Serena vs. McEnroe Fantasy Match

Serena vs. McEnroe

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MatsPhilander

MatsPhilander

Legend
Serena Williams would struggle to be in the world's top 700 if she was on the men's circuit, according to seven-time Grand Slam champion John McEnroe.

And the male player ranked 701 in the world - Dmitry Tursunov - believes he could beat her too.

Speaking to US radio station NPR, McEnroe said of world number one Williams, who has won an Open-era record 23 Grand Slams: "If she played the men's circuit she'd be, like, 700 in the world."

He qualified the comments by saying: "That doesn't mean I don't think Serena is an incredible player, and I suppose anything's possible; maybe at some point a women's tennis player can be better than anybody."

But he added: "I just haven't seen that in any other sport, and I haven't seen it in tennis. If she had to just play the men's circuit, it would be an entirely different story."

Tursunov, 34, was once ranked as high as 20th in the world.

The Russian told BBC World Service Sport he did not think McEnroe was "trying to talk women's tennis down" but said "the reality" was that "men are stronger in general".

"I would hope that I would win against Serena," he added.

"It would be a similar argument to: who would run faster, the fastest woman or the fastest man? Tennis is becoming more and more a physical sport, so it's going to be hard for a woman to beat the men.

"It's not black and white, there are lots of factors to take into account. Physically I might not be in the best shape of my life but as an overall package I'm much better than my ranking would suggest. She is pregnant, and I'm not.

"I've never heard John say anything absolutely stupid - he knows his stuff. What he said about her being an incredible player is correct - explosive, powerful and she puts in a lot of work. But I would hope that I would win."
 
Tennis must be the only sport were idiot observers even contemplate that women can be competitive with men.

I don't think I've ever heard this in other sports.

Oh, and Kim Clijsters once admitted she could barely win a point in practice against her then-boyfriend Lleyton Hewitt.
 
TMF said:
That's because Serena is still an active player while the formers are long retired.
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Like clockwork, you're missing the point.
Post articles regarding the players I have mentioned being compared with men; then we can have a conversation.
 
heftylefty said:
Like clockwork, you're missing the point.
Post articles regarding the players I have mentioned being compared with men; then we can have a conversation.
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Hasn't Martina played against Connors and won a decent number of games than what Serena accomplished against the no name drunkard ?
 
tennisaddict said:
Hasn't Martina played against Connors and won a decent number of games than what Serena accomplished against the no name drunkard ?
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Did you go to school with TMF?

I'll type slower.

Post ...articles... regarding... the... players... I... have... mentioned... being... compared... with... men...; then... we... can... have... a... conversation.
 
Chadillac said:
Actually he isnt, she is an active player, the others arent...
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The point is that other great women players did not have to put up with this silliness that Serena endures. But maybe Mac is trying to say relevant. I personally think Mac should try to be more like Borg and just chill. But what am I thinking? Mac could never be as cool as the coolest tennis player that ever laced up a racquet.
 
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@tennisaddict .There's thing called Google. There you are able to search for all type of things. You posting an expo to two retirees does not satisfy my original request.

Has there been articles written comparing great female tennis players to their male counterparts? If not, why all of sudden Serena is held to this standard? So what if she can't beat 700th ranked player on the ATP. Why is she required to do so?

But there is a YouTube clip of Serena firing an ace by some guy from Serbia. He must be a scrub hack, right?
 
Aussie Darcy said:
McEnroe is just trying to stir up headlines for his lame book. He's again and again using Serena to promote this book. Dude needs to give it a rest.
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Do you not understand how an interview works? It's not like he went on twitter unprovoked and started bashing her to get headlines. He was asked about her and he answered the question honestly. Guess he should've said "no comment" instead?
 
heftylefty said:
@tennisaddict .There's thing called Google. There you are able to search for all type of things. You posting an expo to two retirees does not satisfy my original request.

Has there been articles written comparing great female tennis players to their male counterparts? If not, why all of sudden Serena is held to this standard? So what if she can't beat 700th ranked player on the ATP. Why is she required to do so?

But there is a YouTube clip of Serena firing an ace by some guy from Serbia. He must be a scrub hack, right?
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LOL. Shifting goalposts ? You asked for when another WTA player had to play against a male counterpart . I showed proof

FYI, Navratilova was very much active in 1992 and Connors was active in 1992 , was aged 40 and played his last aTP match in 1996.

So if Martina showed the spine and won 7 games in 2 sets, there seems to be nothing wrong if Johny McEnroe made the comment that he did on Serena

I think he kind of overrated Serena

Stak is right on this. Serena would win 1 game because Kyrgios is a gentleman
 
heftylefty said:
Wow. Can Mac keep Serena's name out of his mouth?

If you are not going to make the same comments about Steffi, Both Martinas, Christie or Billie, why even go there?
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To answer your question: No, Mac can't keep Serena's name out of this mouth because Mac is looking for a nice payday. Maybe he's not getting enough paper for the gate in those All-So-Exciting Powershare Made-for-TV hit-n-giggle-fest passing for competitive tennis.

Why don't he play Maria Sharapova? She's the most popular girl in tennis. I'm told she can put butts in the seats better than anyone, ever. I'm sure they could line of tons of sponsors, and even make it pay-per-view.
 
heftylefty said:
Like clockwork, you're missing the point.
Post articles regarding the players I have mentioned being compared with men; then we can have a conversation.
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No, you don't get it. The first player comes to Mac"s mind is Serena simply because she's an active player and the best player in current generation. He has nothing against Serena who is also from USA.

You're getting all upset for the wrong reason!
 
TennisLBC said:
The point is that other great women players did not have to put up with this silliness that Serena endures. But maybe Mac is trying to say relevant. I personally think Mac should try to be more like Borg and just chill. But what am I thinking? Mac could never be as cool as the coolest tennis player that ever laced up a racquet.
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Serena sort of forces it herself with that Nike ad plus other things. But god forbid actual tennis fans and professionals think differently,
 
tennisaddict said:
Hasn't Martina played against Connors and won a decent number of games than what Serena accomplished against the no name drunkard ?
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Dude, Serena was 16 years old at the time and Martina was a grown woman. At least give Serena a little credit. They each played a set and Serena won one game off of him and Venus won 2 games. That's actually not bad at all for 2 teenage girls to win games off a grown man who was ranked like #40 in the world a year before that. I think you're underestimating the Serena serve if you think she can't at least get a few games on the scoreboard.

Why is there another thread for this? Everything McEnroe said everybody already knows so I don't understand why this is such a hot topic. A woman is just not competition for a man in physically athletic sports and never will be.
 
NoleFam said:
Dude, Serena was 16 years old at the time and Martina was a grown woman. At least give Serena a little credit. They each played a set and Serena won one game off of him and Venus won 2 games. That's actually not bad at all for 2 teenage girls to win games off a grown man who was ranked like #40 in the world a year before that. I think you're underestimating the Serena serve if you think she can't at least get a few games on the scoreboard.

Why is there another thread for this? Everything McEnroe said everybody already knows so I don't understand why this is such a hot topic. A woman is just not competition for a man in physically athletic sports and never will be.
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Frankly number of games won against player X or Y is no metric to compare.

Heftylefty took this as some kind of McEnroe tirade against Serena, when in fact he has been very kind to her.

Hefty questioned why other past greats were not asked to play against counterparts to which I responded

I think some of this conparison is deserved because it is not enough for Serena and her fans for Serena to be called as one of the GOAT's or Best female athlete . They want an unequivocal 'Best athlete ever' of the 'greatest ever' which means these kind of debates are never going to end
 
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tennisaddict said:
Frankly number of games won against player X or Y is no metric to compare.

Heftylefty took this as some kind of McEnroe tirade against Serena, when in fact he has been very kind to her.

Hefty questioned why other past greats were not asked to play against counterparts to which I responded

I think some of this conparison is deserved becaiuse it is not enough for Serena and her fans for Serena to be called as one of the GOAT's or Best female athlete . They want an unequivocal 'Best athlete ever' of the 'greatest ever' which means these kind of debates are never going to end
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McEnroe actually used to be a **** towards them so I could understand some people reading what he said the wrong way. He challenged them both to a battle of the sexes tennis match around the year 2000 and they turned him down, but he has somewhat matured over time. A comparison is not necessary and pointless, especially when it comes to different genders in sports. Even if someone wanted to call her the greatest ever, which would be incorrect from an absolute measurement, everyone knows she would never beat Federer. That's what this all boils down to. Federer fans are so offended because someone would dare to call Serena the greatest ever. She is already is the greatest ever...in her sport. It's not that serious really.
 
tennisaddict said:
I think some of this conparison is deserved because it is not enough for Serena and her fans for Serena to be called as one of the GOAT's or Best female athlete . They want an unequivocal 'Best athlete ever' of the 'greatest ever' which means these kind of debates are never going to end
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It would be very impressive if you can back this claim up.

Or maybe, just maybe Serena haters need to find an opponent to crush her. See it can work both ways.
 
NoleFam said:
McEnroe actually used to be a **** towards them so I could understand some people reading what he said the wrong way. He challenged them both to a battle of the sexes tennis match around the year 2000 and they turned him down, but he has somewhat matured over time. A comparison is not necessary and pointless, especially when it comes to different genders in sports. Even if someone wanted to call her the greatest ever, which would be incorrect from an absolute measurement, everyone knows she would never beat Federer. That's what this all boils down to. Federer fans are so offended because someone would dare to call Serena the greatest ever. She is already is the greatest ever...in her sport. It's not that serious really.
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This is really not about Federer or what John had raised in the past.

The whole Nike ad was in bad taste .

She is the best athlete in her sport .. perhaps yes, but best athlete even amongst all women across sports - don't think so. So, if she is mentioned as the female greatest there is really no need for any more specificity
 
Federer is the greatest player period. Serena usually is faster and stronger than the players she plays against, not so with Federer, he plays guys faster, taller some 6'10", stronger but he beats them. He has all the shots more than Serena. When is the last time you saw Serena he a lob winner between her legs. I am a Nadal fan but you can't deny that Federer is the greatest tennis player.
 
heftylefty said:
It would be very impressive if you can back this claim up.

Or maybe, just maybe Serena haters need to find an opponent to crush her. See it can work both ways.
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This time I am going to ask you to do your home work.

Go and research how much flak GQ took for calling Federer as the greatest athlete , when in fact they just meant Fed as GOAT in ATP. Fed doesn't really want to be told specifically that he is better than all men AND also all women
 
tennisaddict said:
This is really not about Federer or what John had raised in the past.

The whole Nike ad was in bad taste .

She is the best athlete in her sport .. perhaps yes, but best athlete even amongst all women across sports - don't think so. So, if she is mentioned as the female greatest there is really no need for any more specificity
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Well I have not even seen the Nike ad so I have no idea. I like and respect Serena but I don't follow her every move or everything she does or says, so you may be a bigger fan of her than you think. ;)

Well a debate about who is the greatest female athlete is worth talking about but this topic is not. The fact that anyone is even having this conversation is the ultimate compliment to Serena and what she stands for, because she doesn't have a chance against a top male player.
 
fundrazer said:
No I think it's the one @Chadillac posted...The one that calls her "greatest athlete ever."
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So Nike called her the greatest athlete ever and somehow it mean Serena must beat a man. Is that what you are saying? Look, I'm not interested in misrepresenting what you are saying. I just think it's silly Serena, is being compared to male athletes. We won't do to female swimmers, track and field athletes, football players (Soccer for those in 'merica). So why her? And please, don't say she bring this on herself. That's such a dogwhistle response.
 
mac can't keep his mouth shut about serena? well what is he supposed to do when interviewers keep asking him about serena? he's not the one bringing her up..
 
NoleFam said:
Well I have not even seen the Nike ad so I have no idea. I like and respect Serena but I don't follow her every move or everything she does or says, so you may be a bigger fan of her than you think. ;)

Well a debate about who is the greatest female athlete is worth talking about but this topic is not. The fact that anyone is even having this conversation is the ultimate compliment to Serena and what she stands for, because she doesn't have a chance against a top male player.
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I have enormous respect for what Serena has accomplished in the last few years. It is insane .

I do think a lot of Serena debates happen because lot of her fans and support are from people of color, who unfortunately have been treated poorly historically and naturally they are sensitive, touchy and look for issues even when there are none. I don't blame it .
 
tennisaddict said:
I have enormous respect for what Serena has accomplished in the last few years. It is insane .

I do think a lot of Serena debates happen because lot of her fans and support are from people of color, who unfortunately have been treated poorly historically and naturally they are sensitive, touchy and look for issues even when there are none. I don't blame it .
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I wouldn't make this a race thing because you would be surprised who support Serena. They are from all walks of life and in every corner of the world. Her white fans will go just as hard for her as the black ones, although she does have a lot of black fans because they relate to her and her struggle to the top.
 
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heftylefty said:
From Serena Williams herself she said four years ago:

"The men are a lot faster and they serve harder, they hit harder. It's just a different game. I love to play women's tennis. I only want to play girls, because I don't want to be embarrassed."

/thread
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Does Johnny Mac NOT know how to use Google? Dude got into Sanford! Did Nike rename his building after Serena?
 
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