Serena a better clay courter than Henin
- Thread starter cuddles26
- Start date
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
how did, Henin cheat?
<<<<<BTW this thread is filth and garbage>>> kind of like Serena's behavior this year at the US Open>>>>
Djokovicfan4life
Legend
Yeah, I thought Serena won the point were the infamous "hand" incident took place. It really had no effect on the match whatsoever.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Oh, I see. The famous "hand" incident, where Henin asks for a timeout and isn't afforded one. However, how is asking for timeout "cheating"??
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
OP is square as Sophie Ellis-Bextor's head...
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
I saw the 09 match again last week and Kuz had it all over Serena and inevitably put Serena away by breaking her easily to end it. Serena needs to lose weight and improve her movement and forehand.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Great Day!
Today is a truly great day!
Serena and Justine Henin are very evenly matched and this is what makes their matches so much fun to watch. Henin has the edge on clay and Serena "lucky shots" Williams used to have an edge on hard court.
Serena has the best serve in women's tennis but is atrocious at net and her fitness is questionable at times. It's truly amazing how hard she can hit the ball.
Henin being so slight hits the gym and works out too hard. Her small frame makes her vulnerable. Her second serve is attackable. Henin has incredible timing, variety, foot speed and an all court game.
Styles make matches and these two players couldn't be more different. So if you're a tennis fan you should be thrilled to welcome Henin back.
Hopefully, they will play again without too many injuries but even 90% of club players have injuries --that's how tennis is. FYI, Justine has a harder time with Venus, I think.
Today is a truly great day!
Serena and Justine Henin are very evenly matched and this is what makes their matches so much fun to watch. Henin has the edge on clay and Serena "lucky shots" Williams used to have an edge on hard court.
Serena has the best serve in women's tennis but is atrocious at net and her fitness is questionable at times. It's truly amazing how hard she can hit the ball.
Henin being so slight hits the gym and works out too hard. Her small frame makes her vulnerable. Her second serve is attackable. Henin has incredible timing, variety, foot speed and an all court game.
Styles make matches and these two players couldn't be more different. So if you're a tennis fan you should be thrilled to welcome Henin back.
Hopefully, they will play again without too many injuries but even 90% of club players have injuries --that's how tennis is. FYI, Justine has a harder time with Venus, I think.
Last edited:
tacou
G.O.A.T.
your points are valid, well reasoned, and supported by irrefutable evidence.
Wolland
Rookie
You gave me such a laugh here. Could've, shoud've, would've, but didn't! Henin won all those matches fair and square. Henin didn't cheat Serene at the 2003 FO, she won cause she was a better player on the day back then. And this stupidity about Serena having an off day is just ridiculous. Justine dominated in that match, she didn't allow Serena to do anything out there. And Serena, well we all know how vain and superficial she is, just didn't give credit where credit was due. She said that that match was the worst in her career, that she played so badly, but isn't this just the same old excuse she gives after every defeat.
Cyan
Hall of Fame
Elegant_Roger
New User
Read their post again. I don't think they are being serious at all. Read their excuses for the latter years in particular.
blinkinrogue
Rookie
i agree, and serena is a better grass court player than fed and a better clay courter than rafa. happy??
justafa
New User
Agreed. It is OK to cheer for your favorite player, but logic and reason need to be present in arguments like OP is presenting here.
grafselesfan
Banned
ROTFL what a stupid thread. I like Serena more than Justine but this is ridiculous. Justine is far and away the best clay courter of the last decade with no close challengers to that title. Jamesblakefan#, cuddles26, and maybe that Tanya poster are probably the only people who really believe this thread title.
grafselesfan
Banned
Justine's best on clay is much better than Serena's. I have no idea what you think Serena's best is on clay but the only French Open title she won she had 81 unforced errors vs Capriati (her only really tough clay opponent of the tournament) in the semis. Saying Serena's best on clay is better than Justine's would be like saying Justine's best on grass is better than Venus Williams's all time best on grass. The 2003 French Open semis was actually one of the best clay court matches I ever saw Serena play, much better than she played to beat Capriati in the semis the previous year and win her only French, and the only set Justine played her best was the 1st set. The 2nd and 3rd sets she played about 40% as well as she did the 1st set, yet Justine still won in the end albeit with some disgusting cheating which is one of the few things you are correct on. Still Serena and Justine both playing their best on clay would look something like the 1st set of that French Open semifinal or their match in Charleston that same year which Justine won in comfortable straights. Berlin 2002 final was actually also one of Serena's best ever matches on clay and she lost to a pre-prime Justine there too.
justafa
New User
Henin does not cheat. Never did. What is the episode you are referring to?
justafa
New User
Who is this journeywoman Van Roost and what makes her greater than Henin now?
cuddles26
Banned
She was a regular contender for hard court slams in the late 90s and in 2000. She was an extremely hard hitter who suffered through making too many unforced errors vs the top players and the incredibly strong field back then.
egn
Hall of Fame
How can she possible be the greatest. She played most of her time during the Hingis/Davenport reign and never saw a slam semi. WOn 4 small titles. We won't go into this. What Henin did prior to hitting her peak was better than anything Van Roost ever did. The only slam Henin could have won could be her 2003 French Open with her little cheating incident including and she would still have been lightyears ahead of Van Roost.
On the cheating..basically Henin raised her hand to call a break as Serena was serving, Serena saw mid motion and it screwed her up and she shanked it into the net and the judge didn't see Henin's hand raise although everyone else in the world did and Henin basically didn't give two craps and never told the judge she had tried to call a break and Serena saw and took advantage of it to get a second serve out of Serena. It was bad but not as bad as it seems because it wasn't like it was match or break point. Serena just let it get to her and screwed up.
egn
Hall of Fame
REGULAR CONTENDER!!! YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING. Sorry did we watch the same Van Roost.
She made two QFs at the Australian Open where she got beat easily by Mary Joe and Amelie Mauresmo..Mauresmo way pre prime. Nothing like the 03-06 Mauresmo who Henin had to contend with who would win 2 slams in that period. Henin took out the Williams, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Kuzzy, Sharapova, Davenport etc. she actually beat the top competition what did Van Roost do?
cuddles26
Banned
At the 2000 Australian Open she played Capriati in the 2nd round. Capriati is one of the hardest hitters in the womens game yet Van Roost was overpowering her. Even Pam Shriver a big Capriati fanatic admited Van Roost was every bit Capriati's equal in power if not more. The reason Van Roost lost was she made way too many errors and she choked on the big points at the end of the 3rd set when she should have closed the match out. She still lost something like 8-6 in the 3rd and should have won. Had she won that match, well Capriati cruised to the semis and gave Davenport a tough time there, so you can see Van Roost would have been a real threat that year had she gotten past the match which she was unlucky to lose despite beating Capriati at her own power game, and probably would have atleast made the semis.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Capriati is not one of the hardest hitters in the womens game, the Williams, Davenport, Seles, Graf, Pierce, Schultz and quite a few others all hit harder than her.
Well she didn't, and from what I remember about her she failed in that aspect many times. She was not mentally tough in big matches against higher ranked players and thats why she never got near the top 10.
If she had gotten past Capriati she would most likely not have made the Semi's. Her 4th round opponent would have been Patty Schnyder who owned her H2H something 4-1 including 2-0 on hardcourts (both wins in straight sets). Had she somehow managed to get past Schnyder (which I doubt) Her opponent would have been Ai Sugiyama, who was not exactly an easy matchup for her as the H2H at that point was dead even 2-2 (although yes 2-1 on hardcourts but the matches were close), no gaurantee of a victory there.
Also, Davenport beat Capriati 6-2 7-6(4) in the semi's, not exactly that tough a time until about halfway through the 2nd set when Lindsay got a little complacent with Jennifer. Even though Van Roost lead the H2H with Davenport 2-1, Davenports win was a straight set Hardcourts victory, and I doubt the form Lindsay was in at the Aussie that year that Van Roost was going to beat her if Capriati or Hingis (both way better than Roost) couldn't.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Bullsquat. Dont' put crap on my plate. Henin is far and away better than Serena on clay, stop putting crappy, trollish words in my mouth
From earlier in the thread, FYI.
Last edited:
justafa
New User
I was not sure what you were referring to at first. Now as I start to get to know the characters around here, it is all coming crystal clear for me. Some great posts from you in this thread and how great of you to overcome personal preferences and give credit to Justine.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
delete post...
Last edited:
justafa
New User
Henin won a boatload of slams. Your journeywoman Van Roost took Capriati to three sets in 2R 00 OZ, as we learn from you now. And on that basis you conclude that Van Roost is the greater Belgian player?
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
I see we have two great comebacks - Justine and gj011 - in the same day. :shock:
T
TheMagicianOfPrecision
Guest
This made me laugh-thanx
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Hmmmm.....all the great players lead the competition in UE's then?
And the greatest player have zero Majors to show for their effort?
I'll have to give you something for off-the-wall logic in that vein.
This thread's logic is similar to an old adage....
if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses
if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas
fact is, Williams hasn't won the French but once....in that final, she beat legendary clay court phenom....Venus Williams? OK, so it wasn't a triumph over someone who routinely wins/won on dirt......
S. Williams has played the French since 1998
- 1998 - R16 (lost to Sanchez-Vicario)
- 1999 - R32 (lost to Fernandez, Mary Joe)
- 2000 - DNP
- 2001 - QF, (lost to Capriati)
- 2002 - F (won v Venus Williams)
- 2003 - S (lost to Henin)
- 2004 - QF (lost to Capriati)
- 2005 - DNP
- 2006 - DNP
- 2007 - QF (lost to Henin)
- 2008 - R32 (lost to Srebotnik)
- 2009 - QF (lost to Kuznetsova)
cuddles26 said:
This wouldn't be the same Mary Joe Fernandez who captains Fed Cup now would it? The same one who in desparation scoured the qualies for players for Fed Cup at the Australian because despite her begging, the Williams wouldn't play?
Yeah, I guess that would be the same one. Wonder why she'd say something like that about Williams?
I will say one thing I like about the French. It's long about May that Williams is back singing her old song about how good she is and how lucky the competition is. At least the week to ten days she spends at the French shuts her up for a period.
Last edited:
justafa
New User
What a troll, fool and complete idiot. Justine is in, your Williams gorillas are out. Deal with it.
Camilio Pascual
Hall of Fame
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
I'm a Serena fan and am embarrassed by your arguments.
2003 French - First of all, Henin is a professional, so she did not cheat. What she did would be cheating in an amateur match, but not a pro match. Very bad sportsmanship, true, but not actual cheating. As a matter of fact, if I was running the US Open, I'd be tempted to have the coffee cups marked with these words - "Despite Appearances - Justine Henin is not a CHEAT!!!"
2009 French - "She choked in the 3rd set." Exactly, what's your point, again?
No, I don't like Henin, but she's a great player, let's not quibble and deny that.
Polvorin
Professional
OP is a comedic genius.
EDIT: Oh my, he/she is serious...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrF5x1OSJuQ
EDIT: Oh my, he/she is serious...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrF5x1OSJuQ
Last edited:
grafselesfan
Banned
I love Serena and despise Henin but even I have to admit that the original post is almost pure stupidity.
Of course Henin is the better clay court player. But that's all she's better at
IMO the best of this generation thus far anyway:
Clay- Henin
Grass- Venus
Hard courts- Serena
Indoors- ??? Honestly I am not sure here
Overall- Serena
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
I would have to agree with this, if Henin was stronger on grass than I would say her overall though, but she's not so its Serena. As for Indoors...I really can't say, no one really sticks out as being truly great. Davenport, Serena and Henin had some moments, but none of them were blow you away amazing indoors.
shabby
Rookie
Henin munched Serena at the USO before she retired.
grafselesfan
Banned
I dont even remember all the year end winners. I am pretty sure Henin and Clijsters both won it twice though. Serena I think won it once. Venus won it once. The Williams dont always gun for that at the end of the year though. Davenport won it once, and Hingis twice. Sharapova once, and Mauresmo once. So nobody truly dominant. Davenport, Serena, Sharapova, Mauresmo, have all been in multiple finals too, as was Pierce but in Pierce's case never winning one. If one of Clijsters or Henin win it another time they would be the clear choice almost by default.
grafselesfan
Banned
That is just a single match. That is not even close to enough to yet rank her over Serena on hard courts. That is her only ever win over Serena on a hard court (should have beaten her in Miami 07 when she choked badly but the result is still what it is), and has 3 hard court slams to Serena's 7. She has never even won Miami. Really it isnt even close, Henin right now is a shaky 2nd best on hard courts not by much over Clijsters, Venus, and Davenport IMO (if we count Davenport's whole career and she is even truly part of the same generation that is). In 2007 Henin was by far the best women player in the World for that year so if she was going to beat Serena on hard courts that was a good year for her to do it, but their overall careers it isnt even close right now.
shabby
Rookie
You do realise with both Kim and Henin next year Serena won't be able to win a HC slam? And if by any chance she does, It will be very, very strange.
grafselesfan
Banned
Even if you are right Henin will have to win atleast 6 hard court slams and win Miami atleast once before she can even be debated vs Serena on hard courts career wise seriously. Whether or not anyone thinks Serena benefited from a weakened field the last couple years with Henin and Clijsters retiring early (not neccessarily my views but I know some of you take that view) really it doesnt matter. Serena was the one who despite being labeled as undedicated and uncommited who continued to stick it out and compete for each available slam, while Henin and Clijsters chose to walk away from the sport for a period of time in the heart of their careers. Now both have a chance to make up alot of that and another chance to add further to their careers, but whatever they might have lost out on in that time they chose to be retired tough luck. It was their choice to retire and the choice of people like Serena to keep playing and winning.
Last edited:
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Yeah pretty much. If I had to pick someone it would probably be either Davenport, Henin or Clijsters, but given when Clijsters won hers (2002 Beating Serena), she would probably be my pick right now.
shabby
Rookie
What makes Miami soo significant? When judging who's career is better i'd always go by the slams. And a few other variables. The way Kim ousted both Venus and Serena out in her first slams since 2 years is just bizzare. It obviously just reiterate how bad the current WTA is.
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
Miami is the biggest non slam hardcourt title and some people consider it the unofficial 5th Grand Slam.
shabby
Rookie
What about the other MS tourney's? The points won there are the same so i don't see how Miami can be labeled 'the biggest non slam hardcourt event'?
Similar threads
- Poll
