How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Mohammed Lahyani got all kinds of crap for dutch uncling kyrigos when he was tanking, now Ramos is supposed to be serena's shrink--calm her down--maybe give her a cranial-sacral treatment on court. her highness likes to degrade the little people like chair umps and linespeople who make a few bucks for facilitating her matches while her highness makes millions for losing and from nike--a profound example of income ineqaulity. Her fine will be made into another nike commercial like her previous roid rage was against the diminutive Asian lady she threatened to shove a ball down her throat. $92,000 a pitance for all the free publicity--very fitting they had her on a shrink's couch--her current stunt was probably staged as a tie-in for nike's craperdick ad campaign--another genius media move by madison ave.
This type of disproportionate anger and hatred for Serena is disturbingly common. I'm not really a fan of hers, but it's kind of odd that some people hate her so much.
 
Maybe I am just way to logical. But like many other sports just kick the coach out or don't have the coach close you avoid all these problems. If a coach can't coach, then he should not be there and if he is there and screws up give him the punishment not the player. Tennis is weird.
Kicking a coach out in soccer has a clear negative impact for the whole team, for at least 2 matches.

If you just kick the tennis coach out of the court, the player can still benefit from the received coaching. Other than that, a single or double warning in general has little to no impact on the outcome of a tennis match, for sure the impact is smaller than a single yellow card in a soccer match, so from a logical perspective imo the player warning is fine.
 
You made the claim that refs in other sports diffuse the situation. That’s on you to prove, not on me to disprove
What I said was they manage situations like this all the time. It's right there in black and white.
I certainly never said ref's don't "dole out punishment" or anything like it yet for some reason you seem to think I should prove that.
 
Me too. I have two (and one is a professional athlete). Me, my wife and both daughters were stoked to watch Naomi push Serena around today. And all of us (son included in this one) HATED how Serena seriously ruined the match. Total disgrace...yet again at the US Open. We really don't like this woman and can't wait for her to retire.
she just need to have more babies (daughters) for the next ten yrs - that way, no one will NEVER ever call her a cheater
 
As has become the case with most controversies, we have made it a choice between two extremes. Some say Serena did absolutely nothing wrong and is a hero for standing up to the chair umpire and calling him a thief.

The other side says takes joy in pointing out that the umpire acted within the rules and say that Serena deserved the consequences. There was absolutely nothing dubious about the chair's decision.

Clearly, the truth is in the middle of these extremes. Each warning against Serena was technically legitimate, and she should not have called the umpire a thief. On the other hand, it would have been best if the umpire had used a little discretion and not issued a game penalty. Thief is not such a vulgar term that he couldn't have chosen to withhold the penalty.

Serena was not blameless or heroic for yelling at the umpire, but that doesn't mean he made the best possible decision, either.
Uh no, sometimes a spade is a spade. Serena is a thug and everyone saw that today. US Open crowd disgusting thug worshipers as usual.
 
Kicking a coach out in soccer has a clear negative impact for the whole team, for at least 2 matches.

If you just kick the tennis coach out of the court, the player can still benefit from the received coaching. Other than that, a single or double warning in general has little to no impact on the outcome of a tennis match, for sure the impact is smaller than a single yellow card in a soccer match, so from a logical perspective imo the player warning is fine.
The players has nothing to do with the coach. In baseball the coach gets kicked out. They don't put two strikes on a player cause the coach acts like an idiot. They kick the coach out period.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
Sexism comment was that men do the same(yell at umps and coach)and are allowed to get away with it and not get a penalty. Serena is right and I agree with her. However just because others do it and get away with it doesnt mean you should too or expect to. I am team Serena but she loses this argument. Why stoop to the level of the men if true. She is being held to a higher standard here. If she was being held to a lower standard than she should be held to that higher standard. But I know she is equating this with respect and I think that maybe flawed as well.

Also you missed all other umps not named Ramos who let things slide and dont endorce rules and made him look bad.
However she meant the sexism comment it wasn't helpful.

In regards to including all other umps, they had nothing to do with the match. It would have been a mighty opening post and herculean effort to have included everything that was wrong with tonight's match had I extended the comment peripherally.
 
Don't insult people just because you disagree with them. Personal attacks aren't tolerated on TTW, read the rules.
An insult would be using a derogatory word, which this isn't. I guess you're at liberty to define 'insult' however you wish, though, are you not?
That person's posting history easily demonstrates they have no tolerance for opposing viewpoints, which is a strong indicator of terrible people.
 
Lol, in 2009 Serena was getting pummeled by Clijsters. She went ballistic towards a female umpire and nearly postal towards an Asian line judge for calling a footfault. So, she was being a sexist and she must not like Asians. This rant about fighting for equality and women’s rights, mothers is like irrelevant to a tennis match.
Anybody who worships any celeb or athlete to be social justice warriors is dumb and sheep to the establishment who manipulates them.
 
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
Serena was displaying persistent, repetitive verbal abuse toward the chair umpire and he "coded" her for it.

The umpire was right.

But if it makes you feel better, I'll double up with you in terms of the fans. They were a bunch of unschooled drunken hyenas.
 
Yes. But i believe the correct spelling has some sort of number sign or pound sign as a prefix.
So, uhm, yeah, I fixed that for you, yo.
@natalia .

So, here is whut i have lurnd.
When you are losing, get very upset. Do not treat winning and losing the same. Be abusive. Do what thou wilt, dammit!
When being cautioned or warned, fight for your entitlement.
When rules are enforced, be outraged. You are not paranoid if the conspiracy is real and they really are out to get you. It is personal, so get mad and show it. Be abusive and be outraged if they think you are being abusive.
Then, turn it into a gender bias issue. Be professionally offended. Turn into social justice. Not so Chill Just us.
and bring your newborn into it. fight for her because injustice is so blind. doesn't it see that she is a proud mom?
mama said knock you out? greatest athlete of all time? who the f*k came up with that garbage?
so many questions unanswered here. WTF
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Finally watched the presser and can't believe she's so sure that if it was a man in that situation it wouldn't have been called. For one thing, no man has been in a situation like that since - surprise surprise - John McEnroe, and he was served his comeuppance right away because he was straight up defaulted. Second, any player in that situation toeing the line and mouthing off constantly with two violations in the books and a game penalty coming is playing with fire, no ifs ands or buts about it.
 
I almost forgot: Osaka played the perfect match. She didn't even lose focus after the long interruption and all the drama and that's the only thing we should be talking about tonight of course.
This is precisely what she intended to do, draw more attention to herself and take away NO's precious day.

Now its up to us real fans to speak of Naomi's achievement and not dwell on this nonsense. It was a display of utmost disgrace in every way from broadcasters, to audience, to trophy presenters.

We need to generate positive things towards Naomi.
 
The players has nothing to do with the coach. In baseball the coach gets kicked out. They don't put two strikes on a player cause the coach acts like an idiot. They kick the coach out period.
So kicking a baseball coach out has no impact on the rest of the team or the match? Why is the coach even there in the first place anyway? If a player or coach in a team sports get punished, that also affects the whole team. It should be similar in tennis.
 
Which is worse,telling the tournament referee to go f--- his mother(which is what Mac did, I followed tennis in 1990) or what Serena did?

Ken Farrar, the referee, said he would have automatically defaulted Mac even if he had no code violations at that point so egregious was what Mac said. He said no player had ever spoke to me that way(and he had dealt with Mac for many years at that point)
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Which is worse,telling the tournament referee to go f--- his mother(which is what Mac did, I followed tennis in 1990) or what Serena did?

Ken Farrar, the referee, said he would have automatically defaulted Mac even if he had no code violations at that point so egregious was what Mac said. He said no player had ever spoke to me that way(and he had dealt with Mac for many years at that point)
Feinstein said as much in Hard Courts. Not Mac's finest moment.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
Serena was displaying persistent, repetitive verbal abuse toward the chair umpire and he "coded" her for it.

The umpire was right.

But if it makes you feel better, I'll double up with you in terms of the fans. They were a bunch of unschooled drunken hyenas.
Serena's behavior was atrocious but I still think the umpire continually exacerbated the situation.
 
Which is worse,telling the tournament referee to go f--- his mother(which is what Mac did, I followed tennis in 1990) or what Serena did?

Ken Farrar, the referee, said he would have automatically defaulted Mac even if he had no code violations at that point so egregious was what Mac said. He said no player had ever spoke to me that way(and he had dealt with Mac for many years at that point)
Have you read John Feinstein's discussion of it in Hard Courts?
 
So kicking a baseball coach out has no impact on the rest of the team or the match? Why is the coach even there in the first place anyway? If a player in a team sports get punished, that also affects the whole team. It should be similar in tennis.
In baseball and heck in most pro team sports, heck even in lets say golf. A player breaks a bat nothing happens he breaks a freaking bat. Nothing happens to tiger woods when he smashes his four iron over his knee. Tennis needs to get out of the gilded age. This stuff is silly. Regardless of players knowing the rules. No hockey player gets a penalty for breaking his stick apart. This is all stupid. You don't give a warning to a player cause the coach is off his rocker. She or he can't control them. They are playing a game. It leads to dumb crap like this.
 
So you automatically go to sexism? How about there being different umpires? How about different situations? Nope it was definitely because Ramos hates women. You guys seem to imagine him up there plotting away at what he can do to women next. There were also other Serena matches where she’s gotten away with a hell of a lot btw.
You don’t understand gender bias at all.

I am not talking about misogyny, that is hatred of women.

I am talking about disparate treatment, a double standard, in that a tirade of a woman is punished in a situation where a Man in the same situation would not have been punished.

The disparity is so disgusting and obvious. Man goes on tirade on changeover and yells at ump, and commentators say he is “passionate” and he is “fired up” and he is “barking” and the match is “important to him.” Woman goes on tirade in the final of a major and she gets no warning, and ump makes ludicrous decision to code her. She wasn’t refusing to play. She was literally on her way back out to the court and he hit her with the third code. Terrible use of discretion.

And I cannot think of a match where Serena ever gets away with anything. Can you refresh my memory? I even recall her getting a hindrance call for yelling after she hit her shot against Stosur — can anyone recall that ever being called on someone else?

I’ll bet if you asked Ramos if he would handle things differently with hindsight, he would say yes.
 
Serena lost in 2 slam finals. Destroyed in the first. Humiliated and embarrassed herself in the second. Breadstick and bageled by Konta. Wearing a horrid purple tutu thinking it looked good on her. Not only a very good day, but a very good year. :D
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Which is worse,telling the tournament referee to go f--- his mother(which is what Mac did, I followed tennis in 1990) or what Serena did?

Ken Farrar, the referee, said he would have automatically defaulted Mac even if he had no code violations at that point so egregious was what Mac said. He said no player had ever spoke to me that way(and he had dealt with Mac for many years at that point)
What was it like hearing about that when it first broke? Man, I can only imagine; apparently McEnroe was playing some very good tennis up until Pernfors.
 
I wouldn't describe the mainstream as obsessed with race, but it's a very familiar right-wing populist argument that it is.
Oh here we go.

The only people I see that are obsessed with race are people within the modern left:
- “White privilege”
- “White MALE” (reeeeee)
- “Cultural appropriation”
- “Black Lives Matter” (lol)
- “Oppression”
- “Diversity”
- “Diversity quotas” (where people get hired based on race instead of merit)

I could go on and on. The modern left even goes so far as to equate religion with race (e.g. “Stop saying Islam is cancer. That’s rAciST!”)
So please, don’t try and twist this into a “right wing” thing, because it clearly isn’t.
 

Bartelby

Talk Tennis Guru
I have a feeling Serena has won the media war and that Ramos will be scourged and Osaka's victory relegated to the sports page.

She's a good American, obviously!
 
and bring your newborn into it. fight for her because injustice is so blind. doesn't it see that she is a proud mom?
mama said knock you out? greatest athlete of all time? who the f*k came up with that garbage?
so many questions unanswered here. WTF
Look man.
Don't call it a comeback
She's been here for years
rocking her peers
Puttin' suckers in fear
Makin' titles rain down like a monsoon
Listen to the hindrance go boom
Code violations, overpowerin'
Over the competition She's towerin'
Wrecking shop when She makes the shots
footfaults That'll make you call the cops
Don't you dare stare, you better move
Don't ever compare
Me to the rest that'll all get sliced and diced
Officialdom's payin' the price
 
America's "ideals and values" happen to be diversity, multiculturalism and a safe haven for immigrants (symbol = Statue of Liberty). Anything else is actually profoundly anti-American
Maybe. But I also remember being told that America was a "melting pot". Meaning that wherever you came from you adopted American ways. Multicultural? Somewhat, but in the 1920s there were quotas over how many people could be accepted from different nations.

Maybe that was wrong and how it is now is better, but historically, these things have not been Americas "ideals and values".
 
I'm not telling you, that you have no idea what you're talking about. We have two different views on what qualifies as something serious enough to be verbal abuse. And I was very professional in how I said it. I mean maybe you had heard a threat or swear that I hadn't, in which case I would have agreed with everyone.

I did hear her say you won't be the umpire at any of mine again. But other players have done this and not be given a warning. And I still don't believe this to be enough. Someone posted under one of the other headings a video showing Nadal going off on the umpire saying he's never umpire at one of his games again. He had two warnings already for time violations. And he didn't get one for abuse
No umpire will ever give any of the Big 3 a game violation. Won't happen.
 
An insult would be using a derogatory word, which this isn't. I guess you're at liberty to define 'insult' however you wish, though, are you not?
That person's posting history easily demonstrates they have no tolerance for opposing viewpoints, which is a strong indicator of terrible people.
Let's just be kind to one another, ok? :) I'll try to.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
It really doesn't, even after having watched McEnroe for years, I was astonished at his behavior. He was unhinged.

Damn that man could throw an epic tantrum. I miss him.

He also didn't cry.
 
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