How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
Status
Not open for further replies.

zep

Hall of Fame
At no point did he try to calm her down or tell her he wasn't calling her for coaching but her coach.
Why should he have done that? She's a 37 year old grown woman. She should have known better. The way she reacted to the coaching violation was completely unacceptable. And there's no such thing as coaching violation for just the coach, not the player. There's no way for the umpire to know if the player was paying attention to those signals or not.
 

sportmac

Hall of Fame
She was not going to listen to anything he said, regardless of how he handled it. She has a track record of doing just that.

And for the love of god, please never tell an angry significant other to "calm down" when they are angry, or you'll end up sleeping under an overpass that night
It doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks she "would" have done. It doesn't matter what her track record is. What matters is that it's his job to handle this and to not become part of the story in the process.
 
So let me get this straight. The umpire didn't do his job properly by enforcing a rule because other umpires aren't doing their jobs properly by not enforcing a rule? Did I get that right?
Yes, correct. Sorry to tell you mate, but just for that bit of tuffluv.... you now owe us an apology.
WHERE IS MY APOLOGY!?

Edit....also you now owe lance armstrong an apology. Same logic.
 

tenisdecente

Hall of Fame
Me neither. Jack Sock asks the umpire in front of everyone “can I get another umpire?” And she asks “why?” And he says “because you’re atrocious.” That is demeaning and abusive. But she did the right thing and let him lose in his own.

Calling a ref a thief because he “stole” a point is obviously tongue in cheek. Telling him to say he’s sorry is borderline abuse but not game worthy in my opinion.
Thing is that she had two previous warnings, so the abuse deserved another warning, and this time was a game. It is not like Ramos can choose what punishment should be applied, she played with fire knowing he had two warnings and got burned.

I'm not telling you, that you have no idea what you're talking about. We have two different views on what qualifies as something serious enough to be verbal abuse. And I was very professional in how I said it. I mean maybe you had heard a threat or swear that I hadn't, in which case I would have agreed with everyone.

I did hear her say you won't be the umpire at any of mine again. But other players have done this and not be given a warning. And I still don't believe this to be enough. Someone posted under one of the other headings a video showing Nadal going off on the umpire saying he's never umpire at one of his games again. He had two warnings already for time violations. And he didn't get one for abuse
So basically you said that BECAUSE other umpired DO NOT enforce rules in the book, then this is bad umpiring. Nice try, but sorry, not this time.
And I stand by what I said. Nadal was not yelling like a possessed man at Bernardes. He was pi$$ed off, but even in that situation he was not throwing the toys out of the pram because one call was not what he expected. He was WRONG then, but compared to what Serena did tonight, he was OK. Let it go man, you are not right in this one
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Worry not, distraught Serena diehards. She will eventually tie Court's record and there will be more magic for you.
I know this is what it's all about. It's never just a tennis match, is it.
Serena fans - like Federer fans - need to chill, everything's ruined because of the drama that surrounds the need to proclaim them as GOATs and the absolute terror of the very unlikely chance that it might elude them.
I would fear the worst for Nadal or Djokovic if they were ever in a situation where they're a match away from tying the 20 Slam mark.
Günter Parche would become a mere footnote in tennis history.
Serena doesn't even have to worry about anyone chasing her in her lifetime.
Relax. Breathe. She'll do it. She's in almost every Slam final, for god's sake.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
Serena ruins Naomi’s moment, attempts to stop the bleeding of this pathetic mess she created, gets hailed a class act.

This is pathetic.
I agree. Serena acted like McEnroe for most of the match. All 3 violations were legit and now Serena is getting praised. Serena ruined the match for Osaka and Serena was 100% responsible for the situation. Most players know to clean up their behavior after the 1st warning but Serena kept pushing it.
 

sportmac

Hall of Fame
Why should he have done that? She's a 37 year old grown woman. She should have known better. The way she reacted to the coaching violation was completely unacceptable. And there's no such thing as coaching violation for just the coach, not the player. There's no way for the umpire to know if the player was paying attention to those signals or not.
Again, because it's his job to do it.

37? What, athletes don't lose it after a certain age? We all magically grow up and never ever have moments where we should have known better once we've reached it?
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Serena has an attitude problem and she doesn't want to face it. She won't because she thinks she's a rock star, a diva, so rich and so famous that she can say, wear, do anything she pleases whenever and however she pleases. She justifies the escalation of her drama queen antics by playing the racism card (thankfully Osaka is non-white), the sexism card, the persecution card, the "I didn't know" card (really? After decades in the business??), anything rather than take personal responsibility for the way she behaves, the way she pushes the envelope, for acting entitled, using various intimidation techniques and expecting to get away with them.
Somebody has to put her back in her place for the good of the sport in general and set firm limits. Somebody has to let her know that she may be a billionaire and a superstar but in the context of tennis, she is just an athlete, a competing athlete that needs to obey rules, follow the guidelines and treat umps, linespeople, with a modicum of respect, leave the superhero ego in the locker room because this is not what the sport of tennis is about. The ump stood his ground and that's what Serena needs because her hubris is so oversized at this point. It's: me, me, me me and no the ump is not the boss, I am. Well , Serena, sometimes tough love is the best thing there is so, no, you are not the boss and you did get coached and you knew the rule about racquet abuse and after 2 code violations, you knew the 3rd one was game penalty. So when you started bullying the ump verbally and physically (finger wagging and other shenanigans vaguely reminiscent of the Clijsters line judge incident), you knew what was coming next.
And I know I should not mix politics into all this but at a time in the history of the US when the sitting president embodies the legitimization of bullying and intimidation over common sense, we need American athletes to reflect different values, even opposite values, more than ever before.
I almost forgot: Osaka played the perfect match. She didn't even lose focus after the long interruption and all the drama and that's the only thing we should be talking about tonight of course.
 

deaner2211

Semi-Pro
So let me get this straight. The umpire didn't do his job properly by enforcing a rule because other umpires aren't doing their jobs properly by not enforcing a rule? Did I get that right?
So you are saying that of all the matches that were played this week the women's final was his only one?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Men get away with bad behaviour a lot more than women and top male players get away with it a lot more than lesser ones. Ramos was being officious!

Thing is that she had two previous warnings, so the abuse deserved another warning, and this time was a game. It is not like Ramos can choose what punishment should be applied, she played with fire knowing he had two warnings and got burned.



So basically you said that BECAUSE other umpired DO NOT enforce rules in the book, then this is bad umpiring. Nice try, but sorry, not this time.
And I stand by what I said. Nadal was not yelling like a possessed man at Bernardes. He was pi$$ed off, but even in that situation he was not throwing the toys out of the pram because one call was not what he expected. He was WRONG then, but compared to what Serena did tonight, he was OK. Let it go man, you are not right in this one
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
Serena ruins Naomi’s moment, attempts to stop the bleeding of this pathetic mess she created, gets hailed a class act.

This is pathetic.
Ohhhhhhhhhh, woe!!! So much hate! So much ignowahnce!

then why do we even have tournament Refrees ?? are they useless ?
I made a thread asking this same question once. It was the wawrinka nadal final where the umpire refused to say what treatment nadal had when he ran off court to get some coaching and a mental reset, tournament ref just did nothing.

I can't believe that the us open released a statement praising williams after what she did on court. Sweet baby jesus, imagine that was kyrgios. They would have lynched him. His career would be over. It would be major news. But serena gets gushing praise.

ATP and WTA need to be aired out in the sunlight and disinfected like FIFA or the IOC.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
A player who is on tour for 20+ years needs explained what constitutes coaching violation ?

What next, Serena will ask that the umpire did not tell her about let, second serve and foot fault ?
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Again, because it's his job to do it.

37? What, athletes don't lose it after a certain age? We all magically grow up and never ever have moments where we should have known better once we've reached it?
It's not his job to calm players down. He's not a shrink.

I can accept a teenager acting like that but not a grown up. She was constantly bullying the umpire after that coaching code violation.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Commentators used to go ballistic when a time violation warning was called at the end of a set due to the umpire intruding into the game!
 

Ledigs

Legend
It’s hard enough to get more people into tennis here in the US. With negative role models and controversies like this, who wants to bring their kids to tennis matches, knowing players berate umpires and this is considered just fine? Carlos was right to give consequences for this, she made tennis look awful to a big audience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
In an odd way,, I think this Women's final saved the US open from boring irrelevant women's final again.... this gave it Drama, fight, name calling,,, and new young star is also born.............WOW
Ha ha can't be beat for drama but I really felt for Osaka who was visibly upset and at a loss. This 1st slam win will almost end up being a trauma despite the fact that she played stunningly, almost flawlessly and deserves every kudo. (Not to mention Serena will get all the headlines. Kind of sad she is turning a phenomenal career into a neverending circus of megalomania, provocations and misbehaviors.)
 

atp2015

Hall of Fame
Sorry. I think you might have moved some goalposts.
We were debating whether or not nyc is a part of America, but now we're talking about some immigrants who might or might not carry fake papers?
"."
You claimed someone carrying citizenship paper is American. As some statesman said America is its ideals, culture and values.
It's not counted using some paper.
Of course, you are not likely to get it with your paper based American legal presence.
 

ppmishra

Rookie
The point penalty was well and truly deserved after the racquet smashing. While I think her initial response to ramos before that was polite enough, and I also believe ramos could have warned her before the game penalty was awarded, but she's an adult who knew the rules and should have behaved like one.
 

Mustard

Talk Tennis Guru
The events of tonight show that Serena Williams has not learned anything from that US Open match years back against Kim Clijsters.
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
So you don't watch sports either. Got it.
Usually other teammates or coaches calm a player down. The refs walk away or remain stoic. You can place some of the blame on the chair ump, but the majority of it is shouldered by the 37 year old veteran.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zep

Ann

Hall of Fame
What happens when you @ someone?
I know what happens on twitter... but on a message board I have no clue.
 
Last edited:
How do you know I have a fat ass--you been checking me out in the locker room???

Hilarious, you never been to a soccer game in europe? Next time Hitler invades Europe, us ignorant Americans will stay home and let you high cultured euros nuance the situation between yourselves with your high standard of living allowed for because you don't need to pay for a military because AMERICAN lives have been protecting you--not anymore.

serena robbed Naomi of the joy of winning--serena had another roid rage--poor 1%'er.
Mate stop saying "we" as if you had anything to do with it. You can't get your fat ass off the couch, let alone protect someone during a war. Also, what I said had absolutely nothing to do with the military. No idea why you had to bring that up. If you don't realise things are messed up right now, I don't even know what to say anymore.
That’s the US mentality, no? It’s either black or white. Good or bad. Progressive or conservative. Democrat or republican. Nothing in between, no nuance whatsoever. And you’re the greatest country so the rest should just follow suit.

Too bad you need to have a certain level of intelligence to be able to reflect on your own thoughts and behavior to notice these things.

The greatest country is really great at shouting their own unnuanced opinions, booing the other team, creating global tensions in areas of race, gender and sexuality that are only making matters worse, complaining about their presidential stable genius that they elected themselves, and most of all: you’re great at calling yourselves the greatest country in the world. Always with a straight face and without a hint of shame:)
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
He apparently got into trouble for talking to the press too much at RG and giving away her strategies.

Now he started the ball rolling on a final disaster by making hand gestures from the crowd.

Wondering if he's going to get the boot now.
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
Damn straight. For crying out loud, you would think she'd come back from a spinal injury or heart surgery, not from having a goddam kid!

US media and ESPN make me want to vomit copiously in my beer.
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
I disgaree with the umpire being thin skinned. It wasn't just the thief comment that made her receive the violation i think. It was also the constant demanding of an apology, saying he will never umpire her matches. It may not be abuse
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
I disagree with the umpire being wrong. He was well within the rules handing out the penalty
 
Last edited:

sredna42

Hall of Fame
You do realize Serena got violations for on court coaching and racquet abuse right? Third violation is a game penalty. Serena abusing the umpire for fricking 15 minutes is the same as Nick's situation? Uhm, OK.
LOL as well at OP being munted and drunk on MSM koolaid enough to drag kyrgios into it as a comparison. FFS If Kyrgios had done this on court can you wrap your mind around the response! He merely loses a set and its headline news slamming him. If he had melted down like this he would be fined through the roof and suspended for a year, and the msm would be like pirhanas in a frenzy
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top