How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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merwy

G.O.A.T.
Serena said much more than liar and thief and has a very disturbing levels of ego and arrogance

She could have called the umpire a joke or something but asking him to announce that she didn’t cheat , asking him to say sorry and apologize - these really deserved the punishment

I would have liked her serve game to be penalized , she was lucky it turned out to be Naomi’s
I really don’t see how your reply is related to my post..
 

albertobra

Hall of Fame
Well, in press conference Serena said that from now on, any women tennis player can call the empire a thief, and will recieve no warning because of what happened to her.
Is this what women rights is about?
Man that was pathetic to play the sexist card.
 

dannythomas

Semi-Pro
No, no, and no.
I am sorry to contradict you but i have some facts you need to know.
Katrina Adams, the usta boss, said very clearly that serena is the champion of champions, and that she is respected by ALL.
I am sorry to burst yer bubble.
Well if Katrina says that then of course it must be true ..... She is hardly going to say in front of a packed stadium that she let herself down and her behavior didn’t befit someone with her great skill and her great record is she ?
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
As has become the case with most controversies, we have made it a choice between two extremes. Some say Serena did absolutely nothing wrong and is a hero for standing up to the chair umpire and calling him a thief.

The other side says takes joy in pointing out that the umpire acted within the rules and say that Serena deserved the consequences. There was absolutely nothing dubious about the chair's decision.

Clearly, the truth is in the middle of these extremes. Each warning against Serena was technically legitimate, and she should not have called the umpire a thief. On the other hand, it would have been best if the umpire had used a little discretion and not issued a game penalty. Thief is not such a vulgar term that he couldn't have chosen to withhold the penalty.

Serena was not blameless or heroic for yelling at the umpire, but that doesn't mean he made the best possible decision, either.
Calling the umpire a thief was totally inappropriate. Serena had the right to threaten to kill him.
 

Robert F

Professional
The rules were followed, the question of racism/sexism is raised because similar violations typically do not result in any penalties for many other players.
The reality is if there was any racism/sexism, it was not a policy, conspiracy or intentional, but indirect by ones subconscious biases.

No way to prove it and in fairness to Ramos he enforced the rules, so maybe he's just a better ump.

Were there any other coaching violations in the tournament? How did those Umps respond?
Any other tirades that didn't get punished?

Overall it sucks that this overshadows Osaka's good play and exceptional tournament.
 

73west

Semi-Pro
As has become the case with most controversies, we have made it a choice between two extremes. Some say Serena did absolutely nothing wrong and is a hero for standing up to the chair umpire and calling him a thief.

The other side says takes joy in pointing out that the umpire acted within the rules and say that Serena deserved the consequences. There was absolutely nothing dubious about the chair's decision.

Clearly, the truth is in the middle of these extremes. Each warning against Serena was technically legitimate, and she should not have called the umpire a thief. On the other hand, it would have been best if the umpire had used a little discretion and not issued a game penalty. Thief is not such a vulgar term that he couldn't have chosen to withhold the penalty.

Serena was not blameless or heroic for yelling at the umpire, but that doesn't mean he made the best possible decision, either.

Thief, I think, is like Medvedev throwing the coins at the umpire. You can question annumpire’s competence and get away with a lot. If you start into something that sounds like questioning his ethics, you are over a line.
 

Rattler

Hall of Fame
No the umpire did not do his job properly! Coaching has been going on all tournament long and not once has it been called but it got called against Serena. You really think he would have done the same if it would have been Fed, Nadal or Murray?
These reasonings kinda sound like the arguments people make when they get pulled over for speeding...yes most everyone does it, yes it doesn’t always get caught... and yet when someone gets pulled over they start pointing fingers and accusations at every other driver on the road. Laughable.

Singling our Serena? Equally laughable...in 2009 she was called for a foot-fault...flips out, threatens a line umpire!?! gets a code that resulted in a point, when she happened to be match-point down...
Serena plays the victim role to the press

When she lost to Henin at the French, when Henin held up her racquet..(yeah she did, and she didn’t own up to it...like that doesn’t happen a lot in rec tennis?).
Serena plays the victim to the press

She is booed at Indian Wells...skips the tournament for 10+ plus years (I can’t remember)
Serena plays the victim to the press

Is anyone else spotting a trend here?

She is called for a Hinderance against Stoser...
She flips out on the Chair

Again Serena plays the victim to the press

Now Serena is playing the victim again as the champion of Women’s rights in tennis....vaguely masking accusations of sexism...(and ...gag ...the Champion of mothers (laughable)...

Please, it’s a snow job, and snow melts...

Been an interesting thaw.....
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Ya its not fine. There is no opponent thinks its cool thing. Never heard of that rule ever.
Do I have to spell it out for you? USTA sent out a statement. His equipment was out of adjustment (falls under the "Equipment out of Adjustment" provision, in the view of the chair and USTA), and it was affecting his ability to play. The chair umpire gave him the OK to leave and get the shirt changed. The chair and Millman asked Djokovic if he thought that was reasonable, and he said he did, so Millman was given a 6-minute break to walk off court and do so.

I don't care what you heard about. I'm telling you now.
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Maybe. But I also remember being told that America was a "melting pot". Meaning that wherever you came from you adopted American ways. Multicultural? Somewhat, but in the 1920s there were quotas over how many people could be accepted from different nations.

Maybe that was wrong and how it is now is better, but historically, these things have not been Americas "ideals and values".
That is not what "melting pot" means ( and what would be the "American way"? Is that supposed to be a monolithic bloc?) Melting pot means everyone can get a second chance in America and be guaranteed freedom of religion and protection of basic rights no matter their culture and origin. The US is a nation of immigrants (all of us immigrants except for Native Americans) and the promise is that immigrants can make their home on American soil and try and succeed no matter the reason why they came. THAT's what the American Dream is about and no, it never included some bogus restriction of "but one needs to embrace the "American way"", whatever that would mean.
That "America first" or " name-country first" business is the new alt-right mantra around the world (based on the concepts of discrimination and cultural exception) and it is in direct contradiction with what the "New World" has always claimed to stand for.
 

Rattler

Hall of Fame
Ramos was a joke. For those who are quick to support Ramos by saying Serena's coach admitted he coached, her coach also said that this goes on in every tournament. Everyone watching that game, including the announcers, could see that Serena wasn't looking at her coach when he was sending the hand signals. Even on the 3rd game conduct violation, he got too sensitive and takes a game away in a close Grand Slam finals for calling him a thief? C'mon.

Serena is a drama queen. No doubt. Ramos seemed like one himself too today.

Calling an umpire a thief is verbal abuse of that umpire...just like if you called your opponent a cheater from across the net.
 

insideguy

Legend
Ya its not fine. There is no opponent thinks its cool thing. Never heard of that rule ever.
Do I have to spell it out for you? USTA sent out a statement. His equipment was out of adjustment (falls under the "Equipment out of Adjustment" provision, in the view of the chair and USTA), and it was affecting his ability to play. The chair umpire gave him the OK to leave and get the shirt changed. The chair and Millman asked Djokovic if he thought that was reasonable, and he said he did, so Millman was given a 6-minute break to walk off court and do so.

I don't care what you heard about. I'm telling you now.
Its ridiculous his equipment was out of adjustment. So if someone had itchy balls they can ask for a break? I have never seen this and I watch a lot of tennis.
 

Federev

Legend
Patrick was attempting to coach Serena, probably deserved a warning. Patrick was wrong.

Serena over-reacted and breaking her racket was beneath her as was her temper tantrum after she received the penalty. Serena was wrong.

The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.

Serena calling this sexism, is harmful to women. It minimizes what "sexism" actually is. There were two women on that court and for Serena to claim "sexism" is illogical and stupid. Serena was wrong.

The US Open fans that booed Osaka are idiots. Osaka played a brilliant game, she is a big part of the future of Women's tennis and she deserved cheers and a standing ovation. US Open fans were wrong.
good work!

did they boo Osaka? That's awful.

Also - you didn't tell us how Osaka was wrong. (Just cause you're title does say "EVERYONE" ... so to be fair...)

How about Osaka was wrong to apologize for winning?

Bad Osaka! Bad!!!

Also - you are wrong for not being more careful with your titel.

I am wring for my spellinf!

EVERYONE IS WRONG!!!!!
 

NuBas

Legend
If any of you watched the Sascha Bajin press conference on the US Open website several days ago, he threw shades at Serena for being "fake" or not genuine. This rings true at 11:50 when after she hugs Osaka, she physically bumps into Osaka.

 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
There are no words for how much I hate the US Open crowd
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Its ridiculous his equipment was out of adjustment. So if someone had itchy balls they can ask for a break? I have never seen this and I watch a lot of tennis.
It's the chair ump's call. He thought the conditions were dangerous enough to warrant a change of attire. It may be ridiculous, but I say most of what happens should be fine as long as both players agree. If Djokovic didn't agree, then I might agree with you.
 

insideguy

Legend
Calling an umpire a thief is verbal abuse of that umpire...just like if you called your opponent a cheater from across the net.
Ya we are all getting to the end game here and ignoring the beginning. Its like well that guy broke that guys face but lets ignore the fact that he was grabbing his ladies butt all night and laughing at him. The guy punched the other dude in the face. Thats all that matters right? No nuance no, bs call for coaching, no huge moment in a gs final, no nothing.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Calling an umpire a thief is verbal abuse of that umpire...just like if you called your opponent a cheater from across the net.
Umpires have been called much more in lesser games and maintained their cool, because they are generally more mature.

Now if you're saying that those umpires were too lenient, that's fine. Then let's have an uniform rule where every player, no matter how big or small, knows that the first altercation they get into with an umpire, no matter how innocuous the words used, results in an instant game conduct. I'd be fine with that. When rules are selectively and randomly enforced, it doesn't benefit anyone.
 

insideguy

Legend
It's the chair ump's call. He thought the conditions were dangerous enough to warrant a change of attire. It may be ridiculous, but I say most of what happens should be fine as long as both players agree. If Djokovic didn't agree, then I might agree with you.
Novak is pretty much put in a terrible position. Thats what refs are for. You can't leave that stuff up to players. Then you have huge issues.
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
I think he could have taken Noah in the next match (quarter-finals), though!
I think one of the more underrated lines of Hard Courts was Noah admitting he knew that he didn't get a fully motivated Lendl in Sydney. To quote:

"It's always nice to beat the number one player in the world, no matter where or how... But you know when Ivan is into it and when he isn't. I think he tried, but we all know there is trying and trying."
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
You know I have to say this has been so much more civil (with only a couple of minor exceptions) then what I anticipated right after I hit enter on the OP. The words "you fool, you're going to really regret that" kept pounding in my brain.
Lolol you were playing with fire! :eek:
 
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wangs78

Legend
Serena did overreact (but no more so than plenty of guys have), but it's not because she is a diva, its because she takes her integrity so seriously and personally.
.
If she takes her integrity seriously then she should fire Patrick M immediatedly bc he admitted to sending her hand signals. This was the cause for all the drama today. If she chooses instead to keep blaming the umpire, as she has done so far, then she is a hypocritical whiny diva (which is more likely to be the case than her having integrity). She also threatened Ramos with having him never umpiring one of her matches again. That is a serious threat when you are the top star in tennis who plays only on the show courts. If she gets her way, Ramos could lose out on important umpiring opportunities bc of how often Serena plays on the show courts. So I don’t think be overreacted a tall bc Serena lobbed a pretty big threat that led to the third code violation. And ppl need to bear in mind that the severity of that third violation(a game instead of a point) was automatic and based on the rule book. It is not like Ramos decided to penalize her by a game. He simply issueed a third violation and accordi g to the ruke any third violation is a full game penalty.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Make no mistake, she's really candid and awkward, but what a killer.
I'm in awe - because I'm sure that meeting my "idols" would probably incapacitate me to some degree - at the fact that she can simultaneously admire Serena and beat her to a pulp on a tennis court.
Now here's something we hadn't seen in tennis for quite a while.
And to do it twice, when we all know how intimidating it is to play a Serena who's seeking "revenge" (and with gigantic stakes), is even more impressive.



 

insideguy

Legend
It's the chair ump's call. He thought the conditions were dangerous enough to warrant a change of attire. It may be ridiculous, but I say most of what happens should be fine as long as both players agree. If Djokovic didn't agree, then I might agree with you.
Good convo. I think my point here is refs have discretion. They don't have easy jobs by any means. But they need to be smart about this stuff. It doesn't look good. I remember a few years back Azarenka was playing Stephens at the Aussie open. She gets dizzy and wanders off into the locker room do you remember this? Everyone is like wtf is going on? She comes out and beats Stephens. I know Sloan was not happy at all. This stuff needs to stop.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
If you win your first slam, watching your opponent spiral out of control would only add to the moment wouldn't it?
For me it would. I'd lap that up that I was giving my esteemed opponent such torment :D
But Osaka seems to be a much nicer and purer person than me lol
 

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
If you dislike a certain player, I'm sure it was fun.

abmk, or another resident historian - when was this last enforced?
I remember Paire getting a game penalty after three games played. First he broke the racket, a warning, then next point hits the ball out of court, point penalty, another ball hit off the court and game penalty. It was so funny that I literally watch Benoit Paire just to see more meltdowns of him.
This match was against Florian Mayer at Halle 2017.
 

Ann

Hall of Fame
This was the wrong one:
The umpire went over-the-top with the game penalty because Serena called him a thief. If you're that thin-skinned you have no right to be an umpire and much worse is said to umpires every day without any repercussions. Umpire was wrong.
Ok, many people on here have said that and they weren't turned into a pillar of salt.
 
Like I said in other posts. Millman walked off the court for 15 minutes cause his clothes were sweaty, his opponent sat there chitlin with his shirt off, nothing happened to either of them. Millman can't just walk off cause his clothes are sweaty lol. Cornet gets a warning for flipping her shirt around:) Houston we have a problem. If you think the women aint paying attention you don't know women
Millman asked for a permission to leave the court and received one. Cornet flipped her shirt not between games, she did it during a game, so it's a delay of game violation.
 
These reasonings kinda sound like the arguments people make when they get pulled over for speeding...yes most everyone does it, yes it doesn’t always get caught... and yet when someone gets pulled over they start pointing fingers and accusations at every other driver on the road. Laughable.

Singling our Serena? Equally laughable...in 2009 she was called for a foot-fault...flips out, threatens a line umpire!?! gets a code that resulted in a point, when she happened to be match-point down...
Serena plays the victim role to the press

When she lost to Henin at the French, when Henin held up her racquet..(yeah she did, and she didn’t own up to it...like that doesn’t happen a lot in rec tennis?).
Serena plays the victim to the press

She is booed at Indian Wells...skips the tournament for 10+ plus years (I can’t remember)
Serena plays the victim to the press

Is anyone else spotting a trend here?

She is called for a Hinderance against Stoser...
She flips out on the Chair

Again Serena plays the victim to the press

Now Serena is playing the victim again as the champion of Women’s rights in tennis....vaguely masking accusations of sexism...(and ...gag ...the Champion of mothers (laughable)...

Please, it’s a snow job, and snow melts...

Been an interesting thaw.....
Victim card, yessir.
Dude, it is really no big deal. You can get like a thousand cards made at vistaprint for like ten bucks.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Good convo. I think my point here is refs have discretion. They don't have easy jobs by any means. But they need to be smart about this stuff. It doesn't look good. I remember a few years back Azarenka was playing Stephens at the Aussie open. She gets dizzy and wanders off into the locker room do you remember this? Everyone is like wtf is going on? She comes out and beats Stephens. I know Sloan was not happy at all. This stuff needs to stop.
Yeah, they definitely need to decide what looks good for the sport, good for the tournament, and doesn't completely destroy the players so they 1) continue to advance and give good matches and 2) want to come back. It's a very give-and-take sort of job, and there are sure to be some difficult calls, particularly in difficult weather like we had here.

Good convo indeed.
 

insideguy

Legend
Millman asked for a permission to leave the court and received one. Cornet flipped her shirt not between games, she did it during a game, so it's a delay of game violation.
Millman should never have got to walk off the court for sweaty clothes. If you can find me one time in tennis history where this happened then please. This is in the middle of a set. Go ahead. FIND ME ONE.
 

NuBas

Legend
Make no mistake, she's really candid and awkward, but what a killer.
I'm in awe - because I'm sure that meeting my "idols" would probably incapacitate me to some degree - at the fact that she can simultaneously admire Serena and beat her to a pulp on a tennis court.
Now here's something we hadn't seen in tennis for quite a while.
And to do it twice, when we all know how intimidating it is to play a Serena who's seeking "revenge" (and with gigantic stakes), is even more impressive.



I think Sabalenka and Madison match prepared her for this. Sabalenka was also dramatic and Osaka had lapse in concentration which led to losing 2nd set. Madison was way powerful but Osaka managed to produce sharp angles against her. Osaka doesn't miss which is amazing, her net clearance must be ample. With those two situations under her belt and with mindset of playing this final like a first round match, she found her top game against a very experienced opponent.
 
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