THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
No.
Serena Williams' last match: The Most Watched Tennis Match in ESPN's History
- Thread starter Lozo1016
- Start date
No.
Hoi Polloi
Professional
Serena will be forgotten in 20 years.
Even Steffi will be forgotten in 100 years. But not Queen Elizabeth.
Like I said to another poster, Serena worshipper can't see/think straight. It's like ESPN/USA is the only place and source that exist and everything is completely isolated them from the rest of the world.
I reckon that Serena worshippers are more upset at her failing to get the #24, more upset than Nadal fans after his lost to Tiafoe, more upset than Djoker fans after knowing Nole was not allow to enter the US
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
I did not mention Serena. I'm addressing your post:
..and again, no one is going to care what anyone has to say about Elizabeth's passing. If you think "most" of the world's population cares what anyone will say about her death, you are seriously mistaken.
FrontHeadlock
Hall of Fame
Part of what Serena fans don't understand is just how much the U.S. media dotes/fixates on her, and cleanses her faults. It's really kind of grotesque in a way.
So yes, people who don't like Serena are a bit more vocal in their feelings, but it's truthfully and equal and opposite reaction to those who dote on her, who tend to (i) ignore all her problems, of which there are many, and (ii) approach every set of facts in a light most favorable to Serena while doing the opposite for her opponents (i.e., Seles getting stabbed totally overrates Graf, while the early retirements of players like Hingis, Clijsters, Henin, Capriati, Davenport, etc. had no impact on Serena).
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Hoi Polloi
Professional
Yes, a 70-year-long reign is impressive in itself!
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yeah, that too. Doubt that will be broken ever.
I think he remembers correctly and is quoting two different occasions. So it has always been USO where Serena pulled out a stunt knowing the crowd will back her up. I remember one against Stosur (final), against Clijsters (semi final), and osaka (final) and the last one is the only finals which has been removed from YouTube. It just has the highlights because the complete match has an evidence of her eye contact which establishes the fact that she was knowingly lying.
This is one example of hype that is given by American media (across the world and not just limited to USA) and so the records also stay in the archives where next generation would only read such distorted facts. You have given example of Germany, the population of USA is also 5 times that of UK. The 2019 Wimbledon final of Federer was watched by 9.6M people in UK. The Emma Raducanu's final was watched by 9.2M people (peaked at 12.4M) in the UK.That are surprisingly low numbers.
Maybe only TV without internet streaming (can that even be counted)?
I mean the USA has a population of about 340 million.
And then only 4.8 million viewers? Serena‘s last match???
That is not even 1.5 percent of all Americans!
I remember that in the late 80s Davis Cup matches with the German team regularly had 6 to 8 million viewers in Germany. The cake took again - who else? - good old Steffi.
Or better good young Steffi in her 87 YEC final against Sabatini. It was broadcast in prime time in Germany (8 p.m.) and had more than 10 million viewers! West Germany had a population of about 60 million then. So 16 % of Germans watched Steffi winning her first YEC title!
16 % in Germany with Graf vs. 1.5 % in the USA with Williams.
Its the USA and its tennis. These are good numbers for Tennis in the USA. Thats all the article is saying. No one is distorting anything. Tennis is not very popular to watch in the United States. Its not hyping anything.
I understand what you are saying but with due respect, you should also understand what i mean because the headlines shows as if it was the most watched match. An average reader will not do an analysis like we have seen on this forum. And this hype is just an example. The greatest ever in men or women? come on, that's the biggest hype there could ever be. A player with absolutely no singles meaningful record. Greatness comes with achievements and accomplishments. She has many, but leads in none.
Just because she starts fighting and takes a head on with anyone anytime, no body also wants to criticise that as well.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Serena is epic
I dont really care. Im not sure why people get so annoyed at some of this stuff. Its just media saying things. She had the highest rated match. Thats a fact. Its sort of a big thing for 4 million people to be watching a third round or 2nd round whatever this was match in the USA. Is it a little overhyped? Probably, but good lord its just the media talking about a sporting event.
Yes my friend. I agree. There would never be any other player so hyped up with literally zero "lead/ standalone" accomplishment. Would be interested to know any of her all time lead achievement which is meaningful. Like it's not about years between her first and last slam which doesn't say anything neither be the oldest number one. Some accomplishment /metric where she is above the rest
(Even there is no slam in Switzerland, but since you like ifs and buts, so allow me one too, had Federer just announced (without any media planning like Serena's) his retirement before playing wimbledon, it would have been the biggest moment in tennis history. Federer cannot be compared with Serena Williams)
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Considering the history of this board and other pits of social media, there's only one reason some are annoyed (read: enraged) at the truth of Serena's record-breaking ratings. Only one, and its been championed by several of the subversive types who posted and/or "liked" anti-Serena posts, which are never, ever based on fact, historical records, or anything else one can use to consider or judge a subject / situation.
Meanwhile, the figurehead for and supporter of the barbaric terror known as colonization actually has cheerleaders in this thread. Telling in the extreme.
My friend, this is sports. There is nothing like anti-serene or anti-Nadal. It's all about supporting facts. After all, no one here on this forum is related to any player. SO as you have mentioned, lets discuss historical records for Serena as to how come she is greatest of all times when any possible metric doesn't support this claim
Im just so tired of people attempting to downplay someones greatness for stupid reasons. Im not even a guy who claims she is the best ever. I think she is one of the best ever. Its always this attempt to put someone above someone else and try and degrade them. The whole idea of the modern media or fans declaring every athlete playing now the GOAT is tiresome. But I just accept it. Its the way it is. And tennis fans are some of they worst with this type of stuff. Basically and the media does this to you are not really even arguing that these modern players are the best ever. Everyone is arguing that these players are the best ever since about 1982. Thats when the tour became something that we recognize today.
And even then more so on the Men's side the way the tour is run is way different than it was even back in the 80s. I dont know just tired of it.
Are you equally annoyed by Federer hype and Federer “worship”? He doesn’t have the lead in any standalone accomplishments.
Please google and find. Federer has many. In respect of OP, since this thread is not about Federer, I would let you search on your own. Or please feel free to open a new thread for Federer (or may be Federer vs Serena and I will contribute)
Ok. I’m just not buying your line of argument. If you want to say a large part of Serena hype is race and gender based, I’m going to agree. But, even though I find the constant beating of these drums distasteful, it doesn’t mean that I don’t acknowledge the greatness of Serena.
I have not said that Serena has zero accomplishments; have I? She is great but not the greatest. And your or my agreement doesn't count here. I have simply asked for any meaningful metric in which Serena is all time lead (stand alone). Nobody answers, and instead her fans just belittle the achievements of other great players.
I always speak up if accomplishment of any great tennis player is distorted to take the due credit away.
Gotcha. I’m sure you’ll hook someone. Good luck.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
Serena has more majors than anyone in the Open Era. That will more than do.
In another thread you kept talking about how we must stay present and not engage in hypotheticals. Remember that? As expected, you are inconsistent. You will say anything to support your favorites at the expense of those you don't like. Nothing new here.
Serena's retirement was a bigger deal than Federer's. Deal with it.
People are always going to have opinions on who is the greatest. As does the media in any particular country. She was one of the best. Cant we just leave it at that and quit trying to break down every number from different eras? I have said that Evert and Navs probably dont get enough credit because of the Eras they played in. But I cant just say well they are better than Serena either. Because there are a million variables.
Thanks for answering my question. She has none. All her stand alone achievements (if any) are with 'ifs and buts' like your arguments. Highest slams in the open era or winning streak after 2010.
I think you haven't read my response. I just said here, that I don't like ifs and buts but since you do that, so allow me for once. and did it because there was no point of comparing Federer with Serena
upchuck
Hall of Fame
I can't help you if distinguishing the Open Era from the amateur era is too much of a distinction for you.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Although limited differences in that very few women played a separate tour before tennis became open. It's nearly all the same champions from the early 60s to 70s, unlike the men who had two very separate tours.
With utmost respect and by no way an insult, I want to tell you that I am watching tennis probably before you were born, so very well aware of the open era and its history. @PDJ has elaborated on what I said in post 129
Again there are way to many variables. Even when I argue, that Evert and Navs got jobbed because of the era they played in. They also got a little lucky cause Tracy Austin was coming on strong and then crashed out with career ending injuries. She was done at like 20 years old. In the end Serena had 23 slams.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
No thanks, I still can’t forget how she got a free pass after saying racial slurs and threatening to kill that lines woman.
She should have been Kanye cancelled immediately after that insanity.
Imagine if a white male American player said that trash to a black lines woman SMDH
She should have been Kanye cancelled immediately after that insanity.
Imagine if a white male American player said that trash to a black lines woman SMDH
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
To be clear, their reason are born of the worst kind of human beliefs, having nothing to do with tennis.
Clearly.
One especially pathetic example can be found with a member who picks random, Evert-related stats, and attempts to use them against Serena. Evert already acknowledged Serena was a greater player than she had been, which is an undeniable fact for endless reasons which are a matter of historical record.
Not to those who constantly attempt to paint her as a criminal, animal or any other slur associated with the worst and most dangerous of all human beliefs.
Agreed.
Yes, it was bigger, and covered by news sources from every corner of the world. She was the only tennis player who truly transcended the sport in this century, as her success and importance moved far beyond some unnamed player with endorsement deals--something far from unique with professional athletes over the decades. When Serena retired, it also marked the end of a legendary run that had included over three generations of significant players--a feat arguably unmathced in tennis history. That kind of brilliance and longevity will never be matched again.
Tennfan123
Legend
Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
This is just US based. Nothing special. Would have been the same for Pete/Andre etc. too if they're primes and final matches were the social media hoohahh hype era. Fortunately, life was more sane back then. We didn't used to hype slow plodding, out of shape, overweight players like Serena williams back then. We verbally attacked them and made them get in shape and called like we saw it without any political backlash from left wing Government controlled media and their contemporary "woke" nonsense
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Greats don’t lose to players like Vinci. Or Lose to Sloan Stephens, Stosur or Andreescu in the finals. I probably enjoyed her earlier years but not her antics and hype train of political correctness of espn tennis channel and Nike in her later years. To me Steffi and Martina are the greatest
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Log off bestie.
Who cares!?
Serena’s Swan Song – ESPN's Most-Watched Tennis Telecast on Record
Friday’s US Open Third Round match on ESPN – apparently the last in the remarkable career of Serena Williams, as she lost to Ajla Tomljanovich of Australia 7-5, 6-7, 6-1 – is the most-watched tennis telecast on record in ESPN’s 43-year history. An average of 4.6 million viewers (P2+) tuned in...espnpressroom.com
It really shows how beloved she is in America. This includes past Slam men's and women's finals. Serena Williams once again sets the standard. I miss her already.
Look Im a big Martina fan but do you know who she lost to in the quarter finals at the US Open in 1990 when she was 34? M Maleeva-Fragnière
In the 92 US OPEN she was seeded 3rd. She lost to a lady named Mag Meleeva in the 2nd round. People have short memories. And those are just a few of her losses to people you never heard of in her mid 30s.
She wasn't reaching finals at Serenas age to lose. In 1994 which was her last year on tour, she was 38. She made the Wimbledon final and lost to ConcHita Martinez.
At 37 she made no slam finals. At 36 she made no slam finals. At 35 she made one slam final and lost to Seles.
Again this is no criticism of Martina but its rather easy not to lose big finals against people when you are not making them.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Serena hate is quite funny lol. I was never a fan. But to deny how good she was is just hogwash.
LaVie en Rose
Hall of Fame
ha ha hatred for Serena here . I'm not biggest fan but come one ppl
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
That are surprisingly low numbers.
Maybe only TV without internet streaming (can that even be counted)?
I mean the USA has a population of about 340 million.
And then only 4.8 million viewers? Serena‘s last match???
That is not even 1.5 percent of all Americans!
I remember that in the late 80s Davis Cup matches with the German team regularly had 6 to 8 million viewers in Germany. The cake took again - who else? - good old Steffi.
Or better good young Steffi in her 87 YEC final against Sabatini. It was broadcast in prime time in Germany (8 p.m.) and had more than 10 million viewers! West Germany had a population of about 60 million then. So 16 % of Germans watched Steffi winning her first YEC title!
16 % in Germany with Graf vs. 1.5 % in the USA with Williams.
Um...
Isn't ESPN a pay per view TV service in the US while Raducanu's US Open final was on ITV which is free to air? That's a really embarrassing comparison.
Here in Australia, Barty's Aus Open final was on free to air and was watched by 4.5 million people while our highest pay per view content from what i've googled is around 700,000. That's for our population of 25 million.
Also would love actual stats of this Steffi Graf v Sabatini match pulling 10 million views and again, that would be free to air back in those days.
Next time if you're going to make the comparisons, don't use one that is free content and one that people have to pay a weekly/monthly subscription to, because surprise surprise, the free to air one will destroy the paid one.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
S
'TIME' moves on . .
She was certainly very fit/trim back in the day. And tennis kit that really flattered her.
'TIME' moves on . .
Steroids
Nobody said she was not good (contrary to what Serena fans do with other players). But others have been far better. I request again for one achievement of hers (other than age and time related) where she has a stand alone lead
There can never be an egg to egg comparison. However, you have to keep in mind that there isn't any other American consistent player in tennis, both men and women. The Federer/Joker final in 2015 had 3.32m views on ESPN with no American, which remained above any tennis viewership including Serena's finals. There was also no media hype before the match. So the number 4.6M 7 years later with an American for whom there was a front page dedicated in all the news paper for days before the match that she is playing her last match doesn't show much.
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