Serena Williams congratulates Novak Djokovic

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Her matches at most can take 3 hours; his can take 5 and 6 hours, and have. More challenging for her...sure.
She had to be much more versatile to play doubles.

Djokovic never won the BO3 Olympics either so he can never be compared with great athletes
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Which makes me wonder how will she react when (i mean IF) Novak captures CYGS this year! Will she properly acknowledge it this time or it will be yet another cryptic short response like this...
Djokovic will lose in the US Open semifinals to the "Sara Errani" of men's tennis to complete the similarities with the Williams' younger sister.
:giggle:
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
She had to be much more versatile to play doubles.

Djokovic never won the BO3 Olympics either so he can never be compared with great athletes
Singles and doubles are two different things. Great of her to do well at it, but none of the big 3 are legends because of doubles.

Yea Massu and Rosset are greater athletes than Sampras and Djokovic.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Singles and doubles are two different things. Great of her to do well at it, but none of the big 3 are legends because of doubles.

Yea Massu and Rosset are greater athletes than Sampras and Djokovic.
I play singles and doubles and can handle both at a high level. That is why I emphasize versatility.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
I give Rena all the credit in the world, but she ain't no father. Father of two, no less.

A mother creates a kid inside her body during 9 months, Serena had to do that and it cost her some slams, Djokovic did not have to undergo that, his wife Jelena bore the kids and raised them while he managed to win slams, so there is no comparison, Serena has every right to feel that she is greater than Big 3, not that it makes sense but nobody could argue otherwise. She is the best in her field.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
A mother creates a kid inside her body during 9 months, Serena had to do that and it cost her some slams, Djokovic did not have to undergo that, his wife Jelena bore the kids and raised them while he managed to win slams, so there is no comparison, Serena has every right to feel that she is greater than Big 3, not that it makes sense but nobody could argue otherwise. She is the best in her field.

Oh yeh sure she has that right given she was the overall dominant force in the women's game for an inordinate amount of time. I don't tend to mix the men and the women though, as they play on different tours (for obvious reasons). Serena's peak level relative to her field sometimes made her look superhuman - 2012 Olympics comes to mind.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Oh yeh sure she has that right given she was the overall dominant force in the women's game for an inordinate amount of time. I don't tend to mix the men and the women though, as they play on different tours (for obvious reasons). Serena's peak level relative to her field sometimes made her look superhuman - 2012 Olympics comes to mind.

Yeah she has ruled the field for 20 years and her longevity is also top class

Longest Span between 1st grand slam singles final and last grand slam singles final in the open era

01. Serena Williams - 20 years [1999 US open to 2019 US Open]
02. Venus Williams - 19 years 11 months [1997 US open to 2017W]
03. Martina Navratilova - 19.5 years [1975AO to 1994W]
04. Rafael Nadal - 17 years [2005 RG to 2022 RG]
05. Roger Federer - 16 years [ 2003W to 2019W ]
06. Novak Djokovic - 15 years 9months [2007USO to 2023FO]
07. Andre Agassi - 15 years 3 months [1990RG to 2005USO]
08. Chris Evert - <15 years [73RG to 88AO]
09. Steffi Graf - 12 years 2 months [1987RG to 1999W]
10. Peter Sampras - 12 years [1990 USO to 2002 USO]
11. Maria Sugarpova - 10.5 years [2004W to 2015AO]
12. Boris Becker - 10.5 years [1985W to 1996AO]
13. Jimmy Connors - 10.5 years [1973AO to 1984W]
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Djokovic scored most of his slams against Federer and Nadal while Federer scored most of his slams against Roddick, Hewitt, Baggy, Davy, Ljubi...

@Razer This is easily disproved and laughably so.

Djokovic has been in 34 slam finals. He played either Nadal or Fed in 14 of those finals. He played others in 20 of them.

Fed has been in 31 slam finals. He played either Rafa or Djoker in 14 of those finals. He played others in 17 of them.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
@Razer This is easily disproved and laughably so.

Djokovic has been in 34 slam finals. He played either Nadal or Fed in 14 of those finals. He played others in 20 of them.

Fed has been in 31 slam finals. He played either Rafa or Djoker in 14 of those finals. He played others in 17 of them.

These numbers look similar but Federer quickly won a lot of his slams in the beginning before djokovic/nadal hit their prime by 08, Roger was on 12 slams during USO 2007 and we remember novak choking heavily in that final, nadal was yet to make a HC final in his life, on grass federer won 4 wimbledons before 07, even though he did face nadal in 06 the nadal in wimbly final was a rookie. Thats why whenever Fed fans bring up career inflation we have to remind them of the early-mid 00s.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
She is not salty, she is just too proud.

She sees herself as a person with 30-32 slam potential and she feels if not for pregnancy then she could have won a slam close to 40.

So in her mind she is clearly superior, it is not salt, it is some form of superiority complex :p
A fair point except two of Serena's biggest rivals chose to undertake that responsibility over a decade before Serena did, (and came back and still played Serena very tough or even outright beat her) which played a large part in Serena having no serious rivals for a decade.
 

Holmes

Hall of Fame
Overrated to high heaven by a generation of "new school" tennis fans trying to spit on the old guard, piled up unspeakable numbers in trash eras, general victim mentality, very uncouth and unrefined on court behavior.

Very astute observation.
Who said Fed?
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
It's record of the Open era.
That should have been specified, because the "open era" marker means nothing for the women's game, there was no transitional field change as in the men's game.

The women's game was always "open" with the exception of just one or two significant players.

The records of Court and King and Lenglen should be included in the record total.

The same restriction should apply to Djokovic, because his record was more clearly influenced by the Open Era marker.

Djokovic's record should be described as an Open Era record only.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Someone who is famous for being one of the biggest trolls on this forum telling others to be adult, LMFAO!! Thanks for the laughs.

And 1991 was such a peak year for Graf with a 6-2, 6-0 loss in a slam semi final to Sanchez Vicario, 5 straight losses to Sabatini, a loss to 34 year old Navratilova in a slam semi final, and 3 losses to Jana Novotna. If you actually knew womens tennis (which you don't) you would know how ridiculous the whole premise of what you are saying is in the first place. You might as well call 2017 a peak year for Djokovic.
It says you joined in April. What would you know about anything troll if you're really a "new user"? Just another troll using a DA to post things he doesn't have the gall to post on his real account. How pathetic.
 

TheNachoMan

Legend
7pl8vu.jpg
:-D
 

Enceladus

Legend
That should have been specified, because the "open era" marker means nothing for the women's game, there was no transitional field change as in the men's game.

The women's game was always "open" with the exception of just one or two significant players.

The records of Court and King and Lenglen should be included in the record total.

The same restriction should apply to Djokovic, because his record was more clearly influenced by the Open Era marker.

Djokovic's record should be described as an Open Era record only.
What a demagogy. (n):rolleyes:

The Open era is not only a combination of two separate circuits into one tour, but above all it brought about a change of the state when tennis became a job for the players as a whole.

The women's game has always been open lol. Althea Gibson had a different opinion on this and her opinion is more relevant than yours on this topic.

I don't know where you got the idea that Djokovic's record only covers the Open era. You should visit Wikipedia.
 
Unlike Serena, Novak will actually win #24.

Serena really only has herself to blame. She dropped so many super winnable finals, even given her age. I think she let herself get paralyzed by the obsession of #24 and underperformed badly in every single slam final or big slam match at that point, regardless whether she would have won or lost in each given case. I don't see that happening with Djokovic at all.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
What a demagogy. (n):rolleyes:

The Open era is not only a combination of two separate circuits into one tour, but above all it brought about a change of the state when tennis became a job for the players as a whole.

The women's game has always been open lol. Althea Gibson had a different opinion on this and her opinion is more relevant than yours on this topic.

I don't know where you got the idea that Djokovic's record only covers the Open era. You should visit Wikipedia.
I have been there, I know the Wiki story.
Wiki does not allow a comparison of rankings of the pre-Open or even Open era if they are not point rankings.
By the same logic, the pre-Open era with the split fields and the best players not included in the majors is such a different world that you cannot compare slam counts from pre-1968 with the slam counts today, That just makes no sense.

Slam counts does not give an indication of all-time greatness.

Althea Gibson? She had zero pro field players to compete against, you cannot be serious. I think that she was well up in years, 31 years old, before turning pro in a non-pro women's tennis world.

The women's field was unified in the sixties, and there was a seamless transition to open tennis in 1968, no difference in the strength of fields, unlike the men.
 
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zvelf

Hall of Fame
Serena had Venus, Kim, Justine all as her competitors. Her competition from late 1990s till 2010 is goaty, the hardest in WTA history.
Serena did indeed have very tough competition starting in the late 90s, but the tough competition ended after 2007. Seles retired in 2003, Hingis mostly retired in 2003 as well (at age 22!), Capriati retired in 2004 (at age 28), Davenport basically played singles tennis part-time after 2006 due to motherhood and retired in 2008, Henin also retired in early 2008 (at age 26 while she was ranked #1!), and Mauresmo retired in 2009. Clijsters retired in 2007 (at the age of 23!), a year in which she barely played. She came back in late 2009 and retired again in 2012 though she played a light schedule this entire period back. Add to that, Venus was revealed to have Sjögrens Syndrome in 2011 and didn't reach another major final until 2017. Serena won 8 slams in a very strong era from 1999-2007 and 15 from 2008-2017, a very weak era when players like Dinara Safina, Caroline Wozniacki, Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic, and Karolina Pliskova reached #1.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Serena did indeed have very tough competition starting in the late 90s, but the tough competition ended after 2007. Seles retired in 2003, Hingis mostly retired in 2003 as well (at age 22!), Capriati retired in 2004 (at age 28), Davenport basically played singles tennis part-time after 2006 due to motherhood and retired in 2008, Henin also retired in early 2008 (at age 26 while she was ranked #1!), and Mauresmo retired in 2009. Clijsters retired in 2007 (at the age of 23!), a year in which she barely played. She came back in late 2009 and retired again in 2012 though she played a light schedule this entire period back. Add to that, Venus was revealed to have Sjögrens Syndrome in 2011 and didn't reach another major final until 2017. Serena won 8 slams in a very strong era from 1999-2007 and 15 from 2008-2017, a very weak era when players like Dinara Safina, Caroline Wozniacki, Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic, and Karolina Pliskova reached #1.
A fair point except two of Serena's biggest rivals chose to undertake that responsibility over a decade before Serena did, (and came back and still played Serena very tough or even outright beat her) which played a large part in Serena having no serious rivals for a decade.

While you both are right, Serena's competition did fall off the rails as her rivals approached 30, that further explains how difficult it is for women to win slams in 30s unlike men. So if Serena did not have rivals in her 30s then it means she has earned the right to that by being too dominant, isn't it ?

Winning slams 30+ for ladies is very very very hard and look what she has done.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
While you both are right, Serena's competition did fall off the rails as her rivals approached 30, that further explains how difficult it is for women to win slams in 30s unlike men. So if Serena did not have rivals in her 30s then it means she has earned the right to that by being too dominant, isn't it ?

Winning slams 30+ for ladies is very very very hard and look what she has done.
Not really, it was basically a given to be highly successful in your 30s as a dominant female player IF you put off having kids, both Evert and Navratilova did it. Until the big 3 ridiculousness, only Agassi managed to scratch out multiple slams past 30 in modern open era and he obviously had fewer miles on him than the other great players.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Not really, it was basically a given to be highly successful in your 30s as a dominant female player IF you put off having kids, both Evert and Navratilova did it. Until the big 3 ridiculousness, only Agassi managed to scratch out multiple slams past 30 in modern open era and he obviously had fewer miles on him than the other great players.

You are right but it does take great sacrifice to prolong having kids and go as far as she did, Navratilova is lesbian, she did not have the burden of having a kid, evert did prolong but not too long, serena was the one chasing all these 23-24 type numbers, she did stretch her body clock to the limit and had a kid later on at 35, then she returned and reached a final.... we need to give her credit for having a body as strong as she has to do all this, sure her rivals were all gone but we give her no credit for being the only one playing at the highest level and winning slams in this modern era where tennis is a grindfest at every level and it is much more taxing on the body in this era than previous eras. Keeping all that in mind we need to respect Serena instead of brushing off her 2010s as a weak era.
 
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DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
It is far more difficult to be a slam winner past 30 if you are a mother, rather than a father. Margret Court won 3 slams past 30, as a mother.
Of course it is, but it has already been said repeatedly that Serena Williams' motherhood cost her the dream of surpassing Margaret Court's record 24 GS titles.
:notworthy:
 

Subway Tennis

G.O.A.T.
You are right but it does take great sacrifice to prolong having kids and go as far as she did, Navratilova is lesbian, she did not have the burden of having a kid, evert did prolong but not too long, serena was the one chasing all these 23-24 type numbers, she did stretch her body clock to the limit and had a kid later on at 35, then she returned and reached a final.... we need to give her credit for having a body as strong as she has to do all this, sure her rivals were all gone but we give her no credit for being the only one playing at the highest level and winning slams in this modern era where tennis is a grindfest at every level and it is much more taxing on the body in this era than previous eras. Keeping all that in mind we need to respect Serena instead of brushing off her 2010s as a weak era.

It’s a very impressive achievement for sure. I think Serena’s last Australian Open title was actually won while she was in the early stages of her first pregnancy. o_O

People make all sorts of excuses to try and minimise what Serena has done, but there are very few athletes in tennis that have had the same mixture of hyper athleticism, power, self-belief, “clutchness” and all court game who could play such an attacking style of tennis while maintaining such a high shot tolerance.

She is the 1% of the 1% and we are just lucky as tennis fans that she ended up playing this sport.
 
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