, we have to hope the spineless cowards who run tennis would make the information public-see the Agassi cover-up fiasco.
Click to expand...

Why the F*** would the ATP/WTA want to invite scandal and kill their most marketable stars?

There is absolutely no push for tennis to get tough on drugs. The only reason baseball did is because Congress got involved and they had no choice. MLB was LOVING McGuire/Sosa/Bonds/etc and all the attention they were getting.

I'm actually not sure why cycling did what they did, but I bet it wasn't because they "wanted to do the right thing".

How many of the Olympic athletes got caught at the Summer Olympics in London? About zero if I recall. How much noise was made about how great the drug testing was for London? Quite a lot. Professional tennis (and many other sports) are pretty much following the example set my the Olympics. Look tough, but be anything but tough. That's what the public wants, so that's what is delivered.
 
swordtennis said:
This is overrated sadly. There is massive inequality in the testing rigor. I used to be fairly competent in this topic.
Some players are national economic resources. You prepared to fight an entire country?
In order for player X to get busted they and their team must screwed up the doping program where they leave a chemical imbalance within player X when player X arrives at said tournament and is tested.
If the player X and Team X covers all their bases and gets player X chemical makeup balanced it is very unlikely player X is tested positive.
Blood testing or not. It is all about those months before the tournaments getting player X fine tuned.

Now if a team of testers can get the blood sample during those "hidden" months then one might get a positive test. That is not easy to do when players are national resources. Gag orders baby!
Click to expand...

Simply this. Spot on.
 
r2473 said:
Why the F*** would the ATP/WTA want to invite scandal and kill their most marketable stars?

There is absolutely no push for tennis to get tough on drugs. The only reason baseball did is because Congress got involved and they had no choice. MLB was LOVING McGuire/Sosa/Bonds/etc and all the attention they were getting.

I'm actually not sure why cycling did what they did, but I bet it wasn't because they "wanted to do the right thing".

How many of the Olympic athletes got caught at the Summer Olympics in London? About zero if I recall. How much noise was made about how great the drug testing was for London? Quite a lot. Professional tennis (and many other sports) are pretty much following the example set my the Olympics. Look tough, but be anything but tough. That's what the public wants, so that's what is delivered.
Click to expand...

Much truth here.
It had nothing to do with "doing the right thing". It had to do with France, Spain, etc... totally ****ed off butthurt and jealous that they did not bag those 7 titles. And how dare Armstrong be a better doper than our Mega State backed cycling team members!
They wanted those titles or no one was going to have them.
Corrupt and bankrupt ego maniacs.
They did do a witch hunt on Armstrong. All the cylists in all those tour de france were doped to the gills and on a serious doping program.
They just wanted Armstrong outed. America did nothing to back Armstrong which was disgusting. He was a jerk but who is not at this elite level?
 
Do any of you really think ATP will kill their golden geese?

I am not saying they do but even if any of the top 5 players are cheating, don't think ATP will make it public. they might force them to lay off the boost (which might explain why some of the ranked players are losing early / having more injuries - coughhh)
 
^^^^^
Money money money! When they replaced classical economics with neo-classical economics it basically hammered the nail in the coffin for humanity. Went from reality based to what should be and what we want it to be based. The planet does not work that way. The planet sure as sh*t does not depend on stinking humans that is for sure. We depend on Mother Earth. So simple it is stupid.
Moral police delete my thread!!!! Censor Me please!
 
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r2473 said:
Why the F*** would the ATP/WTA want to invite scandal and kill their most marketable stars?

There is absolutely no push for tennis to get tough on drugs. The only reason baseball did is because Congress got involved and they had no choice. MLB was LOVING McGuire/Sosa/Bonds/etc and all the attention they were getting.

I'm actually not sure why cycling did what they did, but I bet it wasn't because they "wanted to do the right thing".

How many of the Olympic athletes got caught at the Summer Olympics in London? About zero if I recall. How much noise was made about how great the drug testing was for London? Quite a lot. Professional tennis (and many other sports) are pretty much following the example set my the Olympics. Look tough, but be anything but tough. That's what the public wants, so that's what is delivered.
Click to expand...

You certainly aren't right about "zero" contestants being caught at London, I remember a picture of a "female" shot putter who won and was stripped of her gold medal, if nothing else, but, more importantly, why would the ATP/WTA want to invite scandal and kill their most marketable stars? Oh, I dunno, how about in order to keep the sport's integrity intact? Attitudes change gradually, in sports, like they do everywhere else. In baseball, for example, there used to be a police-like Thin Blue Line among players, and you almost never heard players blasting cheats. That has changed, the Giants best player a few years ago got banned for 50 games in a year that they ultimately got to the World Series, and his suspension ended when the playoffs began. However, the team voted NOT to allow him to participate in the World Series-which they won, btw-and he was NOT on the team the following season. Already in this off season, I've heard at least twice of players, upon hearing that a player who was suspended for PED, but got new large contracts, ask why cheaters are being rewarded. Clean players have finally come to the realization that THEY are being stained with the same "paint brush" used on cheaters, and they've had it. Will the scum who run tennis come around to this point of view? Well, I ain't gonna hold my breath, I can tell you that, but their hear-no-evil, see-no-evil attitude is one of the reasons, IMO, that tennis is viewed as a second class sport.
 
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cknobman said:
I smell a US Open injury for a certain left handed player.
Click to expand...

I am under the impression the bio passport testing will establish a base line first. So the earliest time it can raise any read flags will probably be months after the start.

So the dopers should double up their doses to catch as many titles as they can right now. :-)
 
moonballs said:
I am under the impression the bio passport testing will establish a base line first. So the earliest time it can raise any read flags will probably be months after the start.

So the dopers should double up their doses to catch as many titles as they can right now. :-)
Click to expand...

That probably explains why a certain someone way past his prime was able to play like it's 2006 again.
 
Check out this new racquet from Pfizer.
tennissyg.jpg
 
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The baselines are already being put in place.

Septmber 14 is when this will be complete.

So if it works then we might see action from September onwards.



moonballs said:
I am under the impression the bio passport testing will establish a base line first. So the earliest time it can raise any read flags will probably be months after the start.

So the dopers should double up their doses to catch as many titles as they can right now. :-)
Click to expand...
 
Bartelby said:
The baselines are already being put in place.

Septmber 14 is when this will be complete.

So if it works then we might see action from September onwards.
Click to expand...

Yes silly of me not reading the link you provided. So even better than I thought!

Now let's guess who will suddenly announce an injury before the USO.

Actually the tournament straddles the Labor Day weekend. I surely hope it will be fully operational by the end of August.
 
dafinch said:
You certainly aren't right about "zero" contestants being caught at London, I remember a picture of a "female" shot putter who won and was stripped of her gold medal, if nothing else, but, more importantly, why would the ATP/WTA want to invite scandal and kill their most marketable stars? Oh, I dunno, how about in order to keep the sport's integrity intact? Attitudes change gradually, in sports, like they do everywhere else. In baseball, for example, there used to be a police-like Thin Blue Line among players, and you almost never heard players blasting cheats. That has changed, the Giants best player a few years ago got banned for 50 games in a year that they ultimately got to the World Series, and his suspension ended when the playoffs began. However, the team voted NOT to allow him to participate in the World Series-which they won, btw-and he was NOT on the team the following season. Already in this off season, I've heard at least twice of players, upon hearing that a player who was suspended for PED, but got new large contracts, ask why cheaters are being rewarded. Clean players have finally come to the realization that THEY are being stained with the same "paint brush" used on cheaters, and they've had it. Will the scum who run tennis come around to this point of view? Well, I ain't gonna hold my breath, I can tell you that, but their hear-no-evil, see-no-evil attitude is one of the reasons, IMO, that tennis is viewed as a second class sport.
Click to expand...

Like I said, about zero Olympic athletes and certainly not any of the big names from the marquee sports/events. But yes, they always catch a few. Even in tennis a few guys get banned from time to time. Not any of the big name players. Just a few sacrificial lambs.

Tennis doesn't have a public image problem with drugs at the moment. The only way they would is if they started outing big name players. Most of the public could care less about tennis. Of those that do care, most people don't believe the players are doping (read the comments on this board).

You're crazy if you think ATP/WTA will start banning their stars for doping. As Swordtennis said in his first post, they more or less bend over backwards to insure they don't catch anyone that isn't just flat out stupid.
 
They are doing this probably because the sponsorship dollar depends on a slightly higher degree of plausibility about the drug free status of tennis.
 
swordtennis said:
This is overrated sadly. There is massive inequality in the testing rigor. I used to be fairly competent in this topic.
Some players are national economic resources. You prepared to fight an entire country?
In order for player X to get busted they and their team must screwed up the doping program where they leave a chemical imbalance within player X when player X arrives at said tournament and is tested.
If the player X and Team X covers all their bases and gets player X chemical makeup balanced it is very unlikely player X is tested positive.
Blood testing or not. It is all about those months before the tournaments getting player X fine tuned.

Now if a team of testers can get the blood sample during those "hidden" months then one might get a positive test. That is not easy to do when players are national resources. Gag orders baby!
Click to expand...

Nadal said he was tested multiple times in December 2012.
Meanwhile Djokovic says he went 7 months without being tested in 2012.
It really depends on the player and how they are treated.
 
kishnabe said:
What if they are right, you going to pay them a grand each. It goes both ways........

They did not agree either. I can't wait for the day Nadal gets caught....like Lance did.
Click to expand...

I'd pay them any sum of money they request if that happened.

Yeah you "can't wait for Nadal to get caught" is the attitude of anyone who accuses Nadal of that. Not exactly objective....
 
NADALRECORD said:
I'd pay them any sum of money they request if that happened.

Yeah you "can't wait for Nadal to get caught" is the attitude of anyone who accuses Nadal of that. Not exactly objective....
Click to expand...

Its all bullcrap anyway. The day the "catch" anyone in the top ten is the day that tennis implodes. So in other words they will never "catch" anyone in the top ten ever. Men or women.
 
Say bye bye to Nadal, Fed, Djoker, Murray, Ferrer once the passport goes into effect. Achievements will completely erased, and we will go back to the GOAT arguments between guys who didn't cheat
 
90's Clay said:
Say bye bye to Nadal, Fed, Djoker, Murray, Ferrer once the passport goes into effect. Achievements will completely erased, and we will go back to the GOAT arguments between guys who didn't cheat
Click to expand...


I really think you and a few others are the most logical on this. And I actually think more and more "bias" fans of one player or another if they really look at things are starting to wake up. I dont know what the future holds. But I do think say compared to 5 years ago more and more fans are becoming suspicious.
 
insideguy said:
I really think you and a few others are the most logical on this. And I actually think more and more "bias" fans of one player or another if they really look at things are starting to wake up. I dont know what the future holds. But I do think say compared to 5 years ago more and more fans are becoming suspicious.
Click to expand...

Its always been VERY suspicious to me. Fed hasn't missed a slam in a decade and rarely had any injuries that set him back for any length. Yea Ive heard the age-old excuse of Fed's "effortless style of play" but the mileage is mileage at the end of the day and Fed has ALOT of it. And there have been a gazillion guys in the past who had effortless style games, and they eventually suffered major burnout and/or injuries that kept them competing for quite a while and having to sit out big tournaments. Guys with even MORE effortless games than Federer

Nadal/Djoker with their 5-6 hour matches and having plenty of gas in the tank to play another 5/6 hour match at the highest level etc.

There's an old saying, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is"

Any time Ive seen Fed/Djoker/Nadal perform, in the back of my head I think Lance Armstrong.
 
90's Clay said:
Its always been VERY suspicious to me. Fed hasn't missed a slam in a decade and rarely had any injuries that set him back for any length. Yea Ive heard the age-old excuse of Fed's "effortless style of play" but the mileage is mileage at the end of the day and Fed has ALOT of it.

Nadal/Djoker with their 5-6 hour matches and having plenty of gas in the tank to play another 5/6 hour match at the highest level etc.

There's an old saying, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is"

Any time Ive seen Fed/Djoker/Nadal perform, in the back of my head I think Lance Armstrong.
Click to expand...

What makes you think Sampras and the rest of the old guard weren't doping?
 
90's Clay said:
Its always been VERY suspicious to me. Fed hasn't missed a slam in a decade and rarely had any injuries that set him back for any length. Yea Ive heard the age-old excuse of Fed's "effortless style of play" but the mileage is mileage at the end of the day and Fed has ALOT of it. And there have been a gazillion guys in the past who had effortless style games, and they eventually suffered major burnout and/or injuries that kept them competing for quite a while and having to sit out big tournaments. Guys with even MORE effortless games than Federer

Nadal/Djoker with their 5-6 hour matches and having plenty of gas in the tank to play another 5/6 hour match at the highest level etc.

There's an old saying, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is"

Any time Ive seen Fed/Djoker/Nadal perform, in the back of my head I think Lance Armstrong.
Click to expand...

Yup I agree. And Ferrer to. That guy is ridiculous.
 
GoaLaSSo said:
What makes you think Sampras and the rest of the old guard weren't doping?
Click to expand...

I am not saying Pete wasnt. No one knows for sure. But if you follow his career path it wasnt much different if any different than most tennis players. He aged quick. Yea he won alot of slams but he was pretty much done at 30. These guys aint even close to being done.
 
GoaLaSSo said:
What makes you think Sampras and the rest of the old guard weren't doping?
Click to expand...


Sampras had his major share of his injuries , his stamina was HORRIBLE compared to these guys today (He did have Thalassemia Minor of course) and he had to miss significant time off tour ( missing quite a few slams in his career). And Pete's game was more effortless than Fed's is.

Whatever the hell Pete would have been on, I wouldn't want any of it:-D

Maybe some were doping (obviously guys like Korda were) but Im sure its nothing like what guys have access to today where they are essentially physical Cyborgs.

Top guys in previous era's were actual humans. (burn out, long match destroying them physically for the next round, needing to pull out of big events due to various injuries etc) . Unlike today

Obvious top guys get injured and have to miss time today, but like Nadal for instance, hes gone 7-8 months, comes back for a month than all of sudden dominates again and gets back to #1 in a second. And as noted, whens the last time Fed missed a slam? How did Nole go from being unable to deal with heat to turning into Cyborg RoboCop Nole in just a few months?
 
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