Serena in her prime against men

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dnj30, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. dnj30

    dnj30 Semi-Pro

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    This one has probably been debated many times in one form or another, but its a good debate. Assuming Serena at her best was probably the best womans player(hardest hitting, at least), what level of men's player would she consistently beat? Lower ranked touring pros? Satellite level guys? I've spoken to guys who say good div 1 men would beat the top women. Lets assume a 3 set match, so conditioning isn't really an issue.
     
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  2. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    She would have crushed Kobayashi easily.
     
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  3. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Yes! Let's have this discussion AGAIN!!!
     
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  4. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    She would not have been able to beat hardly any mens players within her own era, since they had access to her technology and training and are superior to her physically.

    However, she would have cleaned house against mens players, even "greats" in previous eras (assuming they had their original tech and training).
     
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  5. brettsticker86

    brettsticker86 Rookie

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    she wouldn't beat division 1 college players...no way
     
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  6. dnj30

    dnj30 Semi-Pro

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    Sorry man, i'm new. In fairness, is there really ANYTHING left to be discussed on this board that hasnt already been covered in a previous thread(aside from current events)?
     
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  7. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    You go boy, you go! :)
     
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  8. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    LOL, it has been a couple weeks.
     
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  9. Serena Williams might beat ranks 2000 or so???? Dunno.
     
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  10. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Well, I guess she may have a chance against Djokovic if he's on a bad serving day.

    I mean Marko, of course... :mrgreen:
     
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  11. dnj30

    dnj30 Semi-Pro

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    Really? You're that certain? So, if she were a man she basically would be a 5.5 level player?
     
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  12. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe if the men were blindfolded and facing their arse to the net.

    Maybe Serena could win a point.
     
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  13. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro Talk Tennis Guru

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    #13
  14. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    We are not even sure if Serena can beat a prime Henin(2007), let alone against the men.
     
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  15. If the question is, can she beat someone maybe not more often than not but even just once while she's on her best day and they are on here worst day, then maybe she could take out an uber low rank.
     
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  16. Laurie

    Laurie Hall of Fame

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    I don't recall seeing how a female skiier would fare against a male skiier or a female sprinter would fare against a male sprinter.

    It's a superflous question which has been done to death as has been pointed out, but won't get us anywhere anyway.
     
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  17. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    3.5 male would be competitive, 4.0 male would easily defeat her.
     
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  18. brettsticker86

    brettsticker86 Rookie

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    maybe, MAYYYYBE lower level division 1...top level division 1? yea, right
     
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  19. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    the link thats been tossed in every time this discussion came up:
    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

    i dont think anyone was ever able to verify this article but i think its plausible. its basically the same as playing club level and wtaching people from a higher club level who are mediocre among their fellows play and thinking "hmmm looks like i could hang with them" and then when you try you soon notice that even a slight difference in pace, placement, spin and consistenty of the shots will just add up to be lethal to you if youre not used to playing the game like that. im pretty sure that serena or any other female pro would get slaughtered on the mens tour. and not just by the top guys
     
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  20. dnj30

    dnj30 Semi-Pro

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    I didnt bring this up as a way to beat up on women athletes. I just think it is interesting subject matter.
     
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  21. Tammo

    Tammo Banned

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    S he probably couldn't even beat Santoro!
     
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  22. purge

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    marat approves +10
     
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  23. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    Santoro is overkill. I don't think Serena would be able to beat her hitting partner Sasha. He wouldn't be her hitting partner if he couldn't handle her.
     
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  24. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    I think the current men - you could go down further than 750+ in the rankings before you met a player prime Serena could beat. Someone of Karsten Braasch's former ranking would barely break a sweat.

    Tennis has gotten more and more physical - which is why you rarely see teens in the top 100 anymore in tennis. That would push the difficulty for a woman to beat a male further and further down the rankings imo.

    I've seen guys ranked outside of 750 trying to qualify for smaller ATP 250 tournaments who have been amongst the top college players. From seeing how they move and strike the ball there is just no way Serena would beat them unless she went for, and made winners on every single stroke of the match.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
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  25. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    serena made a name for herself and brought many new fans to the sport. who cares who she can beat or can't beat. all i hear is whiney country club brats who wont have half the impact that she does. as a fed and serena fan i don't need to compare them. besides that its unfair to compare women to men because of physical differences.
     
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  26. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    or maybe he is good at getting the ball back.....most practices aren't full speed.
     
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  27. dnj30

    dnj30 Semi-Pro

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    i just saw an old article where Clijsters(sp?) said that when she and Hewitt were a couple they would play, and she would have a tough time getting a point, let alone a game off him.
    I guess the difference in power is just so drastic, even for the hardest hitting women.
     
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  28. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

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    Some lower level ones, yes she would. Top ones, not even close.
    some D1 players are barely 5.0 (guys on the bench at lower D1 schools, not the top guys!). Top women players (pros) EASILY handle 5.0 men.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
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  29. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Hall of Fame

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    I used to coach the number five player in the world, women tennis and I would normally beat her 6-1,6-0. Todays womens players? Would probably have given me a real tough time.

    The funny thing about womens players is that they hate two things. Strong slice INTO the right hip(if they are right handers) and they don't handle a mans serve all that well, IF you can mix up the speed and spin.

    But, seriously? I think Serena would have real trouble with the top four mens division one mens players, real trouble. But the rest of them? Hmmm, she probably would have a good scrap with them, because of her court coverage. But that is at her PEAK.
     
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  30. spiderman123

    spiderman123 Professional

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    She would have beaten him in a game of tennis as well.
     
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  31. Hominator

    Hominator Hall of Fame

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    Hmm...how about prime Serena vs. current McEnroe?
     
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  32. rossi46

    rossi46 Professional

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    She would struggle with his second serve, forget about the first. Throw in his forays to the net. How would she even get to his drop volleys which he is a master of. That just spells absolute disaster for Serenass.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
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  33. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Better yet, prime Serena vs prime rib :)
     
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  34. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    This is true.

    However, I disagree with you saying that it is only whiny country club brats who discuss these things. A lot of people are taken in by Serena's immense power while playing tennis and they are simply inclined to think that with such power, Serena might be able to compete in the men's game.
     
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  35. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    #35
  36. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Peak Venus would have a better chance of taking a game or two or three off a lower ranked male pro / higher end challenger player.

    Venus is more athletic and better mover than Serena. Also Serena's peak serve is probably better vs top WTA players - she has better placement; but against a male pro Venus would get more service winners than Serena due to her higher pace and increased action of her serve.
     
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  37. dnj30

    dnj30 Semi-Pro

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    Good point. I remember when they both first hit the scene. I thought Venus would end up being the better player of the two. She does have the better tennis body of the 2.
     
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  38. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Krispy Kreme is very time consuming for her! :)
     
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  39. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Serena can open up the court better than Venus. Wins far more cheap points on her serve too. Venus at her best, forgetaboutit.
     
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  40. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Graf has a better shot than the Williams sisters.
     
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  41. purge

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    against other wta players yeah. in atp standards her serve would be nothing special at all. same with her groundstrokes. hardly anyone on the atp would tsruggle retrieving them. no cheap points
     
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  42. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i heard that Serena would play mixed doubles with Roddick at the Olympics. I think it would be difficult for the opposing teams to break the Serena-Roddick serves, esp. in doubles :)
     
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  43. jokinla

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    HAHAHA, finally a match she would dominate, prime rib wouldn't stand a chance.
     
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  44. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    And yet, I saw an extended tie-break on clay between Graf and he retired Noah ages ago. Noah wasn't really hitting through the ball (as much as he could hit it anyway, which wasn't much compared with today's game) and Graf struggled to win a single point. Still, she was handling herserlf pretty well as long as they were trading slices exo-mode, but the huge difference was the serve. Noah was kind of making third or fourth serves, and Graf could barely touch them, let alone bring them back into play. And they had trained together beforehand so she could make a good showing.

    So no, forget it. The physical difference is such that men and women are actually playing different sports.
     
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  45. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    Serena was like Ivo Karlovic-meets-David Nalbandian. Nobody had a bigger serve than hers when it was on, and the power/angles alone of nobody's groundstrokes could wear down and opponent over a complete match like hers could. She was always going to be a tough out for any female because of her power. She could have successfully played backup linebacker for a division 3 college men's American football program if she had been philosophically inclined towards feminism and making another kind of statement--how should other female tennis players have resisted such a rare combination of SIZE, speed, and athleticism?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
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  46. syc23

    syc23 Professional

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    Djokovic against Serena? Please... 60 61 60
     
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  47. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

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    See, I find this surprising (I don't doubt you, I just find it surprising).
    Women have marvelous timing and reflexes. Thus, I have found, women return serve far better than they serve. Top women players do not have that difficult of a time with excellent men's serves. The biggest difference between men and women is foot speed and serve speed/spin/angles.
    Sabine Lisicki can serve as hard as many top men but the ball simply does not have the movement of a top male serve. But a Sharapova/Serena could return a man's serve well, I should think.
    Watch high level mixed some time, and you will see Mattek-Sands, Vesnina, Pannetta, etc. do quite well returning some booming serves. The pace does not bother them. Serena would be a dream mixed doubles partner, given her serve, return of serve, and excellent doubles play.
     
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  48. nereis

    nereis Semi-Pro

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    It is much harder to win a point outright from the serve in doubles. Getting a first serve in is more crucial and the women can just set up to return without worrying about the changeup.
     
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  49. 813wilson

    813wilson Rookie

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  50. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I like women's tennis. I enjoy playing mixed doubles.

    But, Serena would get killed by any of the top 100 ATP pros. Not beaten but killed.

    Karsten Braasch killed Serena and Venus at Aussie open exo a few years ago. His high ranking was 38th but I think he was ranked 203 when he beat them. This guy was ranked as one of the "5 weirdest" games by Tennis Channel. He a had an ugly game.

    From Wikipdia:
    Braasch competed in a 'Battle of the Sexes' contest against Venus Williams and Serena Williams at the 1998 Australian Open when he was ranked 203. A decade and a half older than the sisters, Braasch "was a man whose training regime centred around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager."[1] He nonetheless handily defeated the sisters in an individual set, 6–1 on Serena, 6–2 on Venus, while rubbing it in by smoking cigarettes during the changeover.

    Chris Evertt once said the 1,000 man would defeat the number 1 women.

    Lindsey Davenport said her retired and out of shape husband use to beat her in practice while she was top 3 in the world.

    If top 1,000 ATP pros played top 1,000 WTA pros in relative postion order, the ATP pros would win every match barring an injury retirement.

    I enjoy watching a competive WTA match, but there is no comparison. Serena would lose to the top 1,000 ATP pros and I am sure there are guys ranked below 1,000 that could also beat her.
     
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