Serena Wiiliams vs Carlos Ramos poll

Serena Wiiliams vs Carlos Ramos:Who got it right?

  • S Williams

    Votes: 8 2.5%
  • C Ramos

    Votes: 264 81.2%
  • N Osaka

    Votes: 53 16.3%

  • Total voters
    325

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Loved the USA Today's article by Josh Peter that defended Ramos' conduct and decisions!!! Check it out!
Note sure i follow the writer here.

"While there’s no doubt Williams has endured sexism and racism throughout her long and historic career..."

Not even Williams brought race into the incident.

Why does he need to?
 

checkmilu

Rookie
Next time when Serena plays at the USO, they should organise a female+black+mom referee to handle her matches and see what excuses will she come up with when losing! Maybe, "you steal my points and game because I'm American...your f*king liar b*tch" we never know, but for sure, the checklist for her referees with get longer every year, because she is a real smart *ss
 

AM75

Hall of Fame
Look at what Pliskova did to the umpires chair in Rome, she got a slap on the wrist and most people thought she was cool for doing so. Had that been Serena..
Pliskova attacked the chair after the match. I bet if she'd do it during the match she would at least have a warning, but most likely she'd be disqualified. And on the other hand Vanderweghe didn't get her bananas and was warned twice during the AO. Wasn't it sexist not to bring a woman a banana she needed and punished her for the fact she was angry about that?
 

smash hit

Professional
you have a point, but Carlos is known to enforce the rules. Nadal said Carlos "would never umpire his matches again". .
Yes Carlos Ramos is known to enforce the rules, but Nadal did not say that Ramos would never umpire his matches again. This is what he actually said,

Rafael Nadal hits out at umpire Carlos Ramos after fourth-round French Open win
George Bellshaw for Metro.co.ukSunday 4 Jun 2017 4:14 pm

Rafael Nadal has expressed his dissatisfaction at umpire Carlos Ramos taking a serve off him for a time violation during his fourth-round win over Roberto Bautista Agut at the French Open.


The world No. 4 was unhappy with the manner of the call and hinted he felt targeted by Ramos for the decision.

Nadal was called up on the rule once during the opening set and again during the third, which led to him losing a first serve and forced to just have a second.

But while the fourth seed was happy to secure a 6-1 6-2 6-2 win against his compatriot, he couldn’t help but have a sour taste left in his mouth from the decision.

‘Well, what can I say? I’m not satisfied with this, of course,’ he said after the match. ‘But it’s not something new. There are umpires who sometimes put more pressure than others, and you’ll have to accept this. That’s all.

‘All things being equal, well, there are people who love being involved in the match. I, for one, don’t think it’s a good thing for me.. The rules are the rules, and this is it. This is a rule that we have.

‘Theoretically the umpires are here to analyze the match and they are not here to use the stopwatch, otherwise we should have a stopwatch on the court. That’s the whole point.

‘Some dictate things or give their calls in a certain way. Other umpires have different styles. It happened in the past. I remember this pressure in the past, because I take time before I serve. I have received pressure when I serve.

‘Sometimes I feel I’m under pressure during the whole match, and this was a five I remember it was a five, a best-of-five sets match, a very tough match.

‘If you want to play well, you have to let players breathe a little. We’re not machines. We’re not machines that cannot think. That’s my viewpoint. But of course I fully respect other views and other points of view.

‘What else can I say? I’m telling you this with some type of sadness, because I don’t want to have any problems. But this umpire is, I think, trying, in a certain way, to look for my faults, my errors. This is the impression I have. Of course he’s put pressure on coaching, but frankly, I don’t know.

‘What I told him, the only thing I told him, is that he will have to give me many warnings, because if I can’t even – I have not yet grabbed my towel, that he’s going to give me a warning.

‘Never mind what’s happened on the court will stay on the court. I respect him a lot. No problem.

‘But I think it should work both ways.’



Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/rafael-na ... z4j7fDnRX0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
 

joekapa

Legend
She most likely doesn‘t care.
Serena is an ATG. We expect more from her.

What dissapointed me most, is that KNOWING she was losing, she ended up using the

1) Mother card. Like there are no other mothers out there. She has one child, with all tha nannies and comforts required for her to continue her career.
2) The woman/sexism card.

She didn't use the racism card, because he opponent was Japanese. If it was a caucasian across the net, you would be she would of used it.
 

CYGS

Legend
Serena is an ATG. We expect more from her.

What dissapointed me most, is that KNOWING she was losing, she ended up using the

1) Mother card. Like there are no other mothers out there. She has one child, with all tha nannies and comforts required for her to continue her career.
2) The woman/sexism card.

She didn't use the racism card, because he opponent was Japanese. If it was a caucasian across the net, you would be she would of used it.
I really hope Ramos comes out as gay and handicapped in some way, as it seems like the only way to win an argument nowadays in this crazy world ruled by SJWs.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
I agree that rules are applied very variably among umps. But this shouldn't be an excuse for any player to throw a major tantrum when they are correclty applied. Especially when it is done by an ump who has a reputation for consistently doing so.
Exactly .
Surely that's just common sense.
 

Rabe87

Professional
Pliskova attacked the chair after the match. I bet if she'd do it during the match she would at least have a warning, but most likely she'd be disqualified. And on the other hand Vanderweghe didn't get her bananas and was warned twice during the AO. Wasn't it sexist not to bring a woman a banana she needed and punished her for the fact she was angry about that?
Clearly you're not reading between the lines. Had Serena bashed an Umpires chair with her racquet making her opponent wince at the net post-match, she'd be condemned to Compton and back. Don't pretend like there isn't uneven treatment meted out to players, it does you a disservice.
 

Rabe87

Professional
Did someone say Serena is an ATG? Lol. Love her or loathe her, she's the undisputed GOAT, nobody else has won 23 slams in the Open Era and nobody has had the total package like she has.
 

CYGS

Legend
Next time when Serena plays at the USO, they should organise a female+black+mom referee to handle her matches and see what excuses will she come up with when losing! Maybe, "you steal my points and game because I'm American...your f*king liar b*tch" we never know, but for sure, the checklist for her referees with get longer every year, because she is a real smart *ss
And lesbian too so any abuse directed to her, she can play the victim card as protection.
 

AM75

Hall of Fame
Clearly you're not reading between the lines. Had Serena bashed an Umpires chair with her racquet making her opponent wince at the net post-match, she'd be condemned to Compton and back. Don't pretend like there isn't uneven treatment meted out to players, it does you a disservice.
She did almost the same on Saturday, and did worse things before, she had attacked an Asian woman, and look - she‘s a feminist and anti racist hero and an exemplary mother figure.

Anyway I bet she would be celebrated for this attack as a person who had courage to destroy patriarchal symbols ot white dominance.

Question is though why Pliskova wasn’t celebrated? Is it because she’s white and from the Eastern Europe and has no daughter?
 
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MLRoy

Hall of Fame
I think I would have been more angry/disgusted with a man doing that.

Somehow- I feel I am more apt to feel more compassion for a woman in a situation like that.

Maybe that’s latent sexism.

But a guy would have looked even more like a bully to me.
Women get away with murder. They always have, and never more so than now. I know, because I'm a very prolific "murderess". Not in Williams's league of course. Even Lizzie Borden isn't in Williams's league. Any male acting like THAT, would've been fined A LOT more than her pocket-change slight finger-wag of a fine. They'd be suspended for several months, and have to take anger therapy, along with being vilified by the TV bobbleheads instead of defended by them ("Everyone does it (coaching)!"). B. is behind the times. There's a lot more misandry in the West, than misogyny. You know, those "evil old white men" who created the Western world, and treat women 10000% better that the Eastern world, that psychotic progrossive females "fear" so much? Do you ever hear them complaining about burqas and, pardon the expression, "clitectomies"?! Not the ones "afraid" of evil old white men, you don't. Don't buy the misogyny excuse men of North America and Europe.
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
I wonder how the 19 people who voted for Osaka would vote if she wasn't a polling option?

I must admit that I'm pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of votes for Ramos given how vocal Williams supporters have been on threads.
 
I wonder how the 19 people who voted for Osaka would vote if she wasn't a polling option?

I must admit that I'm pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of votes for Ramos given how vocal Williams supporters have been on threads.
As a result of this brouhaha, I now wear a portrait of a chair umpire as my avatar.
 
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Omega_7000

Legend
This is why illegal coaching, time limit violations, racquet smashes need to be penalized 100% of the time and not selectively based on the discretion of the umpire.
 

Wander

Professional
Note sure i follow the writer here.

"While there’s no doubt Williams has endured sexism and racism throughout her long and historic career..."

Not even Williams brought race into the incident.

Why does he need to?
Does it need to be scrutinized? The writer probably wanted to highlight that Serena has in the past faced discrimination due to more than one factor. Perhaps there was no need to mention it in this piece, but I don't think the fact that he did invalidates anything either.
 

AM75

Hall of Fame
Loved the USA Today's article by Josh Peter that defended Ramos' conduct and decisions!!! Check it out!
"During the three previous Grand Slams — the French Open, Wimbledon and Australian Open — men were assessed 59 code violations, almost twice as many as the women. The men were issued violations for coaching nine times and the most common violation was abuse of racket/equipment 19 times."
 

Sudacafan

Talk Tennis Guru
Sub-poll:
Naomi Osaka has been included as an option in the Williams vs Ramos poll to:
A) Substract votes from Ramos
B) Substract votes from Serena
C) Show dislike of polls with only two options
 

Alba Barragan

Professional
And who said this had nothing to do with racism?
I don't have a particular problem with the way the artist portrayed Serena, 'cause as @Mr.Lob pointed out, that's the way caricatures kinda work:

Caricature:

ˈkerikəCHər, ˈkerikəˌCHo͝or]
NOUN
  1. a picture, description, or imitation of a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.
    "there are elements of caricature in the portrayal of the hero" ·
This seemed to be what the artist was going for. While insensitive, you would need to be inside the artists head to make a definite case for racism. Seems like political cartoonist do this all the time. If it offends people, all the better. Helps sell papers..
But I do agree with you that there's some racism in them. And it's not displayed in the way Serena looks, but in the way in which the artist whitewashed Mohamed (who isn't white) and Naomi (who is also not white, nor does she have straight hair, and her physique doesn't look like that). Those who did nothing wrong in the circumstances are given physical attributes of white people, when they could simply be portrayed the way they are, without having their physical features exaggerated or changed.
 

MLRoy

Hall of Fame
Does every person who goes over the speed limit get a ticket? No. Sometimes you get caught sometimes you don't. If you do you accept it and move on with your life and not throw a massive fit then blame some kind of discrimination when you know you broke the rules.
If she ever got stopped for speeding, you know the first words out of her gob would be, "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AAAAAMM?!"
 
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