How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Let's just be kind to one another, ok? :) I'll try to.
Good response.
Not everyone appreciates when you try to be nice, unfortunately. So a few users here I'm not really about to be nice to because they don't reciprocate anyway. :0 Guess I'm back to ignoring them for the time being.
 
They did show him making the thumbs up gesture, and there are videos online showing it
Not a thumbs up gesture. Rena might have interpreted it as such. A few commentators did too, and Mj fernandez interpreted it is go forward. Go for it. Keep advancing. But the real truth is, patrick mouraCoachglu was motioning a narrow court and mouthing very clearly, "Middle....meedoll...middle". He was trying to convey the obvious: that naomi moves well, and moving her is backfiring because naomi spreads the court better on the run, and burns serena from the alleys. He was trying to get rena to NOT move naomi, so naomi would have smaller angles...so rena would not have to run as much.

Great coaching. Very sound.
Busted.
But everyone else coaches!
So ramos is at fault!
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Whatever you think of Serena and Naomi (and I adore Naomi), there is no doubt in my mind that the chair acted improperly.

I think there was gender bias at work. The first coaching violation? Deserved. The second violation? Deserved.

But I cannot begin to count the number of times men have sat in their chairs on changeovers and had heated discussions with umpires, and nothing whatever happens. But when it is Serena, it is a game penalty in the final. Insane. Her words were actually civil -- saying she deserved an apology, no profanity, no threats.

Need more proof?

In this same tournament, we had a chair umpire come out of his chair to basically coach Kirios in front of God and everyone. The proper response would have been to enforce the code of conduct, but no. Ump goes easy on the man, and USTA backs up the umpire.

By that standard, Ramos should have come out of his chair and talked to Serena, calm her nerves, tell her he wants to help her. Nope -- game penalty (when the tirade was over and he could have let it go) to put Serena's opponent a game away from the championship.

Congratulations to Naomi, but what happened today was rooted in disparate treatment and sexism.
No, it wasn't.

Serena was a powder keg today and she ended up exploding.

Move on
 

kaiotic

Rookie
Look man.
Don't call it a comeback
She's been here for years
rocking her peers
Puttin' suckers in fear
Makin' titles rain down like a monsoon
Listen to the hindrance go boom
Code violations, overpowerin'
Over the competition She's towerin'
Wrecking shop when She makes the shots
footfaults That'll make you call the cops
Don't you dare stare, you better move
Don't ever compare
Me to the rest that'll all get sliced and diced
Officialdom's payin' the price
I prefer an Around the Way Girl,
Standing at the bus stop, sucking on a lillipop.
kids free
 

markwillplay

Hall of Fame
I am sitting in my underwear.....and I am right. She could not let it go. There is a reason for that. Umpires are there to enforce rules. Do I think he could have told her that if she did not stop he was going to hit her with a 3rd code and take a game? Yes. Would it have made any difference? I doubt it. Why did she demand an apology? She had to “win” the debate. None of this would have happened if she had been winning the match. When she started talking about women bs men in the press conference I threw up in my mouth. Talk about a re herring. I don’t know what is worse, the fact that she tried to turn this into a feminist issue or the fact that the commentators on ESPN let her off the hook. I have been watching her since she was 15. I am not shocked at all. My favorite comment she made is that it always happens to here there. Like in 2009 she was a victim. Good grief. How many other women players have actually threatened to shove a ball down a line women’s throat.
 

jukka1970

Professional
Yes, and she was not even disqualified LOL or even suspended. Just a fine and that was it.
So, tell me, that in your book was OK?
I can accept that verbal abuse is a bit subjective - now, if you are the authority and receive that kind of treatment from a player, would you let it go only for the (allegedly) good of the match?
Not only Serena is a human being there or is doing her job there, the guy is exactly in the same position and deserves respect
Oh no, it wasn't acceptable at all, and I would have suspended her for that, along with the fine. Honestly, and I'll admit I can't prove it, but I think the only reason she didn't get suspended is because there wasn't a clear audio of it. If there was, shame on the tennis organizations for letting it go
 
I need love.
I'm that type of guy (incredible lyrics).
Can't live widout My radio.
I'm going back to compton. Compton. Compton. I'm goin backta compton. I don't think so.

"Say it. Say yer sorry.
Then don't talk to me."

"I get the rules. But it is just not right."
 

jbm

Rookie
That’s the US mentality, no? It’s either black or white. Good or bad. Progressive or conservative. Democrat or republican. Nothing in between, no nuance whatsoever. And you’re the greatest country so the rest should just follow suit.

Too bad you need to have a certain level of intelligence to be able to reflect on your own thoughts and behavior to notice these things.

The greatest country is really great at shouting their own unnuanced opinions, booing the other team, creating global tensions in areas of race, gender and sexuality that are only making matters worse, complaining about their presidential stable genius that they elected themselves, and most of all: you’re great at calling yourselves the greatest country in the world. Always with a straight face and without a hint of shame:)
Ramos is a great American, no?
 
This was like giving a red card in the box during injury time at a World Cup final to the losing team in the final mins... let them play it out.... obviously he wanted his 2 cents heard...

I’m just saying
He could had let them play on And if Serena lose it was fair and square...

Now honestly what if will
Be surrounding this moment for Osaka for life...

The ref should had let it slide and let it get dirty... like seriously, she was on her way out...

Sad part is even when Serena lost, she is winning in media.... good or bad publicity... 90% of social media barely mention Osaka’s win, but the Serena event
 
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jukka1970

Professional
Not a thumbs up gesture. Rena might have interpreted it as such. A few commentators did too, and Mj fernandez interpreted it is go forward. Go for it. Keep advancing. But the real truth is, patrick mouraCoachglu was motioning a narrow court and mouthing very clearly, "Middle....meedoll...middle". He was trying to convey the obvious: that naomi moves well, and moving her is backfiring because naomi spreads the court better on the run, and burns serena from the alleys. He was trying to get rena to NOT move naomi, so naomi would have smaller angles...so rena would not have to run as much.

Great coaching. Very sound.
Busted.
But everyone else coaches!
So ramos is at fault!
Ok, but I'm not faulting him for it, all I said was that its questionable, but I agreed with that call. And yes guess I was essentially trying to tell the other person, they had him on video"
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Maybe it is just her. But that is still inappropriate bias, no?

I think it is gender-based. There are several current male players who are more volatile (Fognini, Kgyrios). I can’t think of any women who do these things, so our sample is small.

But the treatment of those guys versus Serena is pretty glaring.

Also, I think it is unpersuasive to say that different umps exercise discretion differently. All umps at this level have the same training and policies they are to follow, so there should not be large discrepancies.

I mean, if a police officer exercises her discretion and treats one person unfairly, it is not an appropriate response to say that other police officers aren’t treating people unfairly.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful post.
Is it innapropriate? Perhaps, but Serena has a long history of being volatile with officials so maybe some of them won't let her throw her weight around and intimidate them anymore. That's unfortunate but she's kind of brought it on herself.

If there aren't other women who act like this, I don't think it's fair to call it sexism - you need to have multiple cases, not just with 1 female player.

Also Fognini was suspended from the USO last year for verbally abusing a female official (he lost the match but was suspended from taking part in doubles, received a massive fine and got a suspended 2 slam ban)

In another match, I think at Wimbledon, he got a code violation for throwing his racquet, then after making a gesture of putting his finger in his mouth, the umpire docked him a point for a "vulgar gesture"
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...abio-Fognini-Andy-Murray-Points-Penalty-Video

He got docked in wimbledon 2014 too
http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/wimble...fabio-fognini-fined-27500-wimbledon-outbursts


In 2016 he got a point docked for removing a linesman's sunglasses
http://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/...g-docked-point-removing-line-judge-sunglasses

I'm sure there are others, it's not like he's being let off because he's a man. Also worth bearing in mind this was a slam final and maybe Ramos was a bit stricter considering what was at stake
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Agreed^
This was not as bad as telling a chair umpire she is an ugly person on the inside. Remember that one?
Tonight, she was pointing at ramos, and demanding an apology.
He could have risen above it. He did for a bit, coolly.
But then, later, he chose not to take it.

Not sure if this press is good for the game? Or just embarrassing.
I am a parent! And i have been playing, coaching, watching, and enjoying tennis for over four decades!
I demand an apology! Where is my apology?!
I think it is bad for the game, very bad.

Recall that figure skating Used to be one of the most popular sports in the world. Big money. Then there was a judging scandal at the Olympics , and the sport never recovered.

If tennis does not clean up his act with regard to consistent officiating regardless of gender or ranking or celebrity, the public will lose faith that the outcome is legitimate. Sports fans want championships to be settled on the field, not in the Umpire chair or anywhere else.

Recall also that most people who were watching that final today we’re not deeply into tennis the way we all are. All they know is they saw an official taking action to intervene when better discretion would have been to let things go and Deescalate.

Heck, I feel a little cheated myself. I would have liked to see what happened when Osaka served at 43. Better yet, perhaps Osaka could have won in three sets. That would have been exciting and more meaningful for everyone.

Serena deserve to lose for being stupid. But I don’t think or Osaka or the fans or the viewers deserve to be cheated out of a match Settled fair and square on the court.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
I think it is gender-based. There are several current male players who are more volatile (Fognini, Kgyrios). I can’t think of any women who do these things, so our sample is small.
You keep bringing this up, whereas this is just blatantly false. Fognini and Kyrgios are penalized and get code violations all the damn time, yet they rarely keep going overboard and manage to clock up three code violations and therefore a game penalty. :rolleyes: It has happened before though, Nick and Fognini getting game penalties, so even then you are plain wrong.... What I'm seeing, is that you just don't watch enough Men's tennis.

Serena was also talking trash on a couple of consecutive change overs and just as well Ramos finally gave her what was coming. On court coaching, racquet abuse and verbal abuse. It all adds up.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
I am sitting in my underwear.....and I am right. She could not let it go. There is a reason for that. Umpires are there to enforce rules. Do I think he could have told her that if she did not stop he was going to hit her with a 3rd code and take a game? Yes. Would it have made any difference? I doubt it. Why did she demand an apology? She had to “win” the debate. None of this would have happened if she had been winning the match. When she started talking about women bs men in the press conference I threw up in my mouth. Talk about a re herring. I don’t know what is worse, the fact that she tried to turn this into a feminist issue or the fact that the commentators on ESPN let her off the hook. I have been watching her since she was 15. I am not shocked at all. My favorite comment she made is that it always happens to here there. Like in 2009 she was a victim. Good grief. How many other women players have actually threatened to shove a ball down a line women’s throat.
This was better than "shut your hole".
 

tenisdecente

Hall of Fame
Oh no, it wasn't acceptable at all, and I would have suspended her for that, along with the fine. Honestly, and I'll admit I can't prove it, but I think the only reason she didn't get suspended is because there wasn't a clear audio of it. If there was, shame on the tennis organizations for letting it go
Dude, you look reasonable - it was blatant as 2+2 is 4. They just let it go, shamefully
 
I think it is bad for the game, very bad.

Recall that figure skating Used to be one of the most popular sports in the world. Big money. Then there was a judging scandal at the Olympics , and the sport never recovered.

If tennis does not clean up his act with regard to consistent officiating regardless of gender or ranking or celebrity, the public will lose faith that the outcome is legitimate. Sports fans want championships to be settled on the field, not in the Umpire chair or anywhere else.

Recall also that most people who were watching that final today we’re not deeply into tennis the way we all are. All they know is they saw an official taking action to intervene when better discretion would have been to let things go and Deescalate.

Heck, I feel a little cheated myself. I would have liked to see what happened when Osaka served at 43. Better yet, perhaps Osaka could have won in three sets. That would have been exciting and more meaningful for everyone.

Serena deserve to lose for being stupid. But I don’t think or Osaka or the fans or the viewers deserve to be cheated out of a match Settled fair and square on the court.
I feel totes cheated. Where is my apology? I demand an apology!! I will cry and scream. I will point. I will get my apology!
 
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jukka1970

Professional
yeah, where was the apology for that poor asian lineswoman.??! that was an outrage! what a racist and sexEEST! people tend to forget that psycho episode.
I didn't forget it, and you weren't following what I responded to. The person said to me do you need another 2009, and that's why I said what I did. Trust me I didn't forget that, I saw the match on tv. I always tried to watch Clijsters (one of my favorite players)
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
Good response.
Not everyone appreciates when you try to be nice, unfortunately. So a few users here I'm not really about to be nice to because they don't reciprocate anyway. :0 Guess I'm back to ignoring them for the time being.
I know what you mean. Sometimes I physically ignore and sometimes I just zone people out.
 

tata

Hall of Fame
Serena should realise by now that a meltdown with the chair at the US open final always ends up bad. Remember the one with Clijsters and stour? Now Osaka. If she gets to the final in NY again she needs to keep herself in check.
 

insideguy

Legend
I am sitting in my underwear.....and I am right. She could not let it go. There is a reason for that. Umpires are there to enforce rules. Do I think he could have told her that if she did not stop he was going to hit her with a 3rd code and take a game? Yes. Would it have made any difference? I doubt it. Why did she demand an apology? She had to “win” the debate. None of this would have happened if she had been winning the match. When she started talking about women bs men in the press conference I threw up in my mouth. Talk about a re herring. I don’t know what is worse, the fact that she tried to turn this into a feminist issue or the fact that the commentators on ESPN let her off the hook. I have been watching her since she was 15. I am not shocked at all. My favorite comment she made is that it always happens to here there. Like in 2009 she was a victim. Good grief. How many other women players have actually threatened to shove a ball down a line women’s throat.
In her defense if there is one. Mostly we don't really pay attention to what 99 percent of the other women are doing goofy on tour. And if we do its forgotten pretty quick.
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
I was 11 at the time so take this with a grain of salt (and Edberg is my favorite player ever): McEnroe had played very well in rounds 1 through 3, but he hadn't really been tested. He started fine against Pernfors but his temper fraying was partly because he was getting pushed harder than expected, with Pernfors winning set two and almost taking set three. And he went a break up in set four just before the default. The courts were also relatively slow and high bouncing. I'm not confident McEnroe would have got through the semi-final against Lendl, who played pretty well all tournament and especially well in the semi-final against Noah, winning 6-4 6-1 6-2 against someone who'd beaten him in the warmup in Sydney. Given that Edberg picked up an injury in the semis, no doubt McEnroe could have beaten him had they played in the final, but I'd be really surprised if a fit Edberg would have lost to him. I don't think a fit Edberg would have lost to Lendl, either. Even with the injury, he served for the second set at 6-4 6-5. Edberg was playing about as well as he ever played, so it's too bad for him he picked up the stomach injury.
Thanks for that! Sounded like it would have been tough for him after Pernfors.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
This is much like the foot fault and the shot clock. Why are some people so surprised when they learn that rules are to be respected and enforced??
 
Team Muuurica f*ck yeaahhh

I mean NYC is savage... You don’t come to our courts an expect to not be roasted a bit for a drama filled finals...

Caesar in Rome...
You don’t mess with Caesar at home...

This will
Make Osaka a stronger person.. this has got to
Be the worst case event for her, she past it! Moving forward
 
I do think osaka will emerge stronger. I pray she will not dwell on it.
If folks want to put an asterisk by Osaka today, fine. But they do not know tennis. This gurl earned this win. She run this mutha. At least today.
 

jukka1970

Professional
Dude, you look reasonable - it was blatant as 2+2 is 4. They just let it go, shamefully
Then definitely shame on them, because then it was a suspension case. The problem is I didn't hear it, and there's no audio, so its unfair for me to say they must ban her. Do I think she did, absolutely, but I wouldn't be able to suspend her just based on what I thought
 

NuBas

Legend
"We" have nothing to do with it. It should have been the happiest moment of Osaka's young tennis career, but instead she was fighting back sad tears.
Well I do agree with you but if anything she has gained a lot of love from others by this.
 

kaiotic

Rookie
I didn't forget it, and you weren't following what I responded to. The person said to me do you need another 2009, and that's why I said what I did. Trust me I didn't forget that, I saw the match on tv. I always tried to watch Clijsters (one of my favorite players)
there is a pattern here with Serena. she has the problem, not other people or the US OPEN that makes things "happen" to her every year. really?!
She is psycho. I watch a lot of tennis and never before (WTA or ATP) have i seen such classless, atrocious act, by a pro tennis player. she is one arrogant piece of head case. she thinks she is above them all. a BRAT. plain and simple. Venus 23 : Serena -3
 

insideguy

Legend
This was like giving a red card in the box during injury time at a World Cup final to the losing team in the final mins... let them play it out.... obviously he wanted his 2 cents heard...

I’m just saying
He could had let them play on And if Serena lose it was fair and square...

Now honestly what if will
Be surrounding this moment for Osaka for life...

The ref should had let it slide and let it get dirty...

Sad part is even when Serena lost, she is winning in media.... good or bad publicity... 90% of social media barely mention Osaka’s win, but the Serena event
I agree she was toast. Let her burn. He should have. Anyone who doesn't think the first violation for her goofy coach didn't light the fuse is being goofy. He didn't do anything technically wrong. But this is sports. This is a final in a grand slam. Light the match and craps gonna explode.
 
there is a pattern here with Serena. she has the problem, not other people or the US OPEN that makes things "happen" to her every year. really?!
She is psycho. I watch a lot of tennis and never before (WTA or ATP) have i seen such classless, atrocious act, by a pro tennis player. she is one arrogant piece of head case. she thinks she is above them all. a BRAT. plain and simple. Venus 23 : Serena -3
She craycray. The offwhite text just above her swoosh says, "LOCO", right?
 
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