Serena a better clay courter than Henin

cuddles26

Banned
Serena Williams is really a better clay courter than Henin. Serena right now should have 4 French Opens and Henin only 1. Lets break it down:

2002 French- Serena won

2003 French- Justine won only by cheating. Serena is the real French Open winner of 2003.

2005 French- Kuznetsova choked away a match point in the 4th round. Henin should have been gone and 1 of Kuznetsova, Sharapova, or Petrova winning that years French over choking Pierce in final.

2006- Justine legitimately won

2007 French- Justine only won since Serena had an off day in the quarters. Serena and Justine both playing their best Serena would always win even on clay.

2009 French- Serena should have won. She choked in the 3rd set vs Kuznetsova.
 
She did not lose in 2003. She was cheated out of the French Open title by a cheating Henin. The funny thing is Henin played one of her best matches ever and Serena far below her best and Serena still would have beaten Henin on CLAY without Henins cheating.
 
She did not lose in 2003. She was cheated out of the French Open title by a cheating Henin. The funny thing is Henin played one of her best matches ever and Serena far below her best and Serena still would have beaten Henin on CLAY without Henins cheating.

Very true. Unfortunately, Serena was unable to maintain her 2002-2003 level on clay, and Henin did -- therefore Henin is clearly better on clay. Serena had plenty of opportunities, and would have won the French in 2004, 2008, 2009, and probably at least once from 2005-07 if she had maintained her 03 French form.

However, would have, could have, should have = DIDN'T, and that's why Henin is a clay court legend while Serena has only one French.
 
First of all as for the 2003 French. One point doesn't cost an entire match, Henin was keeping up with and outplaying Serena most of the way, as for the cheating, yes it was disgusting but Serena still could have won that match so don't say that one point cost her because it didn't.

As for the 2002 French Serena had a god awful draw to the final and still had to struggle against Zvonareva, back than nothing more than a journeywoman, and than needed Capriati to choke just to get to the final against Venus (I won't even go into detail about the pathetic draw Venus had to the final, lets just say it was a joke).

2005, Sharapova or Petrova...Petroba maybe...Sharapova not on your life sorry. Kuzzy back than was not ready to be a slam champion and got some ridiculous luck to win the 2004 US Open, she was not ready for the big time so the choke was expected, if we're going to play that game than Serena's Aussie Open this year is not legitimate because Kuzzy choked serving for the match there and should have won, two can play that game.

2007 French Justine beat the tar out of Serena fair and square, off day or not Serena wasn't winning that match because Justine was playing well.

2009 French...coulda woulda, she choked, she lost. Thats that, she lost the lead, like that never happens in womens tennis, I couldn't even begin to list the number of times its happened. Kuzzy captilized for once in her life, and Serena was playing pretty poorly, she needed like 10 match points to get past Zakopalova in the first round, and almost lost to Martinez Sanchez in the third, Serena was playing terrible on clay this year going into the french to (0-3 going into Roland Garros), so yeah Serena really was a giant question mark who was only on the list of favorites because of how poor the rest of the tour is.

As for Serena being a better clay courter than Henin...thats like saying Lori Mcneil is better on grass than Steffi Graf or Kathy Jordan is better on grass than Navratilova....just a bad joke.
 
First of all as for the 2003 French. One point doesn't cost an entire match, Henin was keeping up with and outplaying Serena most of the way, as for the cheating, yes it was disgusting but Serena still could have won that match so don't say that one point cost her because it didn't.

Reality check. Henin only outplayed Serena in the 1st set. Serena had been outplaying Henin throughout the 2nd and 3rd sets until that hand at 4-2, 30-0 Serena serving. With Serenas serve up 30-0 it seemed clear she was on her way to holding for a 5-2 lead before the hand. Pretty unlikely Henin is going to come back from 5-2 down to beat Serena, especialy with her own shaky serve and Serena outplaying her for almost 2 full sets at that point. Yes given the time around that hand came on it was Henins only prayer to stay in the match, to get Serena rattled and prevent her a first serve.

As for the 2002 French Serena had a god awful draw to the final and still had to struggle against Zvonareva, back than nothing more than a journeywoman, and than needed Capriati to choke just to get to the final against Venus (I won't even go into detail about the pathetic draw Venus had to the final, lets just say it was a joke).

She did not struggle vs Zvonareva. She lost a set but won the last 2 sets 6-1, 6-0. Some struggle, LOL! As for Capriati, Serena made 81 unforced errors and still beat the defending French Open Champion.

2005, Sharapova or Petrova...Petroba maybe...Sharapova not on your life sorry. Kuzzy back than was not ready to be a slam champion and got some ridiculous luck to win the 2004 US Open, she was not ready for the big time so the choke was expected, if we're going to play that game than Serena's Aussie Open this year is not legitimate because Kuzzy choked serving for the match there and should have won, two can play that game.

Kuznetsova had match point vs Henin. She made an easy unforced error. One good point and she has won the match and Henin is out of the French Open. Regardless if you think Sharapova or Kuznetsova can win the French Open one of them probably does as Petrova is owned by both players even on clay, and Pierce wouldnt beat anyone the way she played that final.

Kuznetsova did not choke vs Serena at the Australian Open. Serena stepped it up and took it away from her. Notice how everyone keeps saying so and so choked vs Serena. When someone comes back and wins that often it is more than coincidence. Serena simply raises her game and takes matches away from opponents on the brink of victory and did again vs Kuznetsova at the Australian Open.

2007 French Justine beat the tar out of Serena fair and square, off day or not Serena wasn't winning that match because Justine was playing well.

Serenas best beats Justines best on clay or any other surface everytime. Mary Joe Fernandez even said that when Justine and Serena play the match is in Serenas hands. Serenas best is too good for Justine, and she said that before a French Open match so that applies to clay too. That was Serenas match to win or lose, as are all her matches vs Justine and she gave it away.

2009 French...coulda woulda, she choked, she lost. Thats that, she lost the lead, like that never happens in womens tennis, I couldn't even begin to list the number of times its happened. Kuzzy captilized for once in her life, and Serena was playing pretty poorly, she needed like 10 match points to get past Zakopalova in the first round, and almost lost to Martinez Sanchez in the third, Serena was playing terrible on clay this year going into the french to (0-3 going into Roland Garros), so yeah Serena really was a giant question mark who was only on the list of favorites because of how poor the rest of the tour is.

Fact is Serena had that match vs Kuznetsova. She gave it away, Kuznetsova did not win it. The French was Serenas to take and she blew it more than anything else winning it. The end.

As for Serena being a better clay courter than Henin...thats like saying Lori Mcneil is better on grass than Steffi Graf or Kathy Jordan is better on grass than Navratilova....just a bad joke.

Your ignorance is astonishing.
 
So you are all crediting a French Open Justine won by virtue of cheating. That is like crediting a gold medal someone won by taking drugs. Since Justine was unable to beat Serena at the 2003 French Open without blatant cheating that already atleast brings their French Open count to 3 to 2.

Can anyone honestly say if Serena and Justine both play their best tennis on clay that Justine would win.
 
4 >> 1, especially since she beat Serena to win a few.

I might as well make a thread saying Federer is a better clay courter than Nadal.
 
So you are all crediting a French Open Justine won by virtue of cheating. That is like crediting a gold medal someone won by taking drugs. Since Justine was unable to beat Serena at the 2003 French Open without blatant cheating that already atleast brings their French Open count to 3 to 2.

Can anyone honestly say if Serena and Justine both play their best tennis on clay that Justine would win.

Seriously, what the hell is this? This kind of fail at logic just never ceases to amaze me.

Say whatever BS you want. You know you'd choose Henin to play for you on clay if your life was on the line.
 
So you are all crediting a French Open Justine won by virtue of cheating. That is like crediting a gold medal someone won by taking drugs. Since Justine was unable to beat Serena at the 2003 French Open without blatant cheating that already atleast brings their French Open count to 3 to 2.

Can anyone honestly say if Serena and Justine both play their best tennis on clay that Justine would win.

No, but being the best player is about winning when you're not at your best. Clearly Serena hasn't been able to do that on clay, while Henin has.
 
4 >> 1, especially since she beat Serena to win a few.

I might as well make a thread saying Federer is a better clay courter than Nadal.

No comparision. Federer really ought to have 0 French Opens to Nadals 5 right now without Nadals injury this year.

Nadal at his best destroys Federer at his best on clay.

Serena at her best probably wouldnt destroy Justine at her best on clay, but Serena would win everytime with both playing their best.

Federer was certainly not denied a 2nd French Open (and a French Open win over Nadal) by cheating the way Serena was by Justine in 2003.
 
No comparision. Federer really ought to have 0 French Opens to Nadals 5 right now without Nadals injury this year.

Nadal at his best destroys Federer at his best on clay.

Serena at her best probably wouldnt destroy Justine at her best on clay, but Serena would win everytime with both playing their best.

Federer was certainly not denied a 2nd French Open (and a French Open win over Nadal) by cheating the way Serena was by Justine in 2003.

that's not how tennis works. players rarely play "at their best", especially high risk players like serena. players much more often are forced to win when they're not playing their best. and that is where henin >> serena on clay.

case closed.
 
No comparision. Federer really ought to have 0 French Opens to Nadals 5 right now without Nadals injury this year.

Nadal at his best destroys Federer at his best on clay.

Serena at her best probably wouldnt destroy Justine at her best on clay, but Serena would win everytime with both playing their best.

Federer was certainly not denied a 2nd French Open (and a French Open win over Nadal) by cheating the way Serena was by Justine in 2003.

I will freaking shove that BS down your freaking throat......
 
Wasn't Henin already up a break when 'the hand' incident occurred? Even Serena HERSELF has said that that didn't cost her the match. Jeesh. Totally delusional thread.
 
Wasn't Henin already up a break when 'the hand' incident occurred? Even Serena HERSELF has said that that didn't cost her the match. Jeesh. Totally delusional thread.

Wrong. She was down 4-2, 30-0 in the 3rd set with Serena serving. Serena had won 6 of the last 8 games.
 
No comparision. Federer really ought to have 0 French Opens to Nadals 5 right now without Nadals injury this year.

Nadal at his best destroys Federer at his best on clay.

Serena at her best probably wouldnt destroy Justine at her best on clay, but Serena would win everytime with both playing their best.

Federer was certainly not denied a 2nd French Open (and a French Open win over Nadal) by cheating the way Serena was by Justine in 2003.

Nadal just got lucky and Federer wasn't playing his best, at his best Federer would win. I think it should be 4-1 with Fed having 4 RG titles.

*note - I do not actually believe this
 
Wrong. She was down 4-2, 30-0 in the 3rd set with Serena serving. Serena had won 6 of the last 8 games.

yeah, and serena lost b/c she didn't get a first serve on the hand point....(rolling eyes).

serena wasn't mentally strong enough to win the match once the crowd got on her.
 
Nadal just got lucky and Federer wasn't playing his best, at his best Federer would win. I think it should be 4-1 with Fed having 4 RG titles.

*note - I do not actually believe this

Federer at his best would get destroyed by Nadal at his best on clay. Everyone admits that. In fact Federer at his best cant beat Nadal at his best on any surface now.

Henin at her best cant beat Serena at her best on any surface though, not even on clay. Even Mary Joe Fernandez said so.
 
yeah, and serena lost b/c she didn't get a first serve....(rolling eyes).

serena wasn't mentally strong enough to win the match once the crowd got on her.

Do you really believe Justine would have ever come back to win the match had the hand incident not occured though, had Serena been allowed another 1st serve at 4-2, 30-0 and not been rattled by Justines behavior.
 
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Very true. Unfortunately, Serena was unable to maintain her 2002-2003 level on clay, and Henin did -- therefore Henin is clearly better on clay. Serena had plenty of opportunities, and would have won the French in 2004, 2008, 2009, and probably at least once from 2005-07 if she had maintained her 03 French form.

I agree with this. Serena at her 2002-2003 level was way better than Justine on clay. Justine is lucky that Serena did not mantain her clay court level of 2002-2003 since Serena was by far the better clay courter those two years.
 
i love when fans of players come on here and talk garbage about:
- got lucky
- should have
- would have

it makes the poster look like a fool.
 
I agree with this. Serena at her 2002-2003 level was way better than Justine on clay. Justine is lucky that Serena did not mantain her clay court level of 2002-2003 since Serena was by far the better clay courter those two years.

My eyes and brain hurt, not because I saw your avatar but because your posts are a cluster**** of half baked rambles and legitimate backing. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying

"Fed should have 25 grand slams by now because if he didn't have those off days he would've won and if he maintained his level from 2006 then he'd be the undisputed GOAT"

According to you, if "what if" scenarios lend means for a statement or conclusion then I might as well suggest that I would've definately had atleast 9 grand slams right now if I took up tennis 5 years earlier :|

Sorry, ultimate fail.
 
you know if roddick was at his best, he would be on par with nadal and federer. this could also be said about murrey, djokovic, tsonga, etc.

serena would kill henin at her best. the problem is people play on their NORMAL, which is their average skill, and occasionally pulls out their best. some players just happen to pull out their best more often.

you're not wrong, but you're not right either.
 
My eyes and brain hurt, not because I saw your avatar but because your posts are a cluster**** of half baked rambles and legitimate backing. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying

"Fed should have 25 grand slams by now because if he didn't have those off days he would've won and if he maintained his level from 2006 then he'd be the undisputed GOAT"

According to you, if "what if" scenarios lend means for a statement or conclusion then I might as well suggest that I would've definately had atleast 9 grand slams right now if I took up tennis 5 years earlier :|

Sorry, ultimate fail.

There are many players who can beat Federer even at his best.

Clay- Nadal everytime, Nalbandian probably (eg- 2006 French Open semis), Djokovic, Del Potro. Heck he was being outplayed by Haas at this years French.

Hard courts- Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Nalbandian, Safin, can all beat Federer playing his best.

Grass- Nadal, Roddick, Murray, Djokøvic, Safin, and Nalbandian again could all beat Federer playing his best if they play their best and dont choke.


However the only players who have any shot to beat Serena at her best are Venus and Capriati. That is it. Henin has no chance to beat Serena at her best on any surface, not even clay. Henin has no say in their matches, it is all up to Serena. Even Mary Joe Fernandez says so. Venus, Maria, Kim, Capriati, Mauresmo, at their best are all better than Justine at her best too, on any surface.

Anyway I am just talking about playing your best. Henin did not deserve the 2003 French since she cheated and that is the only reason she won that match. Plus Kuznetsova choked when she was 1 point from taking her out in 2005. Justine is lucky to have anymore French Opens than Serena for those reasons.
 
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There are many players who can beat Federer even at his best.

Clay- Nadal everytime, Nalbandian probably (eg- 2006 French Open semis), Djokovic, Del Potro. Heck he was being outplayed by Haas at this years French.

Nadal sure, Nalby I'll give the benefit of the doubt, Djokvic, hells no. Considering how Djokovic's game doesn't translate entirely well into clay, what makes you think he fares well against Fed? Del Potro? He has only beaten Fed once out of their seven meetings. While Del Po's capability to bring fed to a fifth is impressive, it hardly constitutes the idea that Del Po's a better player. Asfor Haas, common logic dictates that the better player that day will win the match, not the other way around...unless it's OPPOSITE DAY!

Hard courts- Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Nalbandian, Safin, can all beat Federer playing his best.

Nadal, is a 50/50 scenario. Sure he won the AO, but plexicushion has been confirmed by players to be much slower, high bouncing AND good on the body, the main reason they swapped rebound ace for it. In other words, its a hard court engineered for Nadal! Murray I can agree on, Djokovic to some degree yes, he's demonstrated it early in the year. But it can be argued that Safin would pwn everyone if he played his best...

Naby on hard? Are you kidding me? The only time when Nalby's a threat is indoors, which accounts for 6% of the season. His performance on outdoor hard is mediocre at best.

Grass- Nadal, Roddick, Murray, Djokøvic, Safin, and Nalbandian again could all beat Federer playing his best if they play their best and dont choke..


No,no and no. Roddick played well at Wimby this year, but that still doesn't mean he's a better grass courter. One performance isn't enough to make a valid conclusion, their 3-0 h2h on grass speaks for itself and a complete thrashing thrown in the mix. Murray, considering how he was taken down by Roddick, then through the distributive property, we can say that Roddick is a better grass courter. And how can you compare Murray and Fed on grass, they have yet to compete on grass let alone wimby. Once again with Djok, Safin and Nalby? You really think that these guys' game is engineered well enough on grass to take out fed? hells no. Nadal is the only 100% valid threat to Fed on grass but of course, if H2Hs are "the ultimate scale to decide whos the better and crappier player" than Fed wins this one.

However the only players who have any shot to beat Serena at her best are Venus and Capriati. That is it. Henin has no chance to beat Serena at her best on any surface, not even clay. Henin has no say in their matches, it is all up to Serena. Even Mary Joe Fernandez says so. Venus, Maria, Kim, Capriati, Mauresmo, at their best are all better than Justine at her best too, on any surface.


Uhhh... you're using Mary Jo FERNANDEZ as a source, that itself discounts your claim. And what exactly is it that lends credibility that Venus, Kim, Capriati and Mauresmo are more capable players at their best?

Anyway I am just talking about playing your best. Henin did not deserve the 2003 French since she cheated and that is the only reason she won that match. Plus Kuznetsova choked when she was 1 point from taking her out in 2005. Justine is lucky to have anymore French Opens than Serena for those reasons.

If Serena was that great of a player, then she wouldn't have let one measly point decide the course of the match. The mark of a better player is superior mental aspects, kuzy coun't muster the mental will to take out henin, that itself suggests the crappier player.

Well, I'm tired of refuting, I'm playing rock band

your move
 
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I like you flyinghippos, that's why I'll give you the advice to not even waste your brain power responding to guys like this. Just a bit of advice, take it or leave it. :)
 
you know, i rather play at a consistent, relatively high level than play a few best-moment-period and play below average for the rest of my matches.

i could be wrong, but i imagine i would win more matches this. i could be wrong...
 
Reality check. Henin only outplayed Serena in the 1st set. Serena had been outplaying Henin throughout the 2nd and 3rd sets until that hand at 4-2, 30-0 Serena serving. With Serenas serve up 30-0 it seemed clear she was on her way to holding for a 5-2 lead before the hand. Pretty unlikely Henin is going to come back from 5-2 down to beat Serena, especialy with her own shaky serve and Serena outplaying her for almost 2 full sets at that point. Yes given the time around that hand came on it was Henins only prayer to stay in the match, to get Serena rattled and prevent her a first serve.

seems, likely, words that have absolutely no concrete proof. Serena could just as easily be faulted for allowing one controlled instance to completely ruin her game, much like that swinging volley that one could argue kept Hantuchova from the 2008 Australian Open final against Ivanovic, stuff happens, a great champion needs to persevere over that stuff.


She did not struggle vs Zvonareva. She lost a set but won the last 2 sets 6-1, 6-0. Some struggle, LOL! As for Capriati, Serena made 81 unforced errors and still beat the defending French Open Champion.

She really should not have needed 3 sets to beat Zvonareva in that match, the fact that she needed 3 sets was very telling considering Zvonareva was a wildcard or something not even in the top 100. Granted Zvonareva was playing well, but even in the last 2 sets Serena was struggling to put a lot of points past her, just because it was 6-1 6-0 doesn't mean it was extremely easy.

Kuznetsova had match point vs Henin. She made an easy unforced error. One good point and she has won the match and Henin is out of the French Open. Regardless if you think Sharapova or Kuznetsova can win the French Open one of them probably does as Petrova is owned by both players even on clay, and Pierce wouldnt beat anyone the way she played that final.

Yes and players never save match points and go onto win a match? It happens, guess what she didn't get the good point and didn't win the match, thats just like saying if so and so had converted all their break points with a winner instead of an error or losing it to a winner they would have won, in the end its a coulda woulda and they didn't, they still lost. She didn't hit a winner and didn't with the match, much like Davenport didn't win convert her one championship point @ Wimbledon in 2005, does that mean we just throw out Venus's win Because Lindsay had a championship point, sorry not thats not how things work.

Kuznetsova did not choke vs Serena at the Australian Open. Serena stepped it up and took it away from her. Notice how everyone keeps saying so and so choked vs Serena. When someone comes back and wins that often it is more than coincidence. Serena simply raises her game and takes matches away from opponents on the brink of victory and did again vs Kuznetsova at the Australian Open.

Kuznetsova was playing phenominal tennis up until serving for the match, gags horribly and than gets clobbered in the next set. When you are playing great tennis and then all of a sudden your level plummets as much as hers did in that match its called choking, just because it doesn't make your favorite look as good to say it doesn't make it so. As for That Australian, Serena likely never gets passed the 4th rd if Azarenka isn't taken ill, Dementieva and Safina both gagged horribly to, most people think so actually.

Serenas best beats Justines best on clay or any other surface everytime. Mary Joe Fernandez even said that when Justine and Serena play the match is in Serenas hands. Serenas best is too good for Justine, and she said that before a French Open match so that applies to clay too. That was Serenas match to win or lose, as are all her matches vs Justine and she gave it away.

Serena was losing matches on Clay to Justine as early as 2001 way before Justine was even in her prime and Serena was already a grand slam champion., Justine has currently a 4-1 clay h2h with Serena or something like that, seems Justine is actually better on clay than Serena. You can say its because Serena isn't fit, had a bad day, or whatever, well to bad for Serena actually, it happens.

Fact is Serena had that match vs Kuznetsova. She gave it away, Kuznetsova did not win it. The French was Serenas to take and she blew it more than anything else winning it. The end.

Much like Kuznetsova gave up the Australian QF against Serena, Capriati gave up the 2002 French open Semi against Serena, at the end of the day gave it away, choking, getting injured and retiring still = losing.



Your ignorance is astonishing

This coming from Somebody who thinks Venus is a top 3 player all time...sorry but I don't really find your gauge very accurate.
 
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How come you guys can spend so much time to reply to such a loser thread...
In my logic..If I would have got training at proper age I would have won 25 GS by now.. What do you have to say cuddles26???
 
Serena Williams is really a better clay courter than Henin. Serena right now should have 4 French Opens and Henin only 1. Lets break it down:

2002 French- Serena won

2003 French- Justine won only by cheating. Serena is the real French Open winner of 2003.

2005 French- Kuznetsova choked away a match point in the 4th round. Henin should have been gone and 1 of Kuznetsova, Sharapova, or Petrova winning that years French over choking Pierce in final.

2006- Justine legitimately won

2007 French- Justine only won since Serena had an off day in the quarters. Serena and Justine both playing their best Serena would always win even on clay.

2009 French- Serena should have won. She choked in the 3rd set vs Kuznetsova.

Are you for real?
 
Serena Williams is really a better clay courter than Henin. Serena right now should have 4 French Opens and Henin only 1. Lets break it down:

2002 French- Serena won

2003 French- Justine won only by cheating. Serena is the real French Open winner of 2003.

2005 French- Kuznetsova choked away a match point in the 4th round. Henin should have been gone and 1 of Kuznetsova, Sharapova, or Petrova winning that years French over choking Pierce in final.

2006- Justine legitimately won

2007 French- Justine only won since Serena had an off day in the quarters. Serena and Justine both playing their best Serena would always win even on clay.

2009 French- Serena should have won. She choked in the 3rd set vs Kuznetsova.

i think someone is in denial
 
Are you sure about it? I mean, wasn't gj011 a Federer hater first, then a Djokovic fan and only then a Nadal fan?

Yeah I am definitely sure. His account has been wiped out and all his posts deleted but I caught him red handed typing a long post that was exactly the same as julesb a couple months ago:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3961597#post3961597

Remember this individual is also a notorious Graf hater (forever bitter towards Graf about the Seles misfortune).
 
Nadal just got lucky and Federer wasn't playing his best, at his best Federer would win. I think it should be 4-1 with Fed having 4 RG titles.

*note - I do not actually believe this

LOOOL thats freaking good humor:lol: sure hope you didnt mean that..
 
There are many players who can beat Federer even at his best.
No. There's one, Nadal on clay and slow hardcours.
Nalbandian could do it too indoors when he's at his absolute best.

Clay- Nadal everytime, Nalbandian probably (eg- 2006 French Open semis), Djokovic, Del Potro. Heck he was being outplayed by Haas at this years French.
Nalbandian doesn't move well enough to beat Federer on clay.
Djokovic and Del Potro have never faced Federer at his best on clay.

Haas has no chance anway, when Federer's at his best he does about everything better.

Hard courts- Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Nalbandian, Safin, can all beat Federer playing his best.
Wrong again, only Nadal on slow hardcourts and Nalbandian on fast indoor courts can beat Federer at his best.
Djokovic can't handle Federer's A+ game, Murray is screwed whenever Federer doesn't miss often, Safin needed his best or second best performance of his career to beat a slightly suppar Federer in 5 sets, and still had to save match-point.

Grass- Nadal, Roddick, Murray, Djokøvic, Safin, and Nalbandian again could all beat Federer playing his best if they play their best and dont choke.
I disagree with everything.

Nadal at his very best needed 5 sets to beat Federer, and that was a Federer who failed to get 80mph second serves into play and shanked a lot of bread-and-butter forehands.

Murray can't even beat Roddick on grass, Djokovic can't move on grass, Safin hates grass anyway, and Nalbandian's serve just isn't good enough on grass, but he'd have a chance on the 90s grass with closed roof.

However the only players who have any shot to beat Serena at her best are Venus and Capriati. That is it. Henin has no chance to beat Serena at her best on any surface, not even clay. Henin has no say in their matches, it is all up to Serena. Even Mary Joe Fernandez says so. Venus, Maria, Kim, Capriati, Mauresmo, at their best are all better than Justine at her best too, on any surface.

Anyway I am just talking about playing your best. Henin did not deserve the 2003 French since she cheated and that is the only reason she won that match. Plus Kuznetsova choked when she was 1 point from taking her out in 2005. Justine is lucky to have anymore French Opens than Serena for those reasons.

When has Serena won her last slam when Henin was in the draw?
I think it was 6 years ago...
 
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