How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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mistik

Hall of Fame
Serena got her a** kicked in Wimbledon final yet you saw a gracious behaviour there.

She got her a** kicked numerous times and accepted it. This has nothing to do with the fact that she was losing. It's the fact that she felt the Umpire made BS call.
She always does this in US Open to provacate crowd,which she was succesful about with all that ugly booing.Wimbledon or RG crowd couldnt care less about her antics one bit it would even back fired and they would boo her.
 
That’s the US mentality, no? It’s either black or white. Good or bad. Progressive or conservative. Democrat or republican. Nothing in between, no nuance whatsoever. And you’re the greatest country so the rest should just follow suit.

Too bad you need to have a certain level of intelligence to be able to reflect on your own thoughts and behavior to notice these things.

The greatest country is really great at shouting their own unnuanced opinions, booing the other team, creating global tensions in areas of race, gender and sexuality that are only making matters worse, complaining about their presidential stable genius that they elected themselves, and most of all: you’re great at calling yourselves the greatest country in the world. Always with a straight face and without a hint of shame:)
 
I have to repeat this again. I thought it was awesome in the press conference when she said how she told the empire she was not a cheater and he basically acknowledge that and then she sort of stop talking. I wanted the person who asked the question to say what can you continue to tell us what happened after that Serena? Because she was right he never called her a cheater and he agreed that she was not cheating. She could not let it go because she could not stand being told what to do by someone else while she was getting beat. But again, this is my third thread posting this, she is who she is. She is a great player and a spoiled entitled brat all in the same time. I have to repeat this again. I thought it was awesome in the press conference when she said how she told the empire she was not a cheater and he basically acknowledge that and then she sort of stop talking. I wanted the person who asked the question to say walk can you continue to tell us what happened after that Serena? Because she was right he never called her a cheater and he agreed that she was not cheating. She could not let it go because she could not stand being told what to do about someone else while she was getting beat. But again, this is my third thread posting this, she is who she is. She has a great player and a spoiled entitled brat all in the same time. She has a chip on her shoulder and she never plays it until she’s getting outplayed. Osaka wore her out. She could not let it go. Now the reason she could not let it go could be debated and I have my own thoughts about that but the bottom line is she could not let it go. The empire did exactly what he should’ve done. I suppose he could’ve warned her and told her that a third violation would cost her a game but it is her job to know that. She is a professional tennis player
 
Well if you're attempting to win your first Slam 6-2 4-3 and 6-2 5-3 is a huge difference. That would've been a crucial hold for Osaka.
Do you happen to know how the authorities decided back in the day that a game penalty would mean an extra game won by the other player rather than docking a game from the person being penalized? (If the latter, then the score would have become 6-2 4-2 rather than 6-2 5-3).
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
I'm begining to think Serena using the word "thief" is unfortunate, because it takes away how abusing her entire tirade against Ramos truly was:


"You will never ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar."

And this is not the full extent of it if I remember correctly, it started before the changeover. It's not like Serena merely said "thief" to Ramos and he issued the warning there and then.
It’s the culmination of everything. He probably was like “you know what, she’s been screaming at me and insulting me for three minutes, I’m issuing a code violation.”
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
I'm begining to think Serena using the word "thief" is unfortunate, because it takes away how abusing her entire tirade against Ramos truly was:


"You will never ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar."

And this is not the full extent of it if I remember correctly, it started before the changeover. It's not like Serena merely said "thief" to Ramos and he issued the warning there and then.
Obviously not great behavior, but this is nothing unusual. Players argue with the umpires all the time and do not receive warning or penalties for it.
 

upchuck

Professional
Everything went wrong when Carlos became the first umpire to give her a warning for coaching; in a slam final no less. That's one thing the sisters don't tolerate, questions about their integrity.

I hear people saying it was a call against her coach but that's asinine. It's not like her coach received a penalty that would result in him getting ejected. The call was made against her and therefore she had every right to feel as if her integrity was under attack.
 
That’s the US mentality, no? It’s either black or white. Good or bad. Progressive or conservative. Democrat or republican. Nothing in between, no nuance whatsoever. And you’re the greatest country so the rest should just follow suit.

Too bad you need to have a certain level of intelligence to be able to reflect on your own thoughts and behavior to notice these things.

The greatest country is really great at shouting their own unnuanced opinions, booing the other team, creating global tensions in areas of race, gender and sexuality that are only making matters worse, complaining about their presidential stable genius that they elected themselves, and most of all: you’re great at calling yourselves the greatest country in the world. Always with a straight face and without a hint of shame:)
Serena said much more than liar and thief and has a very disturbing levels of ego and arrogance

She could have called the umpire a joke or something but asking him to announce that she didn’t cheat , asking him to say sorry and apologize - these really deserved the punishment

I would have liked her serve game to be penalized , she was lucky it turned out to be Naomi’s
 
Agreed. Serena clearly overreacted to the coaching call, shouldn't have broken her racquet, and was a bit rude to the umpire. He also overreacted to her rudeness and could have shown discretion. Those saying that he just followed the rules should recognize a distinction between the official rules and the de facto rules. Yes, he followed the official rules. But the de facto rules are that umpires can exercise discretion. (Do those thinking the umpire did well because he followed the rules also think that everyone who has ever gone one mile an hour over the speed limit should get a ticket?)

As has become the case with most controversies, we have made it a choice between two extremes. Some say Serena did absolutely nothing wrong and is a hero for standing up to the chair umpire and calling him a thief.

The other side says takes joy in pointing out that the umpire acted within the rules and say that Serena deserved the consequences. There was absolutely nothing dubious about the chair's decision.

Clearly, the truth is in the middle of these extremes. Each warning against Serena was technically legitimate, and she should not have called the umpire a thief. On the other hand, it would have been best if the umpire had used a little discretion and not issued a game penalty. Thief is not such a vulgar term that he couldn't have chosen to withhold the penalty.

Serena was not blameless or heroic for yelling at the umpire, but that doesn't mean he made the best possible decision, either.
 
Oh, the memories are so short.

I seem to remember Andy Roddick berating lines people over calls. And I mean yelling at a lines person about whether they know what they're doing or should be there et cetera. Basically being a huge bully. That was one reason I never liked the guy.

Code violation? Nope. Roddick got away with a huge amount. So you have a man who is a crowd favorite and a woman who was a crowd favorite, and one gets a code violation and one doesn't.

it seems quite obvious and blatant to me. John Mcenroe to this day makes a career out of how horrible and insulting he was to officials. That was a long time ago, but it is not like anyone has decided to banish him from the sport. Instead it is his brand and he is celebrated for it.
 
I'm begining to think Serena using the word "thief" is unfortunate, because it takes away how abusing her entire tirade against Ramos truly was:


"You will never ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar."

And this is not the full extent of it if I remember correctly, it started before the changeover. It's not like Serena merely said "thief" to Ramos and he issued the warning there and then.
Nadal doing the exact same thing with 2 prior violations berates Bernardes and says that he will never coach one of his matches again.

Doesn't receive a game penalty or even a penalty taken away from him
 
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
New Yorkers have no CLASS !!!
 
Obviously not great behavior, but this is nothing unusual. Players argue with the umpires all the time and do not receive warning or penalties for it.
High profile players escape . Lower profile guys like Kyrgios, Troicki, Fognini all get fined and defaulted

What we really need to see is whether the umpire is at fault or Serena is

And we know clearly who was at fault here
 
Everything went wrong when Carlos became the first umpire to give her a warning for coaching; in a slam final no less. That's one thing the sisters don't tolerate, questions about their integrity.

I hear people saying it was a call against her coach but that's asinine. It's not like her coach received a penalty that would result in him getting ejected. The call was made against her and therefore she had every right to feel as if her integrity was under attack.
Yup if the ump doesn't act like an idiot and give a warning for a hand gesture none of this other stuff would even be relevant.
 
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
I would not watch the uso if you paid me
I will be watching the Aussie like I always do
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
I read the post and the title. I agree with most of the post, but not with the title, which said that "everyone" was wrong. Hence my question: how is Osaka not part of the collective "everyone"?
Because she wasn't involved in any of the fracas. Just let it go, she wasn't named for a reason in a thread titled "everyone was wrong".
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
High profile players escape . Lower profile guys like Kyrgios, Troicki, Fognini all get fined and defaulted

What we really need to see is whether the umpire is at fault or Serena is

And we know clearly who was at fault here
So you're saying there's nothing at all questionable about a game penalty at a crucial point in a grand slam final?
 
Je suis Americain. And having been to RG, Bercy, MSG, et Flusheeng... I will honestly say...
The French crowd is equally difficult, but much smarter. They can handle their controversy and their cabernet better than wealthy tennis fanz in America.
Smarter? Better?

Clearly you’ve forgotten the Grosjean - Nadal match where Nadal had the chair come down 2 straight points to check marks and correct calls (Nadal was right both times) Crowd made so much noise they couldn’t play for 7 minutes.

New Yorkers are bad but rubes compared to the French.
 
Booing or jeering is utterly classless. Doesn't matter if your favourite is losing - the opponent is a human being who is working hard and trying their best to achieve their own goals, and deserves respect for their game.
I attend a lot of tennis matches and I have never once booed in my life. When Federer was getting owned by Nadal at the Australian Open in 2014 I was still applauding Rafa, especially on his great shots. I nearly always applaud both players.

What is difficult about this? They're playing to achieve their own goals but also for you - the spectators and fans who have just paid likely hundreds of dollars to watch two professionals entertain them?
Why do you want to insult them and make them feel bad for showing up, or having the temerity to win?

It's disgusting.
What do you expect from NY ???
Junky tourney compared to the far greater Aussie one in Jan
 
Yeah, Serena cant control her anger. Even if there was some bad calls against her, she is just making it worst and worst with her behaviour.

Felt bad for Osaka when crowd start booing her at trophy ceremony, like its her fault. When she started to cry it broke my heart.
 
Because she wasn't involved in any of the fracas. Just let it go, she wasn't named for a reason in a thread titled "everyone was wrong".
She was involved in the match. The reason this is an issue is mostly because it took away from her success. Not including her in the everyone is symptomatic of the general problem.
 
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
Well, technically, the umpire wasn't wrong, as showing leniency and acting in favor of a player as to not apply the correct penalty is not actually fair towards the other player, the one who respects the rules and doesn't try to force them in their favor all the time.

The umpire has to act according to the rules and if he did, then he was not actually wrong. That's like saying a policeman who gives a speeding ticket to somebody was wrong because he could've just warned that person.

Serena and her manager probably think they are the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to women tennis. 95% of the time they get away with bending the rules because the officials show too much leniency and don't apply all the rules properly. On occasions though, players like Serena get caught and they make a big drama out of it. The goal is that if it will happen again, officials will prefer to avoid the scandal and be softer, more 'understanding'.
 
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This is what happens when the political correctness rules.
In saner times, Serena would have been put in her place a long time ago by officials and the media, but no, everyone is afraid of being called racist/sexist.
I heard Serena rant about having a daughter and she’s fighting for equality and women. ESPN will make her out as the victim. It’s a shame Osakas’s brilliant tennis will take a back seat. I hope Osaka realizes it was she that was the better player and deserved the win. Sadly she seemed subdued after she won, made to feel guilty by Serena’s bizarre behavior. I love Osaka’s honesty and innocence. She gave it right back at Serena and outplayed her with placement and power when needed. Great win for her.
 

kanamit

Hall of Fame
It's a very crappy tournament, not due to the fans per se (the Roland Garros fans are worse, IMO, and the absolute worst are the ones in Miami), but due to how fscking slow they've made the court. It plays slower than clay at this point. Strange and unpleasant to watch in the midst of what is supposed to be the fast summer hardcourt season.
 
“But I cannot begin to count the number of times men have sat in their chairs on changeovers and had heated discussions with umpires, and nothing whatever happens.”

And how many of theses heated discussions involving men happened after they received a point penalty?
What?

the issue is whether what she said in her chair on a changeover should have resulted in a code violation. I say no, and it would not have happened had it been Federer.

In other words, had Federer received coaching, then smashed a racket, and then said what Serena said, is there anybody here who seriously believes he would have received that third code violation at the end of a set in the championship match?

It is not a Level Playing Field and as someone said earlier, perhaps the solution is to tighten up on all players. But as things stand, there is a clear disparity in how female players are treated.
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Obviously not great behavior, but this is nothing unusual. Players argue with the umpires all the time and do not receive warning or penalties for it.
She was on him after multiple changeovers too, before this. Like, a lot. At some point enough's enough, and calling him a thief (and by extension, calling his credibility and ethics as an umpire into question) was probably that for Ramos, and Serena should have known that seeing as she had two violations already. Three strikes is not a difficult concept.
 
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