Serena, Cincinnati, and the consecutive weeks at #1 record

Currently, Serena has been #1 for 183 consecutive weeks. The record for most consecutive weeks as #1 is Steffi Graf, on 186. If Serena keeps the #1 ranking, she will equal Graf during the second week of the US Open and surpass her when the post-US Open rankings are released.

However, because Serena withdrew from Cincinnati, her attempt to break that record is now in jeopardy at the last possible moment. If Kerber wins Cincinnati, she will take over the #1 ranking on Monday, snapping Serena's streak at 183.

It's a tall order, given how tired Kerber must be. But she is the highest-ranked player in the draw and is probably the favorite - albeit being far from the odds-on favorite.
 
Serena likes to break records so if this is true, then it's a huge error by Serena's team to have her not play this tournament. No matter how tired she may be. She only has to hold on for 4 more weeks to break it.
 
Serena likes to break records so if this is true, then it's a huge error by Serena's team to have her not play this tournament. No matter how tired she may be. She only has to hold on for 4 more weeks to break it.

Not like she can't get it back, but then again Kerber has to win Cincy, which is a tough task. Halep is looking pretty good, and she beat Kerber a couple weeks ago in Canada.
 
Not like she can't get it back, but then again Kerber has to win Cincy, which is a tough task. Halep is looking pretty good, and she beat Kerber a couple weeks ago in Canada.

Serena's a long way behind for overall weeks as #1, but, yes, she could get the ranking back and challenge for that figure.

But this is about consecutive weeks at #1. Serena is only three behind Graf in that category. But the record is 186 weeks in a row as #1. Serena turns 35 in 40 days' time. Good though she is I think it highly unlikely that she could lose the #1 ranking at this point, get it back, and start another run of weeks as #1. For her to do that, she'd have to be 38 and a half and still be #1. I don't see that happening.
 
Kerber made the quarter-finals in Cincinnati yesterday, so she's only three matches away from the #1 ranking. She is playing Carla Suarez Navarro right now in the quarter-finals, would play either Radwanska or Halep tomorrow in the semis, and then Pliskova, Muguruza, or Babos on Sunday in the final. Not an easy draw by any means, especially as she must be tired. In fact, CSN currently has a break in the first set against her (3-2). But Kuznetsova's loss against Pliskova may help Kerber. I think Kuznetsova would have been a very tricky final opponent. Muguruza might be as well, but she's been rather disappointing lately.

True, Halep beat Kerber in Canada recently. But Kerber beat Halep at Wimbledon not too long ago. It'd clearly be a match that could go either way.
 
Serena likes to break records so if this is true, then it's a huge error by Serena's team to have her not play this tournament. No matter how tired she may be. She only has to hold on for 4 more weeks to break it.

She requested a WC after stating initially that she wouldn't play Cincy. She doesn't normally do that (request WCs after deciding not to play a tournament), so I don't think this was about not caring or making errors, it was about her not being in any condition to play.

If she forced herself to play this but then tanked USO, she wouldn't break the record anyway (and she'd have a tanked USO to regret). That is, she has to hold out until mid-September or so, so it's not as though Cincy was her last hurdle.

If it had been her last hurdle, I'd definitely say to hell with it, just push through as much as you can and give it a go. But with USO on the horizon, she's made the right choice regardless of the record (which will indeed be a shame to lose).
 
She requested a WC after stating initially that she wouldn't play Cincy. She doesn't normally do that (request WCs after deciding not to play a tournament), so I don't think this was about not caring or making errors, it was about her not being in any condition to play.

If she forced herself to play this but then tanked USO, she wouldn't break the record anyway (and she'd have a tanked USO to regret). That is, she has to hold out until mid-September or so, so it's not as though Cincy was her last hurdle.

If it had been her last hurdle, I'd definitely say to hell with it, just push through as much as you can and give it a go. But with USO on the horizon, she's made the right choice regardless of the record (which will indeed be a shame to lose).

Well, I suppose she would regard tying the record as being equivalent to not getting there at all, so you might be right. But she would tie the record during the second week of the US Open, and not afterwards. So, Cincy WAS her last hurdle to tying the record, but her penultimate record to breaking it. She'll break the record if she is still #1 when the new ranking list is released the day after the US Open.

I would regard tying but not breaking a record as better than failing to tie it. But you may be right that Serena - or Graf for that matter - would think differently.
 
Well, I suppose she would regard tying the record as being equivalent to not getting there at all, so you might be right. But she would tie the record during the second week of the US Open, and not afterwards. So, Cincy WAS her last hurdle to tying the record, but her penultimate record to breaking it. She'll break the record if she is still #1 when the new ranking list is released the day after the US Open.

I would regard tying but not breaking a record as better than failing to tie it. But you may be right that Serena - or Graf for that matter - would think differently.

Yeah, sorry, I did assume (and do assume) that anything short of breaking the record would be equivalent to not getting there as far as she's concerned.

All hopes are with Simona tomorrow, but I don't expect much.
 
Well if she'd played a few more tournaments she'd probably have enough of a points cushion... ;)
Or avoided the Olympics for rest - but it's admirable she wanted to represent her country.
But Kerber will bottle it, so I wouldn't worry too much :)
 
Yeah, sorry, I did assume (and do assume) that anything short of breaking the record would be equivalent to not getting there as far as she's concerned.

All hopes are with Simona tomorrow, but I don't expect much.

I think that it might well be her attitude, but I think it's a weird one. Don't you think she regarded her 22nd Slam as a big deal, even though it only tied Graf and didn't overtake her? I guess the difference is that a Slam means more than a week as #1.
 
I think that it might well be her attitude, but I think it's a weird one. Don't you think she regarded her 22nd Slam as a big deal, even though it only tied Graf and didn't overtake her? I guess the difference is that a Slam means more than a week as #1.
Well, she always said she didn't care about number 1 back in the Safina days, so at least she's being consistent. And historically speaking, the stat is not that great considering they didn't even keep track of number 1 back in Evert's day and beyond, and that Graf era number 1 was calculated differently than most of Serena's era. I mean, it's a good stat, but it's not the end all be all.
 
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Well if she'd played a few more tournaments she'd probably have enough of a points cushion... ;)
Or avoided the Olympics for rest - but it's admirable she wanted to represent her country.
But Kerber will bottle it, so I wouldn't worry too much :)

More like Halep will save the day. I don't necessarily think Kerber will bottle it, but I think this match-up has come at the right time for the Romanian and the wrong time for the German. It's te 2014 YEC all over again, except this time Halep isn't destroying her chances against Serena but someone else's chances.

I assume you're very happy with the Olympics so far. In the battle between GB and China for second place in the medal table I see a lot of similarities with the Serena-rest of the WTA story, where China had a gazillion chances to get ahead and choked them all. Even in the women's hockey yesterday, it was like team GB was protected by the Almighty. Nothing the Dutch could do against that kind of good fortune, I actually felt sorry for them. Similarly, I'm starting to believe Serena is blessed by the Almighty and there's not much the others can do.
 
More like Halep will save the day. I don't necessarily think Kerber will bottle it, but I think this match-up has come at the right time for the Romanian and the wrong time for the German. It's te 2014 YEC all over again, except this time Halep isn't destroying her chances against Serena but someone else's chances.

I assume you're very happy with the Olympics so far. In the battle between GB and China for second place in the medal table I see a lot of similarities with the Serena-rest of the WTA story, where China had a gazillion chances to get ahead and choked them all. Even in the women's hockey yesterday, it was like team GB was protected by the Almighty. Nothing the Dutch could do against that kind of good fortune, I actually felt sorry for them. Similarly, I'm starting to believe Serena is blessed by the Almighty and there's not much the others can do.
I sadly have little time for the Olympics and my country's success. As I've said elsewhere, I feel dissolution and a sense of betrayal since Brexit that I feel too saddened to take an interest. Happy for the British athletes on a personal level but not watched a single one of them compete.
 
I sadly have little time for the Olympics and my country's success. As I've said elsewhere, I feel dissolution and a sense of betrayal since Brexit that I feel too saddened to take an interest. Happy for the British athletes on a personal level but not watched a single one of them compete.

Aw, sorry to hear that. I understand your point though.
 
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I haven't been here lately, that's why I didn't see what you wrote about the Olympics. No internet where I was holidaying. :)
I only touched on it briefly.
I'm still in shock, and can't shake the fact that people voted on a web of lies, a racist agenda, and a ridiculously selfish interest. I thought we, as a people, were better than that. Hey ho.
 
I only touched on it briefly.
I'm still in shock, and can't shake the fact that people voted on a web of lies, a racist agenda, and a ridiculously selfish interest. I thought we, as a people, were better than that. Hey ho.

Well, I'm afraid i'm a sceptic when it comes to nationhood and "we the people". I just don't think there's such a thing, it's an abstraction created by the nation-state back in the 17th and 18th centuries that was very useful for taxes, waging war, etc . It's an attempt to hide the fact that politics is always a struggle between different and often contrary interests. Even the most profound of revolutions is always a struggle between different peoples within a given political entity. What I like about sports is the fact that it's - at least in principle - the only non-violent display of nationhood.
 
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I sadly have little time for the Olympics and my country's success. As I've said elsewhere, I feel dissolution and a sense of betrayal since Brexit that I feel too saddened to take an interest. Happy for the British athletes on a personal level but not watched a single one of them compete.
Damn:(
 
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Yes, of course it's not the only important stat and isn't even that important.

Well, she always said she didn't care about number 1 back in the Safina days, so at least she's being consistent. And historically speaking, the stat is not that great considering they didn't even keep track of number 1 back in Evert's day and beyond, and that Graf era number 1 was calculated differently than most of Serena's era. I mean, it's a good stat, but it's not the end all be all.
 
Still, I'd be lying if I said I didn't care at all. Mostly I just want her to keep destroying TMF's list :)

Well, Pliskova is leading 6-3 5-1, so it looks like Serena will after all at least equal the record and perhaps break it. She has a good chance of gaining points at the US Open, although so does Kerber.
 
The only points that Serena has to defend for the rest of the year is USO semi-finals. If she is number one then, she be able to accumulate points in the fall and be looking good to stay number one until Australia. At that point she would have over 200 weeks!?
 
The only points that Serena has to defend for the rest of the year is USO semi-finals. If she is number one then, she be able to accumulate points in the fall and be looking good to stay number one until Australia. At that point she would have over 200 weeks!?

Yeah. She'll either merely tie Graf or best her record by quite a few weeks. No in-between.

Kerber has a total of 1,215 points to defend post-USO. Would be super hard to overtake Serena at that point. It's really now or never for her. But I think she has a great chance because I have serious doubts about Serena showing up fully physically fit for USO.
 
Yeah. She'll either merely tie Graf or best her record by quite a few weeks. No in-between.

Kerber has a total of 1,215 points to defend post-USO. Would be super hard to overtake Serena at that point. It's really now or never for her. But I think she has a great chance because I have serious doubts about Serena showing up fully physically fit for USO.
Kerber, unless against a seriously woeful player, will bottle it time and time again.
AO aside (and that was an exceptional victory) she doesn't seem to have it when it really matters consistently. But she is the best of the rest. But given their lack of consistency in results........
I'm hopeful Puig will step up as she seems a breath of fresh air.
We will see.
 
Kerber, unless against a seriously woeful player, will bottle it time and time again.
AO aside (and that was an exceptional victory) she doesn't seem to have it when it really matters consistently. But she is the best of the rest. But given their lack of consistency in results........
I'm hopeful Puig will step up as she seems a breath of fresh air.
We will see.

Remember that the gap is now truly small. Serena's only ahead by 190 points. If she flies out in the first round, she'll go down to 6,270. In that case, Kerber could flop her first rounder as well and still gain no. 1 ranking.

Indeed, I think the lowest number of points Kerber can come away with is 6,730, meaning that she shouldn't even need a single win if Serena doesn't make it to QF.

I do see your point about bottling up, but the thing is she truly doesn't need to do much unless Serena makes it to the 2nd week.

My main concern is really her health; this record in itself isn't that huge imo.
 
Remember that the gap is now truly small. Serena's only ahead by 190 points. If she flies out in the first round, she'll go down to 6,270. In that case, Kerber could flop her first rounder as well and still gain no. 1 ranking.

Indeed, I think the lowest number of points Kerber can come away with is 6,730, meaning that she shouldn't even need a single win if Serena doesn't make it to QF.

I do see your point about bottling up, but the thing is she truly doesn't need to do much unless Serena makes it to the 2nd week.

My main concern is really her health; this record in itself isn't that huge imo.
Fair play to Kerber if she obtains the no.1 ranking:
She's definitely the second best player re results - but given the ridiculous inconsistencies of those below her it's a good achievement but not great.
Also, Serena Williams concentration on majors means that she should be caught, and overtaken by others who play a full schedule with consistent success.
That she isn't says more about her fellow players than it does Williams.
 
Angie is 8-3 vs. the top 10 this season, so she's definitely not "bottling it time & again unless against a seriously woeful player".

All these preconceived notions, when stats are clearly telling otherwise.
 
I wish she'd played Madrid. I was really annoyed when she skipped it. Toronto and Cincy are clear cases of withdrawals induced by injury imo so I don't fault her there.

As for Kerber and bottling it up: I'll go ahead and defend her record a bit.

Kerber's played four key matches this year: AO finals (significant due to being a GS final), W finals (same), Olympic final (significant because, hell, it's Olympics - you don't get another chance until four years later!) and CIncy final (significant for giving her the opportunity to take number 1 ranking). I would contend the only match she bottled up was the last one.

In the W final, she played against an in-form, focused Serena with rock solid serve. She committed 9 UEs total, so around 4-5 per set. By comparison, she committed 13 UEs total at AO. Since that was a three-setter, the average UE count per set is about on par with her W stats: a little over 4 per set. Now I know that UE stat isn't end-all; be-all; but I contend that her stats in the W final are otherwise completely comparable to her AO final.

In short, I would contend Kerber played her best tennis that day; the Kerber of AO final showed up. The only reason she didn't win was because her opponent is a greater player who also showed up to play that day. If Serena had been as nervy as she'd been in the AO final, Kerber would've taken it. Kerber seemed gracious and relieved more than disappointed post-finals, and I think it was because she knew she hadn't bombed, she'd done the best she could.

Indeed, I gained new respect for Kerber post that final. She's now played 2GS finals at a high - in fact her best - level. That's no small feat.

Olympics: Kerber melted down somewhat in the third set. 9 errors in that set alone. Can't be said she was at her very best. BUT, I think she'd have lost regardless. Puig was completely inspired and would have taken her no matter what. That is the drawback of defense-based tennis, at least on women's side - if your aggressive opponent is having a day of her life, not much you can do. Kerber could have managed a better scoreline, but in my view, she'd have lost anyway.

That leaves us with Cincy. Indeed a meltdown - I watched the entire match and Pliskova did nothing special. But exhaustion must have had a lot to do with it. I certainly wouldn't say nerves were the only factor.

If Kerber comes to USO rested and at 100 percent physically, I really think she'll play well and won't bottle it up until/unless she runs into another aggressive player having a day of her life.
 
I wish she'd played Madrid. I was really annoyed when she skipped it. Toronto and Cincy are clear cases of withdrawals induced by injury imo so I don't fault her there.

As for Kerber and bottling it up: I'll go ahead and defend her record a bit.

Kerber's played four key matches this year: AO finals (significant due to being a GS final), W finals (same), Olympic final (significant because, hell, it's Olympics - you don't get another chance until four years later!) and CIncy final (significant for giving her the opportunity to take number 1 ranking). I would contend the only match she bottled up was the last one.

In the W final, she played against an in-form, focused Serena with rock solid serve. She committed 9 UEs total, so around 4-5 per set. By comparison, she committed 13 UEs total at AO. Since that was a three-setter, the average UE count per set is about on par with her W stats: a little over 4 per set. Now I know that UE stat isn't end-all; be-all; but I contend that her stats in the W final are otherwise completely comparable to her AO final.

In short, I would contend Kerber played her best tennis that day; the Kerber of AO final showed up. The only reason she didn't win was because her opponent is a greater player who also showed up to play that day. If Serena had been as nervy as she'd been in the AO final, Kerber would've taken it. Kerber seemed gracious and relieved more than disappointed post-finals, and I think it was because she knew she hadn't bombed, she'd done the best she could.

Indeed, I gained new respect for Kerber post that final. She's now played 2GS finals at a high - in fact her best - level. That's no small feat.

Olympics: Kerber melted down somewhat in the third set. 9 errors in that set alone. Can't be said she was at her very best. BUT, I think she'd have lost regardless. Puig was completely inspired and would have taken her no matter what. That is the drawback of defense-based tennis, at least on women's side - if your aggressive opponent is having a day of her life, not much you can do. Kerber could have managed a better scoreline, but in my view, she'd have lost anyway.

That leaves us with Cincy. Indeed a meltdown - I watched the entire match and Pliskova did nothing special. But exhaustion must have had a lot to do with it. I certainly wouldn't say nerves were the only factor.

If Kerber comes to USO rested and at 100 percent physically, I really think she'll play well and won't bottle it up until/unless she runs into another aggressive player having a day of her life.
Fair enough. A balanced post.
I would just contend she only won one of the matches cited. The first.
Wimbledon, grass, Serena. Yup, a tough ask.
Olympics - hmm mm. But happy for Puig.
Cincy - No.1 ranking on the line. Real pressure. Bottled it.
 
I have a hunch it's easier for Angie when she isn't the favorite. Calm against Serena in a GS final both times, drawing strength from the fact that she was the underdog with nothing to lose. Smart mentality, and of course not transferrable when you're playing a match you're supposed to win.

That said, I find it hard to judge her harshly for matches against Puig and Pliskova. Puig was inspired and might have taken anyone that day whereas the Pliskova match represented the culmination of an exhausting schedule. Kerber was half a step late for many balls; that to me indicates tiredness, which I think affected her separate and independent of nerves.

I think Kerber that day didn't have much fight left in her. She needed Pliskova to roll over, and instead Pliskova calmly played her game. More than enough for a gassed (probably both physically and mentally) Kerber. Kerber of W final would've taken it.
 
On Kerber: Although she did lose both the Olympic and Cincinnati final, she did well to make it to the latter given the short turnaround time. Murray did the same, of course, but Nadal, Nishikori, Puig, and Kvitova all failed to cope with that turnaround time. Seems like the momentum of making the Olympic final helped stave off the tiredness of playing two matches in the finals weekend to at least some extent.

[Del Potro and Keys weren't entered for Cincinnati, so I'm not counting them. Perhaps Keys simply withdrew earlier than the others, though. I don't know and can't be bothered to check].
 
Yeah of course. It was a big deal to go that deep in Cincy after the exhausting week in Rio. Change of surface too. I honestly thought it was over when Simona, who I personally thought was the favorite to take Cincy, failed to take her out.

Let's see what happens at USO. She ought to arrive there rested. If she bottles up a big match against someone she's supposed to be able to win against WITHOUT that person having an amazing day at the office, I'll start asking questions about bottling tendencies. I'm reserving judgment until then tho.
 
The only points that Serena has to defend for the rest of the year is USO semi-finals. If she is number one then, she be able to accumulate points in the fall and be looking good to stay number one until Australia. At that point she would have over 200 weeks!?
She has to play said tournaments in the fall first...... ;)
 
She has to play said tournaments in the fall first...... ;)

Yeah she'd probably have to play at least 1-2, but let's face it, overtaking her would be ridiculously difficult no matter what. Kerber has over a 1000 points to defend, Muguruza (who finally started playing after USO following a horrendous few months in the wake of W final) & Radwanska even more so.

If Serena took just one more title, that'd be a wrap. Might be a wrap anyway, really.

I guess Halep, who didn't do much post-USO might be a dark horse at that point, but personally I doubt it.
 
The only points that Serena has to defend for the rest of the year is USO semi-finals. If she is number one then, she be able to accumulate points in the fall and be looking good to stay number one until Australia. At that point she would have over 200 weeks!?

Serena looking good, will win Australian Open!

;)
 
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I am thrilled Serena has secured tieing that record of consecutive weeks at #1 with Graf. I will be happy if she breaks it but almost happier if she doesnt. Simply because it would be cool if the 2 greatest female players of all time shared atleast one record (lets face it Serena is breaking most of Graf's others) and I think Kerber deserves atleast a short stint at #1. Although on the other hand I want Serena to win the U.S Open and if she does that that wont happen, and Kerber might never reach #1. I guess at this point I will be happy either way, she atleast has a share of the record already and that is great.
 
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