justasport
Professional
What in the HELL are you talking about!!!!!!! Serena is the one that owes everybody and apology for playing the FOOL!!!!!!Agreed. Ramos needs to apologize to Serena and Naomi for making the match about him.
What in the HELL are you talking about!!!!!!! Serena is the one that owes everybody and apology for playing the FOOL!!!!!!Agreed. Ramos needs to apologize to Serena and Naomi for making the match about him.
Dooohhooohhoood. Doood. Who the heck do you think you are?!Yep, people are misguidedly calling out Serena as a victim instead of Ramos as a hero. If there's an issue with discrepancy, it's that other umpires aren't enforcing the rules and the blowback from this is just going to make it worse. Too many of the umpires don't want the criticism and just let the match proceed as rules are constantly violated. Some won't overrule because Hawkeye might make them look bad.
You can't blame the umpires in some respects. Social media and TV commentators get riled up whenever they try to "insert themselves" in a match by actually enforcing rules. Brad Gilbert, Chris Evert and Co. think penalties should only be given at inconsequential times and that when matches are close, umpires shouldn't be involved at all. This is the wrong mindset. If the penalties are meaningless, then the players won't follow the rules. They will take the advantages they can get away with. Human nature. Make the penalties mean something and they will obey the rules.
People want to make this a sexism issue, but didn't Serena have issues with two female umpires at the U.S. Open (though she thought it was the same one)? But then they were being racist instead, right? There's a large subset of Serena fans who don't really pay attention to tennis but hold her up as a shining example of a powerful black woman. They attack anyone on social media who disagrees or has the audacity to call a man the greatest of all time (they attack Fed in particular, making sure people call him the male GOAT because of course Serena is the greatest of all time and if you disagree you're a racist sexist). They harass tennis bloggers when they dare question her behavior. The problem is they don't know anything about tennis because they don't watch tennis. They throw out absurd facts like McEnroe was able to get away with bad behavior his whole career with nary a point penalty (conveniently forgetting he was defaulted from a tournament). They also buy into false news that Serena is drug-tested way more than anyone else. Everyone is out to get her! I appreciate/respect the opinion of the people on this board who are actual tennis fans and want to make a case for Serena, even if I disagree. But the non-tennis-fans who want to get involved are just nuts. I'm guessing many didn't actually watch the match, just followed tweets about it.
These non-tennis-fans help perpetuate the Serena as Victim mythology, a mindset that she has embraced and uses to turn around matches — she uses the crowd and fights with umpires to amp herself up when she's being thoroughly outplayed as a way to help get her back in matches. "Everyone is against me, but I'm a fighter." Novak has used this effectively, too, though his beef is usually with the crowds and not the umpire (and he's right — the crowds are totally against him!). But Serena is just a narcissist and makes everything about her — she's the best and deserves to win, no matter what the opponent is doing and the umpires are working against her, not working to enforce the fairness of the match for both players.
All of her antics can throw opponents off their game if they don't stay tough (credit to Naomi, like Sam and Kim before her, for not falling into the trap). It's the same with Nadal, another narcissist with a victim mentality and disregard for opponents. In his case, he uses time violations, MTOs and the like to slow momentum and craft the tempo of the matches to his needs. When he's losing, it's his failing body — not his mind (his body fails much more than Novak and Roger, no?!) Both Nadal and Serena make it about them, and so do the commentators. They are obsessed with these players' fighter mentality and humility — because after all of their off-court antics they may deign to give their opponent some credit — "stop booing Naomi, this is her moment," "let's not talk about my knees, let's talk about my opponent, I never like to talk about my knee." They disregard the rules, then when they lose it's POOR ME!
If these non-tennis-fans looked harder they would find a much better role model in Venus, a strong black woman who doesn't need to intimidate umpires, linespeople and opponents. Despite not having Serena's technical skills and having a strength-sapping disease, she continues to play on in a long twilight nearing 40 years of age, her major titles far behind her. But she does it with class and dignity, unlike her sister.
Fittingly, Venus is the goddess.
would have been much better if naomi won the second set in similar fashion as the first..without serena acting like a freak and bringing this down on herself. a few time violations were warranted as well. the "thief" comment is not the issue..it was the incessant words for three games. she was going to lose this match.. she lost way more in the end by adding to her image as a hot-head.
It was like 15 seconds before the end of the match, man.Back in the day, I called out @tennis_pro on creating a match thread before a winner had even been determined in the previous match (a regular practice of his, it turns out). His response was to call me a "social justice warrior."![]()
I'm sure.It was like 15 seconds before the end of the match, man.
I don't know my memory's kinda hazy today. I've got all my focus on Serena.I'm sure.
How early was the Fed-Kyrgios, USO thread? Let's call it half an hour, Benoit?
They were making excuses for her. Typical ass-backwards ESPN coverage. Disgusting IMO.Why are people surprised? She's always been rude to other players, racist even, and lacking class. This is a person who threatened an innocent lineswomen who makes 1/100000th of what she does with death, and she got a joke of a punishment.
I'm glad USTA had the balls to enforce the rules.
What was the commentary like, I'm sure Pam, Chris etc who are rabid Serena fans and always defend her and insult other players, were throwing fits?
I'm not going to argue about this stuff. She got what she deserved. Cheers mateIf you can give me an example of a higher level of abuse, I'm with you 100%.
Things like a threat, swearing at him, thing to me that is a real verbal abuse
Nadal doing the exact same thing with 2 prior violations berates Bernardes and says that he will never coach one of his matches again.
Doesn't receive a game penalty or even a penalty taken away from him
She called him a liar and a thief. That's way over the line, and I've never heard any heated exchange reach that point where you're saying the the umpire is dishonest, basically insulting them.
And hang on if it's sexism, you need to show other examples of where Ramos has been stricter with female players vs male ones. You can't just cite this example and say it's because she's a woman.
And what another umpire did in a men's match has no relation to this umpire in a woman's match.
Pretty much saying don't blame us, blame the chair umpire. Cowards. Should have said the umpire was following the rules and left it at that.
Said her first word today!Can someone fill me in on the daughter jokes? Why is everyone mentioning serena' daughter?
Nonsense. NY is in America. It's been heah for yeeeaz. So is Louisiana, even though people think it ain't. Same with SF. Berkeley. Texas. The flyova states. All America. Big, diverse, scary country. United States. Not divided. Not polarized. Not separatist.
You know what is not American? To call a major part of America unAmerican. Why? Because they disagree with your politics? They have a strange accent? Too many damn forriners? They took yer jaabz?
NY is the hometown of the American dream to a LOT of people over the past few generations.
Dissent is patriotic.
NY is America.
Yeah, some social justice warriors need to gain perspective.
But some of you might need to remember some history.
Ramos was a tad too thin-skinned unless he heard something we didn't.
She has a DAUGHTER
Yes. But i believe the correct spelling has some sort of number sign or pound sign as a prefix.#MeToo!
Because the US media is so full of praise and hyperbole of Serena and they keep harping on that one fact.Can someone fill me in on the daughter jokes? Why is everyone mentioning serena' daughter?
My take on things - coaching happens all the time. Umpires are well aware of where the player boxes are and you'll notice them looking between points and on changeovers, especially when the player is on the side near their coach. Unless there is something blatant, like a coach standing up and yelling "serve to her forehand" or something like that, the umpire will usually warn the player on a changeover and say that they're seeing or hearing things that may be interpreted as coaching and that it needs to stop. As a line umpire, on more than one occasion I've had a chair call me over and ask me if I could hear what was being said more clearly than they could. For a code violation to be given for coaching, in my experience, there must be ongoing signalling despite a warning or something blatant. I'm not sure if there were any conversations between Carlos and Serena earlier in the match.
But let's assume that the code for coaching was hasty and erroneous. Let's assume that she legitimately had no idea what her coach was doing or that all he did was give her a thumbs up. It's a warning. It means nothing. They had a nice conversation about it afterwards in which she explained her position and Carlos seemed to understand and sympathize and smile and nod. But he still gave the warning. You can't take it back. She's been playing long enough to know that. The warning was there. At that point, it was all out of Carlos' hands. The racket abuse was clear. There's no judgement on that. After the racket abuse, she let him have it. Twice. Once at the point penalty and again on the changeover. He took it, as he should have. And he took a lot. Then she crossed the line. Calling an umpire a thief is accusing them of being partial and attacking their integrity. That's a very clear line that you do not cross. I've taken a lot of crap from players of the years because I know that emotions are high and I know that they're the ones out there competing. What I have never taken and will never take is being accused of cheating, partiality or having my integrity questioned.
While the code violation for coaching might not have been the correct call, it was a warning, no different than a time violation warning. Serena should have put it aside and just played tennis. Her actions and her actions alone resulted in the rest of the fireworks that we saw today.
U underestimate the code violation for coaching. Its a fuse, in a highly pressurized environment. He lite the match. The gas was seeping from there. I get your points. If the code violation for coaching does not happen, then much of this could have been avoided. I have a job, where I deal with people, its a dangerous job, sometimes I have to be smart even if I am in the right. I have to to know when to start something and when to let it go.My take on things - coaching happens all the time. Umpires are well aware of where the player boxes are and you'll notice them looking between points and on changeovers, especially when the player is on the side near their coach. Unless there is something blatant, like a coach standing up and yelling "serve to her forehand" or something like that, the umpire will usually warn the player on a changeover and say that they're seeing or hearing things that may be interpreted as coaching and that it needs to stop. As a line umpire, on more than one occasion I've had a chair call me over and ask me if I could hear what was being said more clearly than they could. For a code violation to be given for coaching, in my experience, there must be ongoing signalling despite a warning or something blatant. I'm not sure if there were any conversations between Carlos and Serena earlier in the match.
But let's assume that the code for coaching was hasty and erroneous. Let's assume that she legitimately had no idea what her coach was doing or that all he did was give her a thumbs up. It's a warning. It means nothing. They had a nice conversation about it afterwards in which she explained her position and Carlos seemed to understand and sympathize and smile and nod. But he still gave the warning. You can't take it back. She's been playing long enough to know that. The warning was there. At that point, it was all out of Carlos' hands. The racket abuse was clear. There's no judgement on that. After the racket abuse, she let him have it. Twice. Once at the point penalty and again on the changeover. He took it, as he should have. And he took a lot. Then she crossed the line. Calling an umpire a thief is accusing them of being partial and attacking their integrity. That's a very clear line that you do not cross. I've taken a lot of crap from players of the years because I know that emotions are high and I know that they're the ones out there competing. What I have never taken and will never take is being accused of cheating, partiality or having my integrity questioned.
While the code violation for coaching might not have been the correct call, it was a warning, no different than a time violation warning. Serena should have put it aside and just played tennis. Her actions and her actions alone resulted in the rest of the fireworks that we saw today.
Yeah, wasn't it obvious that I saw it? I described it the same as you. I said it looked like a "come on" or "come forward" gesture. But it's such a general, standard gesture..Did you watch Patrick ? With both hands he was asking her to move forward
I have to to know when to start something and when to let it go.
IMHO and specific to RAMOS..he lets the men get away with stuff because he's afraid of getting his *** kicked, he was very very lucky that Serena didn't drag him out of the chair and "speed bag" himBut I cannot begin to count the number of times men have sat in their chairs on changeovers and had heated discussions with umpires, and nothing whatever happens.
Yep, people are misguidedly calling out Serena as a victim instead of Ramos as a hero. If there's an issue with discrepancy, it's that other umpires aren't enforcing the rules and the blowback from this is just going to make it worse. Too many of the umpires don't want the criticism and just let the match proceed as rules are constantly violated. Some won't overrule because Hawkeye might make them look bad.
You can't blame the umpires in some respects. Social media and TV commentators get riled up whenever they try to "insert themselves" in a match by actually enforcing rules. Brad Gilbert, Chris Evert and Co. think penalties should only be given at inconsequential times and that when matches are close, umpires shouldn't be involved at all. This is the wrong mindset. If the penalties are meaningless, then the players won't follow the rules. They will take the advantages they can get away with. Human nature. Make the penalties mean something and they will obey the rules.
People want to make this a sexism issue, but didn't Serena have issues with two female umpires at the U.S. Open (though she thought it was the same one)? But then they were being racist instead, right? There's a large subset of Serena fans who don't really pay attention to tennis but hold her up as a shining example of a powerful black woman. They attack anyone on social media who disagrees or has the audacity to call a man the greatest of all time (they attack Fed in particular, making sure people call him the male GOAT because of course Serena is the greatest of all time and if you disagree you're a racist sexist). They harass tennis bloggers when they dare question her behavior. The problem is they don't know anything about tennis because they don't watch tennis. They throw out absurd facts like McEnroe was able to get away with bad behavior his whole career with nary a point penalty (conveniently forgetting he was defaulted from a tournament). They also buy into false news that Serena is drug-tested way more than anyone else. Everyone is out to get her! I appreciate/respect the opinion of the people on this board who are actual tennis fans and want to make a case for Serena, even if I disagree. But the non-tennis-fans who want to get involved are just nuts. I'm guessing many didn't actually watch the match, just followed tweets about it.
These non-tennis-fans help perpetuate the Serena as Victim mythology, a mindset that she has embraced and uses to turn around matches — she uses the crowd and fights with umpires to amp herself up when she's being thoroughly outplayed as a way to help get her back in matches. "Everyone is against me, but I'm a fighter." Novak has used this effectively, too, though his beef is usually with the crowds and not the umpire (and he's right — the crowds are totally against him!). But Serena is just a narcissist and makes everything about her — she's the best and deserves to win, no matter what the opponent is doing and the umpires are working against her, not working to enforce the fairness of the match for both players.
All of her antics can throw opponents off their game if they don't stay tough (credit to Naomi, like Sam and Kim before her, for not falling into the trap). It's the same with Nadal, another narcissist with a victim mentality and disregard for opponents. In his case, he uses time violations, MTOs and the like to slow momentum and craft the tempo of the matches to his needs. When he's losing, it's his failing body — not his mind (his body fails much more than Novak and Roger, no?!) Both Nadal and Serena make it about them, and so do the commentators. They are obsessed with these players' fighter mentality and humility — because after all of their off-court antics they may deign to give their opponent some credit — "stop booing Naomi, this is her moment," "let's not talk about my knees, let's talk about my opponent, I never like to talk about my knee." They disregard the rules, then when they lose it's POOR ME!
If these non-tennis-fans looked harder they would find a much better role model in Venus, a strong black woman who doesn't need to intimidate umpires, linespeople and opponents. Despite not having Serena's technical skills and having a strength-sapping disease, she continues to play on in a long twilight nearing 40 years of age, her major titles far behind her. But she does it with class and dignity, unlike her sister.
Fittingly, Venus is the goddess.
Your definitions seem to be circular and of course incorrect.
Cultural Marxism was actually invented in the 1920s so you need to begin there.
Ouch!Turns out Ramos has done similar to Venus...
Check out @ShepherdIdris’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/ShepherdIdris/status/1038569968416243714?s=09
They will keep playing it for as long as it works.How many times is someone going to play the race or gender card to get out of taking responsibility for their actions?
I weep for today’s culture.
She is in the wrong to. But you don't throw a code violation into a slam final, in front to 30,000 people for a hand gesture. PERIOD. You are asking for a problem, no matter what the player says good or bad. Many people always look at the end of an incident. They don't really look back at the beginning.Perhaps Serena should have heeded this advice
Gained a lot of respect for Naomi Osaka today. She stood in the face of that like a trooper and came out victorious.
The crowd can suck it.![]()
They will keep playing it for as long as it works.
But he didn't even get a code violation from it.He didn't already have two code violations. Context is important
I was satirizing the other poster. I agree with you. Read above for my other posts. Clearly very few of the American liberals dubbed “SJW” are marxists of any sort, Frankfurt school or otherwise.
Serena was kind of right.. Just Youtube male tennis players going off on umpires. She called him a thief. They've been called worse.
But he didn't even get a code violation from it.
IMO, it’s all in the manner of how you speak to the umpire. Serena could/should have used a question to complain to the umpire, like don’t you think you should apologize to me? She didn’t it was an imperative statement, “you need to apologize to me, apologize to me” most people don’t respond to those type of demands in a heated discussions. She should have realized a good umpire won’t be intimidated. Perhaps the umpire should have ignored the coaching call but Serena was immediately in your face confrontational, she should have ignored that and moved on. The racquet abuse was self inflicted as was her tirade towards the umpire that cost her a game. She went on a rant about women’s rights, equality, being a mother, having a daighter which is mostly irrelevant if she’s just playing another women in a tennis match, so I don’t get that part. Another contributing factor is that Osaka was giving her a sound thrashing and Serena blew her cork as she has done before.Ramos did not accuse Serena of cheating, as she repeatedly accused him of doing; he gave the warning based on the gestures Patrick M made toward her (and Patrick admitted that he coached/cheated in his post match interview). So Serena's on going rant was based more on her ego and apparent sense of being entitled (she does call herself "Queen" after all) to smash her racket and berate Ramos quite viciously ("Apologize to me right now!").
Serena got a code violation for Patrick's coaching. So what. Players get code violations regularly for all manner seemingly minor incidents (like turning your shirt over because it's on inside-out). They play on. They keep their composure. They don't take it as a personal insult, then smash their racket and verbally assault the umpire.