dlk
Hall of Fame
Gotta agree with you.
Serena and Venus' mother blasts Kim Clijsters
- Thread starter Raiden
- Start date
Gotta agree with you.
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
And Serena's been on the cover of SI, ESPN's 'body' issue, Shape magazine, etc. Beauty is subjective, and it's ignorant to state your opinions on Serena's looks as if they are fact.
If you want to go more in depth, there's a certain 'type' of black woman who the mainstream deems as acceptable (light skinned vs dark skinned) but I won't go into that, as to push this even more off topic (as with all WS threads it seems. :?
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Serena is a beautiful women. Much more than the bony chicken Sharapova. I understand people thinking Vaidisova or Kirilenko or Hantuchova for example are very attractive, but not Maria whose looks are as overrated as her tennis these days. Sharapova is attractive compared to....Safina maybe.
Tanya
Hall of Fame
ironic how TMF is only attracted to the red bones...
why do WS threads always turn into arguments over their looks? could it have anything to do with jealousy? can't insult their tennis skills so we have to insult their appearance? tsk tsk.
Yet, she made 29 mil per year, the highest paid for a women athletes. A lot has to do with endorsements and commercials, not like prize/money from playing tennis like Serena. If she's not attractive(according to you), she would be another player with an average income. Her wealth is directly related to her good look. Deal with it !
jamesblakefan#1
G.O.A.T.
Jeez, so angry, little man. Calm down. Again, beauty is subjective. There's no sense in arguing over this, on both sides. There's plenty of people that find Serena attractive as well and don't fancy women like Sharapova, and vice versa. I believe Gary Coleman said it best - different strokes for different folks.
Buckethead
Banned
WS are ugly as hell in my opinion. But I only like my meat bright pink center. However the best looking WTA players are not all blonds.
Mandy Minella, Arantcha Rux, Andrea Hlavackova(the hottest blond), Andrea Petkovic, are the ones I think are better looking than others. Now if Sharapova, Azarenka, Wozniacki and Hvalackova walk down the street and in a club they will attract all the attention, unlike the WS. It is just a fact.
Blonds attract more attention and that is why all women including the WS dye their hair blond.
Beauty is only subjective from the point of view of an ugly person.
If you are not ugly, then you must be so deluded as to think that whatever silent minority there is that thinks Serena is beautiful somehow delegitimizes the silent/vocal majority that thinks she is not.
In other words, you would not have to refute that she is ugly if the silent majority hadn't somehow already impressed that "fact" upon you and the world.
Above is a classic example of the type of narrow-mindedness/small-mindedness that allows racism/xenophobia to flourish.
According to your logic, your worldview is the only one that matters.
People who are not like you or who disagree with you must be deficient in some way (i.e. only ugly people would disagree with what you find beautiful).
To quote a poster above: Some people have convinced themselves that their standard of beauty is the only one that exist...
Tanya
Hall of Fame
ah clearly, majority opinion = fact.
Wow talk about being full of your self...there are over six billion people in this world you have no way of knowing what the majority thinks
regardless who you think the most beautiful man or woman is there are millions of people in the world who would walk on by them...culture plays a huge part in who is seen as attractive given the diversity in culture what you say is garbage...
I'm not against people who say beauty is subjective, that's fine. However, you cannot ignore the general consensus. If most people see Maria is more attractive than Serena, then that makes her more beautiful. Those corporations who picked Maria(e.g. Canon) to represent their products, probably had their eyes on Serena or other players too, but in the end, they chose Maria since her good looks would maximize their profit. That's just the way it is...majority win in the end. It's ok if you are part of the minority, b/c nothing is absolute. I mean i can sit here and argue Nadal is the greatest in this era, but only a few fans would agree with me.
you do know how marketing works...all someone has to do is say this person is the next (insert whatever) long enough and people buy it...maria is not ugly but she is not nearly as pretty as you make her out to be. Kournikova (sp) was actually beautiful and maria got marketed as the next kournikova you will get a few hits off of that alone
regardless it doesnt change that fact that this discuss was only brought up because half the time it is the only think people will come in to a thread about serena or venus to say and that is where the problem lies.
I don't even know where to start. But I'll try to be succint.
For example, you seem to think that whomever is on the most magazine covers is therefore logically the most beautiful person.
For example....the most highly paid fashion models and TV actresses in the US and europe are white...that does not mean that the most beautiful women and most talented actresses are white.
Who chooses who graces magazine covers? Who chooses who gets lead roles in movies? Who chooses which tennis players to promote as "beautiful" ...which ones to claim are simple "athletic" and all of the other messages that get played and replayed and played and replayed ad nauseum until people like you think that the opinion you were given is the incontrovertible truth.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinions (even if you are woefully unaware of all of the factors subconciously directing them)...but please do not try to pass your opinion off as fact and please do not tell us what the majority of people think as you have no way of knowing what the nearly 7 billion (mostly non-white) people think or feel...as their opinions are not proportionately represented on TV or magazines in the US and Europe.
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Thank you...truest words posted today!!!
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li0scc0
Hall of Fame
Cute!!!!!!! Yes, I have a wife of 15 years, who could beat anybody on here at tennis.
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
You are only speaking for yourself, with no facts to support your insane, cave-ranting.
Moving on...
IW is irrelevant, and the biggest audience for any major is the TV audience not on-site attendance, where the 2010 women's final (once again) took a severe drop in ratings. Why? Because the WTA's biggest star (Serena) was not in that final. Rant all you want, but the numbers for the sport's biggest audience do not lie...but you do on a daily basis.
Yeah, no one is surprised about that.
We all know you live in wearing-a-bedsheet-land, but here in reality, Venus and Serena never paid a price for anything. Unlike so many sports stars, they have soared above the infantile, go-nowhere whining of stalkers such as yourself.
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Brilliantly cogent post!
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Translated: you are on the side of those spewing typically racist venom, so you (in a laughable, desperate move) attempt to shif your own issues to one free of your socially ill beliefs.
Not at all sharp, little boy.
Raiden
Hall of Fame
I don't mind if we go in depth in to this
I think imo, Serena should not be held as some kinda standard of black beauty that could be used in finding out whether someone is racist or not. That should be others, like for example this gal: 
She's clearly dark-skinned enough (so she passes your test) she certainly is not "light-skinned" black women like Beyoncé or outright of mixed parentage like Tyra Banks/Rihanna etc... And so as I said, not Serena nor sister Venus should be some kinda "litmus test" of trying to find out whether someone has a purely racist or race-based taste. There are alternatives, although obviously (and unfortunately) they're far from being mainstream and famous as top level pro tennis players
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I don't mind if we go in depth in to this
She's clearly dark-skinned enough (so she passes your test) she certainly is not "light-skinned" black women like Beyoncé or outright of mixed parentage like Tyra Banks/Rihanna etc... And so as I said, not Serena nor sister Venus should be some kinda "litmus test" of trying to find out whether someone has a purely racist or race-based taste. There are alternatives, although obviously (and unfortunately) they're far from being mainstream and famous as top level pro tennis players
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the subjective nature of beauty isn't really the point imo. I want to know why some people only stop by to say they are ugly or I hate them. People having an opinion about the topic of the thread i.e. I dont think serena is goat because or I think these comments are out of line because are fine whatever...
But too many threads about the williams sisters just ending being they are ugly. How can you not see that as a problem
Raiden
Hall of Fame
That is the point in this OP though. Oracene didn't make Clijsters' tennis skills (or "inner beauty" or whatever) an issue.
li0scc0
Hall of Fame
There are certain players who are polarizing figures. These players, for whatever reason, cause people on both sides of the fence to overly defend said player, or overly bash said player.
It is very interesting to notice the polarization. Certainly I contribute in the discussion, I dislike Serena for the reasons I have mentioned numerous times in various threads, yet I will not bash Venus to the same extent. Other players polarize, as well (to be fair, it is often the fans who polarize, not the player).
Some players, for whatever reason, do not polarize. Other than one or two posters, very few people 'hate' Steffi Graf, Michael Chang, Stefan Edberg. Each played the game well, with dignity and class.
Also, very few 'hate' players who are not at the top. Robin Soderling is an example - an outstanding player, but one who does not seem to polarize.
Some players are polarizing due to the media attention they receive. Maria Sharapova is an example - some 'hate' her due to the overdone media attention she receives.
I try and be objective with players I dislike. But none of us are perfect. With some players, we cannot put our finger on why we dislike them. I was like this with Verdasco - I could not stand him, and finally I took a step back and asked myself 'why'? When I had no answer, then I found myself disliking him less. I think we all can do this. If we have legitimate reasons to dislike a player, then it is fine. If we do not.....then perhaps it is time to reevaluate.
It is very interesting to notice the polarization. Certainly I contribute in the discussion, I dislike Serena for the reasons I have mentioned numerous times in various threads, yet I will not bash Venus to the same extent. Other players polarize, as well (to be fair, it is often the fans who polarize, not the player).
Some players, for whatever reason, do not polarize. Other than one or two posters, very few people 'hate' Steffi Graf, Michael Chang, Stefan Edberg. Each played the game well, with dignity and class.
Also, very few 'hate' players who are not at the top. Robin Soderling is an example - an outstanding player, but one who does not seem to polarize.
Some players are polarizing due to the media attention they receive. Maria Sharapova is an example - some 'hate' her due to the overdone media attention she receives.
I try and be objective with players I dislike. But none of us are perfect. With some players, we cannot put our finger on why we dislike them. I was like this with Verdasco - I could not stand him, and finally I took a step back and asked myself 'why'? When I had no answer, then I found myself disliking him less. I think we all can do this. If we have legitimate reasons to dislike a player, then it is fine. If we do not.....then perhaps it is time to reevaluate.
Her comments are the exact thing I think people need to stop...hateful comments that arent about tennis.
So I dont think the op brought this up because she called kim ugly it was because she spewed hate which the majority of people then did in the thread about the williams sisters....
Now do you get my point
rovex
Legend
So are you telling me you advocate this sort of behaviour in public?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7vWBNNXRjg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
rovex
Legend
Strong words coming from someone who doesn't know the difference in spelling between whether and weather. :twisted:
LOL!
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
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TBrady
Banned
Serena is obese and seeing her in a bathing suit makes me want to vomit.
You want to see a beautiful woman look at Gorges, Vadisova, Kirilenko.
Sharapova is too annoying to be desirable.
Those highly paid fashion models may not be the most beautiful, but they definite fall in the beauty category. And not just white, I find asian and black models are beautiful too. These girls are selectively chosen, only a handful can have a career, and then very few managed to become a “supermodel”. They are very rare, you don’t find them randomly in public places. In contrast to Serena, there’s plenty of her type out in public. Basically, extremely beautiful are hard to find but average looking you can find it anywhere.
You and I cannot proved what’s majority and what’s minority people perceive. But you have nothing to backup for Serena. Atleast I have pointed out Ivanovic, kournikova and Maria getting more attention from fans, corporations. So more plausible to believe most people see these girls are more attractive than Serena. Had Maria's endorsements/commercials and the annual earning was reversed in Serena's favor, you have an argument.
Your 7 billion people argument is not convincing. The Miss Universe pageant represent many contestants across the globe. Countries with different races, culture and other diversities. Their own people pick their lady to represent their country. Yet, I find it fascinating that these miss universe contestants are incredibly beautiful. I’m sorry but I don’t see Serena type in the mixed. Most look like much closer to supermodel type(e.g. Tyra Banks). Another word, most people around the world view the same...the model of a beautiful women has a supermodel type figure(and facial looks). Don’t hate b/c I have the same perspective !
Again, I’m not saying it’s an absolute, b/c there’s always very few out there can say these contestants as ugly, but vast majority don’t see that way, worldwide. Just b/c we all say beauty is subjective(which is true) doesn't mean a given two women are equally attracive.
I'm not a Serena fan. I think she's often lacked class and character after losing.
However, while I don't think she's gorgeous by any stretch, I do think she's an attractive woman WHEN she is lean. When she's overweight, which we've seen a lot in her career, she's not that attractive at all.
But, I do have to say that she does look as though she's 'roided on many occasions. While it's great that she's strong and muscled, she took it past the point of being attractive. It's too manly. As a tennis player, she doesn't need all that bulk from weight lifting.
However, while I don't think she's gorgeous by any stretch, I do think she's an attractive woman WHEN she is lean. When she's overweight, which we've seen a lot in her career, she's not that attractive at all.
But, I do have to say that she does look as though she's 'roided on many occasions. While it's great that she's strong and muscled, she took it past the point of being attractive. It's too manly. As a tennis player, she doesn't need all that bulk from weight lifting.
Who won the last 3 major events? Who?
Added to the fact other players produce more enjoyable matches this year than last year.
2011 AO >> 2010 AO
So yes, without Serena did not hurt this year AO. And this event is not even in the USA
IW is irrelevant to you, but not to us tennis fans. This event has the most attendance outside of the 4 slams, and has the 2nd largest outdoor stadium(behind Arthur Ashe). It’s a very popular event but I don’t expect you to know this b/c you don’t watch tennis. Serena boycotted this tourney for the past decade but the tournament continue to grow in wealth and popularity without her. Deal with it!
And even if you want to look at the major, I’ve already pointed out the USO 2010 was incredibly successful without Serena. I can repost the link again.
Oracene’s bad mouthed Clijsters can only make it worse for the sisters. The sisters didn’t do anything, but still, a mother can influence them. You think they gain more fans out of her mother’s twitter? Don’t make me laugh.
This is a silly argument.
Serena has been mentioned in several songs in addition to having Jamie Foxx fawn over her in public on a couple of different occasions and he wrote a song about her and sang it to her on an awards show.
That of course proves nothing and is a completely ridiculous argument in line with the completely ridiculous argument that you are offering.
You are saying because these white players get more attention from white-controlled media and more money from largely white run sponsors, that means they are more attractive or more desireable or better or whatever silly thing it is you are saying.
You miss the obvious point over and over again...i.e. none of those things are a true measure of one's beauty or worth for one and for two, they certainly do not represent MOST PEOPLE'S opinions as white people are OVERREPRESENTED in popular media and every one else is underrepresented....therefore, we never get to hear what a great many types of people think as their voices are ignored.
However, since we are going down this silly road...I don't think any of those ladies have had the kind of attention and affection and admiration thrown their way as Serena has...as partially outlined above.... so obviously lots of people find her beautiful, more beautiful than the women you like.
So what?
Your opinion is not more valid or valuable than anyone else's and despite what you would like to believe you do not have the majority on your side.
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I don't know whether she would get more endorsements or not because I do not think that Serena's looks have worked against her as far as endorsements.
She is a highly endorsed athlete. If anything has led to less endorsements it is the highly promoted negative perceptions about them faking injuries and bad behavior and all of the other BS that we have heard from the beginning of their careers.
But I don't think either Williams Sister is hurting for endorsements.
The question is if Maria Sharapova was not white and blonde, would she have been the most highly endorsed female athlete?
She certainly was never the best tennis player and by many standards not even the best looking one.
But this is all pretty silly stuff and I think what someone said a few pages ago about the focus on the physical beauty of female athletes is really insulting.
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Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
This thread reminds me of a sociology class.
You keep saying most opinion are white people in order for you not to see the other side of the fence.
I want you to visit this site where 83 contestants compete for the 2010 Miss Universe Pageant. Notice they look like model type, the type we normally see on the magazine. And no, these opinions are not from white American, it’s all over the world and each country pick their own women. Somehow all of their taste are so similar.
http://www.missuniverse.com/members/contestants
The whole William's herd are odd and very self centered. Neither of the William's sisters has anything good to say about the other player. If they lose it's always some excuse of why they lost not why the other person just flat out beat them. Very unflattering clothing outfits. None of which would make it to the thrift store clearance rack. The only reason they make onto the court and out in public is because the William's sisters have money and are celebrities. If they were no bodies they wouldn't make it on any website of newspaper site. Old man William's taking pictures non stop at a tournament and using racial excuses of why the daughters won't be back to a tournament (California of all places- most diverse of any state). Again EXCUSES. The mom is another odd bird. Always has some sort of crazy looks. Even in some of her interview comments she has a strange twist on things. They should just all GO AWAY!!
Federerx16
Rookie
Why are people talking like Serena hardly has no indorsements or money coming in? Somebody must like her enough to give her over $20 mil. a year.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/18/to...tes-business-sportsmoney-female-athletes.html
I don’t see your point except you suggesting that these beauty pageant is all a setup, which I disagree. It boiled down to voters made their vote, and whoever gets the majority of the votes qualify. Simple as that.
Standard has changed, so are you telling me 10 years ago that these contestants look more like Serena type?
Some people are in denial. There are plenty of blonde hair athletes out there not just Sharapova. Why don’t they picked the other random players and not just Maria? The reason she received these contracts is b/c of her looks.
i am not even going to bother, you are stuck in your own little bubble have fun there....
but to people who actually recognize that there is a world outside of them and their experiences know that what some people consider beautiful now has not always been beautiful and is subject to change in the future
I agree, that many endorsements go to the blonde eyed beauty because they represent the stereotype of what beauty should be. Tall, thin, skinny, long hair, blue eyes. I mean, Anna Kournikova never won a tournament and look at all the endorsements she made.
However, as it stands now, Venus Williams is the most marketable sportswoman with recent contracts with EA sports, Tide, and Nabisco/Oreo.
tennisnoob3
Professional
not to mention completely butcher "Medusa"
is it boring when serena and venus always win a slam, or the doubles title?
Yes, they are so self centered that is why Serena was the only player to boycott the South Carolina tournament to support the efforts to get the racist flag changed and that is why she is built a school in Africa and they also support an academy in Florida for underpriviledged children.
I suspect they have done more for others in their short careers than you will do in your entire life.
Not to mention what they have done for the sport of tennis in general and women's tennis in particular in terms of the money they have generated and the new players who started playing as a direct result of their careers.
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