How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Sorry I meant saw. Who's to say that Serena saw what Patrick did.

I'm not questioning that he gave handsignals.
Well...anything's possible. But that's a bit of a stretch. Why would Patrick send signals if Serena wasn't looking? But, yeah, that would be my excuse if I were Serena. A good one if there isn't any video showing Serena looking at Patrick at the exact time of the signal.
 
We've seen zverev call an umpire a f**king kinon and we've seen Djokovic saying something about f**k your mother in Serbian yet because serena calls the umpire a thief she gets a game penalty?

I won't disagree on Serena not being calm enough in that situation though. She completely lost the plot and I got fed up with it as well.

But Ramos was too trigger happy on the violations especially in a GS final.
Here we go. My name is Man of steel and I shall defend Serena even if she murders a man.

She received TWO code violations before that game penalty. Did you even watch the match?

1) coaching (her coach admitted to it on live TV later on)
2) broke her racquet
3) insulted him on every single changeover, called him a thief, told him he will never umpire another match again, brought out sexism out of freaking nowhere etc.

Why do you think everyone is against her?
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
We've seen zverev call an umpire a f**king moron and we've seen Djokovic saying something about f**k your mother in Serbian yet because serena calls the umpire a thief she gets a game penalty?

I won't disagree on Serena not being calm enough in that situation though. She completely lost the plot and I got fed up with it as well.

But Ramos was too trigger happy on the violations especially in a GS final.
She gets game penalty because it was the third violation.
 
Totally disgusted by the butt kissing Serena ESPN crew and some in the stands by taking her side in that ugly meltdown. I personally believe Serena did that on purpose to try and rattle Osaka when she realized she could not win. She totally stole a precious moment from Osaka. I wish Serena would go away.
There's no question that she'll do anything to win a match, but I just think she's so used to getting her own way and being catered to that she really can't believe it when someone doesn't bow down. She's a bully, always has been - I'm pretty sure she even threatened the umpire after the match when she didn't shake his hand and was wagging that finger at him. What she's really good at though is intimidation and trumping up an infraction just to get her fired up and get her lynch mob fans more fired up. She was on the warpath at the end, she was channeling all that unrighteous indignation at Osaka, but good for Naomi, not getting caught up in it and firing that last service winner.
 
Booing at the ceremony? Wtf ... this crowd is beyond belief.
Totally agree. This country and the world has been conditioned by the media to take the side of anyone crying about being victimized despite the so called victim's abhorrent behavior. We live in sad times. Just awful and the kind of thing that has soured me on sports the last several years.
 
Just out of interest, I have never known anyone refer to themselves as a "social-justice warrior." It seems entirely a pejorative term deployed by the right, and especially the far right, to criticize liberal and left positions without bothering to engage with them. I don't even think that either moderate or thoughtful conservatives use the term. It's basically an ad hominem, and so a logical fallacy that should be avoided by anyone engaged in serious discourse or who wants to persuade someone with whom they disagree.

There is a character in the TV show "One Day at a Time" who refers to herself as a social-justice warrior, so perhaps some young people do self-describe in that way. But I'm a professor and I have never heard a student self-describe as a social-justice warrior.
“College professor”
SJWs basically means you love the smell of your own farts.
 
Well...anything's possible. But that's a bit of a stretch. Why would Patrick send signals if Serena wasn't looking? But, yeah, that would be my excuse if I were Serena. A good one if there isn't any video showing Serena looking at Patrick at the exact time of the signal.
She could have even been looking at Osaka and Patrick still would have been doing it yet Serena would be able not to see it. My problem isn't with the coaching violation as I understand that. But it's with the game penalty which effectively killed the match and any tense moment that we might have had.

Ramos was way too sensitive.
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
Osaka is not a part of any minority. You are using American categories where they don't belong. And pretending to be a feminist at the same time, of course.

It was good to see a strong minority woman overcome all the odds and disgusting unsportsmanlike behavior from her adversary to pull out a huge upset

Go Osaka!
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
As has become the case with most controversies, we have made it a choice between two extremes. Some say Serena did absolutely nothing wrong and is a hero for standing up to the chair umpire and calling him a thief.

The other side says takes joy in pointing out that the umpire acted within the rules and say that Serena deserved the consequences. There was absolutely nothing dubious about the chair's decision.

Clearly, the truth is in the middle of these extremes. Each warning against Serena was technically legitimate, and she should not have called the umpire a thief. On the other hand, it would have been best if the umpire had used a little discretion and not issued a game penalty. Thief is not such a vulgar term that he couldn't have chosen to withhold the penalty.

Serena was not blameless or heroic for yelling at the umpire, but that doesn't mean he made the best possible decision, either.
I agree that thief is not horrible in and of itself, but in the context of the situation, it was deplorable behavior to personally denigrate the ref like that.

You don’t play with fire when you’ve already been booked for two violations. Everyone knows that. The tolerance for poor behavior gets smaller with every violation. She didn’t need to react that strongly to the coaching warning. She didn’t need to smash her racquet. And she certainly didn’t need to berate him like that. If you get T’d up in basketball, you do not continue to insult the ref, or they’ll T you up again

It’s all on her, and she’ll never own up to that. She’s never taken responsibility for her actions, and she never will. It’s all external, never internal. Which is why I’ll never respect her

End rant
 
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She could have even been looking at Osaka and Patrick still would have been doing it yet Serena would be able not to see it. My problem isn't with the coaching violation as I understand that. But it's with the game penalty which effectively killed the match and any tense moment that we might have had.

Ramos was way too sensitive.
Bullspit. Serena was getting her arse kicked and knew it. The meltdown was totally orchestrated trying to rattle Osaka. Serena is a narcissistic disgrace to the sport.
 
No. Especially after she threatened Ramos stating that she would make sure he would not ever ref a match of her again and that he would regret it. I see veryone talking about the thief part but hasn't anyone see/heard this part?
LOL,,,,,,,,, RAFA did the Same thing multiple times with another umpire..... What about him then ? Rafa didnt' get a warning or point penalty for doing that.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
 
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Dont forget also her telling him that she would make sure he would never ever ref again on her matches... clearly indicating possible fixing of umpires and/or threatening him to have an influence on the outcomes of his possible umpire matches
That's not the main issue, it's not that uncommon for players to insult umpires but that she didn't want to let the issue go for so long and keep demanding he apologizes to her. She was basically daring him to penalize her.
Both good points. I do think though calling someone a liar and a thief is way different to just saying they're bad at their job or (you're blind! etc)

And yes she went on far too long and threatening to have him not referee her matches, all bad form and asking for a penalty. There was definitely an air of "I'm not taking this **** from you Serena"
 
i missed this whole mess... but i have a little technical question:
when a penalty game is given 'between 2 games', the player who just served... serves again in the next game?
(assuming that the match isn't over or that it isn't TB time, of course) ;)
 
Bullspit. Serena was getting her arse kicked and knew it. The meltdown was totally orchestrated trying to rattle Osaka. Serena is a narcissistic disgrace to the sport.
First set she got her arse kicked. Second set was tight until the controversy kicked off.
Maybe you weren't paying attention to the ebb and flow of the match.
Without the incidents it was 3-4. With Osaka to serve. Who's to say Serena couldn't have broken back.
 
To be honest, I don't care who they were booing at. Osaka's going to think it was because they wanted Williams to win. She even said as much in her winning speech.

They ruined her first grand slam victory. They booed during her ceremony. There should have been more claps.
Oh trust me, she'll be alright with that three and a half mil. But more importantly, she stood up to all that drama which could have seriously derailed her. Kudos to Serena for at least telling the crowd to quit booing, but only after she could see Osaka crying. I just hope she loses some endorsements over this travesty. The penalties were valid and her response to them should be viewed as totally inappropriate.
 
Serena: "I'm here fighting for women's rights and for women's equality and for all kinds of stuff. For me to say 'thief' and for him to take a game, it made me feel like it was a sexist remark. He's never taken a game from a man because they said 'thief'."

Ugh just be quiet Serena
Serena said something similar during her famous foot fault incident. "I've heard a lot worse", which is used in trying to excuse or minimize her own behavior. Kids and teenagers use it a lot.
 
Carlos was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Carlos was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
Ann is right.

Umpire could have expressed some restraint for game penalty but you have missed other things Serena said 'You will not umpire anymore matches of mine . You stole a point . You accused me of cheating . You are a liar. Say sorry' in a threatening voice is NOT at all a good look for the sport
 
Serena is right about the double standard. The coaching happens all the time. How come uncle Toni and Rafa almost never got a warning while Serena got one in a slam final? Considering the lady’s also get legitimate coaching between sets, so what is the big deal his coach yelled out something, Carlos Ramos?

Also I don’t think the guys always get a warning when they smash a racquet. The only deserving violation was the verbal abuse she lashed out to the ump. I knew she was in big trouble as soon as she demanded an apology.
 
^Especially the entitled ones with affluenza.^

Look....
She is a goddess and a star.
He is a macho little fella who got offended.
Trainwreck.
Katrina Adams looked like she was on her way to a ball. She was not ready for that ceremony. ruff sitchyashen.
 
Carlos was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Carlos was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
yeah, everybody's wrong !!!
... and i'm wrong too ! :)

but naomi played alright ;)
 
Ann is right.

Umpire could have expressed some restraint for game penalty but you have missed other things Serena said 'You will not umpire anymore matches of mine . You stole a point . You accused me of cheating . You are a liar. Say sorry' in a threatening voice is NOT at all a good look for the sport
I think she said way enough to get that warning.


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Lets assume Nadal takes on court coaching and umpire warned him.Did you seriously believe Nadal got crazy because off that ?? I always say Serena needs threapy.She doesnt even know how to make proper argument.
If it got to a game penalty then hell yes I do. He never gets punished though and requests for chair umpires not to do his matches instead.
 
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