How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Zhilady

Professional
I would say that is a false analogy. Professional sports is not, in any sense, a traditional workplace. Every professional sport deals with disagreements with officials that are often heated. There's no expectation that everyone will behave as if they're in an office job.
So I guess it's okay for the umpire to be called a thief and a liar for doing his job right, just because it's not "a traditional workplace". Thank you for letting me know that a Tennis umpire signs off his right to basic workplace dignity when he agrees to officiate a Tennis match. I am, however, glad that the rules don't comply with your standards and expectations and Serena Williams was penalized for her extremely unprofessional behavior.
 
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Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
Well deserved punishment to someone who thinks she is above the game. Everytime she is given a penalty it's always a conspiracy against the blacks . What kind of BS is this? How long should we have to put up with this kind of BS in this country? Grow some balls, accept you cheated by getting on court coaching, chin up and move on.
 

VaporDude95

Banned
I repeat. What a total psychopath and narcissist.
Totally ruined Osaka's moment when she was being clearly outplayed.
Now that she ruined the match and the trophy ceremony she's trying to calm things down.

She may go down as the female GOAT but she'll never get my respect as a person.
Steffi Graf is the female GOAT, but the mainstream culture will never recognise that because it’s obsessed with race instead of merit.
 

RIX TUX

New User
NO over reacting on the ump's part.
Serena just kept going on and on with her rants and the ump finally had enuff and gave her the 3rd violation.
And after that 1 game penalty she finally realized she better STFU.
And sweet Noami had to witness the drama queen or her special day.

ps....remember when sw got a hefty fine for threatening the linelady a couple of years ago?
 

atp2015

Hall of Fame
Maybe you are saying that naturalized citizens are not real Americans?
You understand that the foreign born NYers are American, right? Not the undocumented ones. But the ones who deserve to be here....are here....and they live here, work here, and they have a green card, or citizenship papers, and they are Americans.
Cannot be president. But they are Americans.

They likely came here because it is America. An urban, progressive part of America, but, America nonetheless.
If they came to NYC thinking it's real America, good luck to them. It shows lack of awareness and wisdom.
Are Citizenship papers real? I know printing has advanced in many parts of the world. The printing shops have good business creating fake but real looking documents.
Otherwise there is no way millions would be pouring into already overcrowded cities such as NYC with severe shortage of affordable housing for hard working native born Americans.
Dems love it because it means more power to them via tribal voting habits.
 

jukka1970

Professional
Well, maybe you missed the part where Serena told him he wont be ever in another match of her. I dont know what you qualify as verbal abuse, but for starters, yelling is a verbal abuse basically in any civilzed society. So your defense is poorer than Karlovic's one
I'm not telling you, that you have no idea what you're talking about. We have two different views on what qualifies as something serious enough to be verbal abuse. And I was very professional in how I said it. I mean maybe you had heard a threat or swear that I hadn't, in which case I would have agreed with everyone.

I did hear her say you won't be the umpire at any of mine again. But other players have done this and not be given a warning. And I still don't believe this to be enough. Someone posted under one of the other headings a video showing Nadal going off on the umpire saying he's never umpire at one of his games again. He had two warnings already for time violations. And he didn't get one for abuse
 

sportmac

Hall of Fame
Game penalty is not his call. It's what is earned after the third code violation.
She had been berating him off screen for a few minutes, calling him a liar and making threats that he would never referee another one of her matches, and then she personally attacks him. That's not okay. A verbal abuse call is warranted.

It just happened to be the third violation. I wouldn't say a racquet smash warrants a game penalty in and of itself either, but if it's the third one, you're out of luck
The point is it's his job to handle the situation and, as I said, IMO he didn't. At no point did he try to calm her down or tell her he wasn't calling her for coaching but her coach. At no point did I hear him say that she needed to calm down or she was just moments away from a game penalty.
All I heard was him defending his decision.
And because of that the 2018 US Open was as much about him as about the players. Granted, I wasn't privy to all that was said by either side but that's what I saw.
 
If they came to NYC thinking it's real America, good luck to them. It shows lack of awareness and wisdom.
Are Citizenship papers real? I know printing has advanced in many parts of the world. The printing shops have good business creating fake but real looking documents.
Otherwise there is no way millions would be pouring into already overcrowded cities such as NYC with severe shortage of affordable housing for hard working native born Americans.
Dems love it because it means more power to them via tribal voting habits.
Sorry. I think you might have moved some goalposts.
We were debating whether or not nyc is a part of America, but now we're talking about some immigrants who might or might not carry fake papers?
"Your papers please. Your papers."
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
This is the second time Williams has faced severe consequences in the US OPEN WOMEN'S SINGLES FINAL. In 2009 she was defaulted, although it was near the end, for threatening a lineswoman. Again, she denied it. She was shameful. https://nypost.com/2018/09/08/its-s...utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow
Yep real similar she was getting beat and she couldn’t take the loss so she threatens the lines woman. Same deal here she is a disgusting poor loser and a disgrace to the game.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Can Serena sue USTA ??? for like 50 million dollars ? that Game penalty did cost her the match..... it seems like. and now Serena can't break the record.... that's like worth 50 million ,, right ?
 

TennisaGoGo

Semi-Pro
And that for me is where the real issue lies is in the third call. I think that the referee and supervisor review everything and decide if this was clearly verbal abuse, which I honestly feel it was not
Me neither. Jack Sock asks the umpire in front of everyone “can I get another umpire?” And she asks “why?” And he says “because you’re atrocious.” That is demeaning and abusive. But she did the right thing and let him lose in his own.

Calling a ref a thief because he “stole” a point is obviously tongue in cheek. Telling him to say he’s sorry is borderline abuse but not game worthy in my opinion.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Serena has an attitude problem and she doesn't want to face it. She won't because she thinks she's a rock star, a diva, so rich and so famous that she can say, wear, do anything she pleases whenever and however she pleases. She justifies the escalation of her drama queen antics by playing the racism card (thankfully Osaka is non-white), the sexism card, the persecution card, the "I didn't know" card (really? After decades in the business??), anything rather than take personal responsibility for the way she behaves, the way she pushes the envelope, for acting entitled, using various intimidation techniques and expecting to get away with them.
Somebody has to put her back in her place for the good of the sport in general and set firm limits. Somebody has to let her know that she may be a billionaire and a superstar but in the context of tennis, she is just an athlete, a competing athlete that needs to obey rules, follow the guidelines and treat umps, linespeople, with a modicum of respect, leave the superhero ego in the locker room because this is not what the sport of tennis is about. The ump stood his ground and that's what Serena needs because her hubris is so oversized at this point. It's: me, me, me me and no the ump is not the boss, I am. Well , Serena, sometimes tough love is the best thing there is so, no, you are not the boss and you did get coached and you knew the rule about racquet abuse and after 2 code violations, you knew the 3rd one was game penalty. So when you started bullying the ump verbally and physically (finger wagging and other shenanigans vaguely reminiscent of the Clijsters line judge incident), you knew what was coming next.
And I know I should not mix politics into all this but at a time in the history of the US when the sitting president embodies the legitimization of bullying and intimidation over common sense, we need American athletes to reflect different values, even opposite values, more than ever before.
I almost forgot: Osaka played the perfect match. She didn't even lose focus after the long interruption and all the drama and that's the only thing we should be talking about tonight of course.
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
It's not my job.

Have you ever watched sports? This is what referees and umpires do all the bloody time. They manage situations just like this. It's part of their job.
She was not going to listen to anything he said, regardless of how he handled it. She has a track record of doing just that.

And for the love of god, please never tell an angry significant other to "calm down" when they are angry, or you'll end up sleeping under an overpass that night
 

gogo

Legend
Whatever you think of Serena and Naomi (and I adore Naomi), there is no doubt in my mind that the chair acted improperly.

I think there was gender bias at work. The first coaching violation? Deserved. The second violation? Deserved.

But I cannot begin to count the number of times men have sat in their chairs on changeovers and had heated discussions with umpires, and nothing whatever happens. But when it is Serena, it is a game penalty in the final. Insane. Her words were actually civil -- saying she deserved an apology, no profanity, no threats.

Need more proof?

In this same tournament, we had a chair umpire come out of his chair to basically coach Kirios in front of God and everyone. The proper response would have been to enforce the code of conduct, but no. Ump goes easy on the man, and USTA backs up the umpire.

By that standard, Ramos should have come out of his chair and talked to Serena, calm her nerves, tell her he wants to help her. Nope -- game penalty (when the tirade was over and he could have let it go) to put Serena's opponent a game away from the championship.

Congratulations to Naomi, but what happened today was rooted in disparate treatment and sexism.
I'm not sure I can agree with you. Serena doesn't 'deserve' special treatment. She antagonized the ump.
Are women held to a higher standard than men? Undoubtedly. It's seen time and time again. It sucks, and men just laugh and take advantage.
But, Serena still stepped out of bounds here.

And, it doesn't excuse Serena from playing the martyr in the championship celebration.
Now men, get your act together!
 

Zhilady

Professional
No the umpire did not do his job properly! Coaching has been going on all tournament long and not once has it been called but it got called against Serena. You really think he would have done the same if it would have been Fed, Nadal or Murray?
So let me get this straight. The umpire didn't do his job properly by enforcing a rule because other umpires aren't doing their jobs properly by not enforcing a rule? Did I get that right?
 

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Hilarious, you never been to a soccer game in europe? Next time Hitler invades Europe, us ignorant Americans will stay home and let you high cultured euros nuance the situation between yourselves with your high standard of living allowed for because you don't need to pay for a military because AMERICAN lives have been protecting you--not anymore.
Mate stop saying "we" as if you had anything to do with it. You can't get your fat ass off the couch, let alone protect someone during a war. Also, what I said had absolutely nothing to do with the military. No idea why you had to bring that up. If you don't realise things are messed up right now, I don't even know what to say anymore.
 

Djokovicfan

Semi-Pro
Theres a fallacy in womens tennis. The powers that be try to pretend that womens tennis is popular because it is almost as good as mens tennis. But the real reason is obvious. If all the WTA pros were forced to wear khaki pants and a sweatshirt, viewership numbers would drop like a stone. Womens tennis is, to be fair, more competitive than other womens sports. But this is because tournament winnings and sponsorship deals are bigger than any other womens sport. But the reason the tournament/sponsorship deals are so high is because a skirt and long tan legs attract enough male (and female) audience to justify such big purses/sponsorships. The lucrativeness of a sport depends on how many people watch it/follow it. And as said, short skirts and long tan athletic legs gets alot of viewers that dont even watch mens tennis.
So to say 100% of the WTA audience is watching for the sake of good tennis is simply dishonest.
Sure, the competitiveness of womens tennis is high for a womens sport, but the sex appeal aspect is the foundation that led to that.

Sparknotes:
1. Lots of people start watching fit women playing sport in skirts.
2. Having lots of viewers justifies/leads to big tournament winnings/sponsorship deals.
3. Big prizes/big sponsorships lead to lots of girls and women taking tennis very seriously/competitively.
4. As more parents/girls regard tennis as a lucrative career opportunity, the future competitiveness level of womens tennis goes up and up.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Serena has an attitude problem and she doesn't want to face it. She won't because she thinks she's a rock star, a diva, so rich and so famous that she can say, wear, do anything she pleases whenever and however she pleases. She justifies the escalation of her drama queen antics by playing the racism card (thankfully Osaka is non-white), the sexism card, the persecution card, the "I didn't know" card (really? After decades in the business??), anything rather than take personal responsibility for the way she behaves, the way she pushes the envelope, for acting entitled, using various intimidation techniques and expecting to get away with them.
Somebody has to put her back in her place for the good of the sport in general and set firm limits. Somebody has to let her know that she may be a billionaire and a superstar but in the context of tennis, she is just an athlete, a competing athlete that needs to obey rules, follow the guidelines and treat umps, linespeople, with a modicum of respect, leave the superhero ego in the locker room because this is not what the sport of tennis is about. The ump stood his ground and that's what Serena needs because her hubris is so oversized at this point. It's: me, me, me me and no the ump is not the boss, I am. Well , Serena, sometimes tough love is the best thing there is so, no, you are not the boss and you did get coached and you knew the rule about racquet abuse and after 2 code violations, you knew the 3rd one was game penalty. So when you started bullying the ump verbally and physically (finger wagging and other shenanigans vaguely reminiscent of the Clijsters line judge incident), you knew what was coming next.
And I know I should not mix politics into all this but at a time in the history of the US where the sitting president embodies the legitimization of bullying and intimidation over common sense, we need American athletes to reflect different values, even opposite values, more than ever before.
I almost forgot: Osaka played the perfect match. She didn't even lose focus after the long interruption and all the drama and that's the only thing we should be talking about tonight of course.
Serena is a spoiled Bullie...... Period
 

swizzy

Hall of Fame
she is an idiot.. what she did was disgusting.. her reaction and response to her own behavior is just silly
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
I think this deserves some logical analysis, LOL.

1. Serena knows the rules. She knows that when a coach is accused of coaching from the stands that this doesn't necessarily mean she's cheating, but that he is. This could be resolved in one of two ways. Either prevent coaches from sitting so close to the players so there's no chance of seeing or receiving signals or fine the coach for doing this. Coaches will stop pretty quickly.
2. Serena knows the sequence of violations and their consequences. She escalated the problem by smashing her racket. It was out of frustration, but at that point in the match, she'd only lost a point. Not even a break point. If she wants to be a role model for athletes out there, then don't go around doing that. She put herself in the precarious position of facing a possible game violation.
3. While it's true that a lot of coaches get away with saying and doing horrible things, that doesn't justify what happened when Serena went ballistic on the umpire. Remember, she's done this before. She defaulted in 2009 final when she threatened a lineswoman. She should have known better than to threaten the umpire. In addition to insulting him, she also told him he would never work again. She has a bad temper and there was just no call for her to behave like that.

But, there's another side to it. We all know that players do go ballistic from time to time. In all the years of watching tennis, I've never seen a game violation before. I think the umpire could have tried to ask Serena to calm down, or he would have to give her a game violation. I suppose we can argue she should already know that, but when you're in the heat of the moment it's easy to forget. However, she's 37 years old and a mother now. She should be more in control of her temper.

The worst part of it for me was that Naomi Osaka played brilliantly. She consistently outplayed Serena and earned that victory 100%. The comments made by the head of the USTA were horrible. She didn't even congratulate or acknowledge Osaka's victory. She should resign. That's unprofessional. The booing from the fans was disgusting as well. Naomi didn't deserve that.
 
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