How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Local and national news is covering this in a big way. She is bigger than McEnroe.
You cannot be serious...buhbye.
Hello, you owe me an apology!

This is going down in history. Well herstory.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
R. UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT ...f
There is enough discretion in the rules to reach any result desired. Umpires are not machines -- yet -- they should use their discretion to try not to impact the result of a Major Final. It isn't good for the sport. Or maybe it is. There will be a lot of press on the match.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
To be fair to Osaka, she mostly keeps to herself. I would not think Osaka would even be involved in that.

The only coaching she needed was already done prior to the match, Sascha Bajin knew everything about SW and that helped Osaka a lot.

.. and I dno if your post is even true.
True. This is getting overlooked here.
I haven't seen anyone mentioning the fact that Bajin defeated Mouratoglou, which is very satisfying to me personally as I've never liked Patrick.
 

Powderwombat

Semi-Pro
High profile players escape . Lower profile guys like Kyrgios, Troicki, Fognini all get fined and defaulted

What we really need to see is whether the umpire is at fault or Serena is

And we know clearly who was at fault here
Kyrgios is one of the highest profile players in the world...imagine grouping him in with Troicki and Fognini lmao.
 

insideguy

Legend
Yeah, they definitely need to decide what looks good for the sport, good for the tournament, and doesn't completely destroy the players so they 1) continue to advance and give good matches and 2) want to come back. It's a very give-and-take sort of job, and there are sure to be some difficult calls, particularly in difficult weather like we had here.

Good convo indeed.
I just think and I aint directly involved but when you are throwing coaching violations around, in a gs final against a coach who has never ever gotten a violation, without a logical convo you are lighting a fuse. You are making a match controversial that is in a high pressure situation. Not a good call.
 

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
“Perhaps it’s not the finish we were looking for today,” Adams said, “but Serena, you are a champion of all champions.” Addressing the crowd, Adams added, “This mama is a role model and respected by all.”
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I wonder how this is defined. If there is a clear communication/exchange between the two it is probably a necessary call.

But coaches ranting from the sidelines is pretty common. And muttering at your box and even looking for instruction on line calls seems to be the norm.

Thanks, but I have to add that the umpire was maybe wrong to call out the coaching violation.
 

jacob22

Professional
I think if Serena received warnings for each of those incidents in different matches, nobody would have an issue. The fact that they occurred all in one match and ultimately resulted in a game penalty is Serena's fault.
 
Both are equally disgraceful. Any player who thinks she/he is above the rules of the game, is guilty of a shameful act. And gender-no-bar, there are very few players who have conducted themselves with dignity at all times in tennis.Even Federer had his moments (USO 2009 over the late challenge). On the other hand,cant think of a moment when someone like Edberg has behaved badly.No wonder the Sportsmanship award is named after him.
 

NuBas

Legend
True. This is getting overlooked here.
I haven't seen anyone mentioning the fact that Bajin defeated Mouratoglou, which is very satisfying to me personally as I've never liked Patrick.
Lots of small things have been overlooked. From a tennis fan/player perspective, this would have been an even better match if it was kept business-like. I enjoyed Osaka's performance as much as Thiem's versus Nadal. Cluth when down 0-40/15-40. Far cry from her loss to Madison being what? up 5-1 in 2015?
 
I think one of the more underrated lines of Hard Courts was Noah admitting he knew that he didn't get a fully motivated Lendl in Sydney. To quote:

"It's always nice to beat the number one player in the world, no matter where or how... But you know when Ivan is into it and when he isn't. I think he tried, but we all know there is trying and trying."
I remember the end of that quote well and have used it, too! Great book! It is also how I first heard of Donald Trump. In the section added on 1991, Feinstein reports Seles thanking him in her victory speech at the US Open and the crowd booing. Feinstein reports that it is harsh to boo a 17 year old but asks, “What is a 17-year-old doing being friends with Donald Trump?” No google then so it took me ages to find out who he was.
 

Elektra

Professional
She is a puppet, she is not a leader or upper management tournament director. This woman says her lines and goes on with her business.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Men have pointed at the umpire, called for their removal, and called them an abortion and did not get a warning. See Connors Krickstein US open match.
Got anything more recent than 27 years ago? (Actually baiting/hoping someone will post Fab going nuts). ;)
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
That was a better article than I've been reading. They're trying to be objective and see the bigger picture. They definitely capture the chaos this entire debacle caused.
There's a lot that can be learnt to improve the situation but I guess rules will continue to remain rules and divas will continue to be divas. Tomorrow the exact thing can happen again and it's going to be deja-vu
 
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ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
She said, "It wasn't the result we wanted." Disgraceful, horrible, cruel comment.
Not speaking in my name, that's for sure.
Tennis is becoming so nationalistic, it's very bizarre.
Nationalism in tennis used to be exclusive to Davis Cup/Fed Cup spirit and atmosphere, which made these competitions special in their own unique way.
Who cared whether Borg was Swedish or McEnroe was American unless they were playing Davis Cup?
Now we even have national anthems being played at Roland-Garros, it's pathetic.
You chose your favourite player not strictly because of nationality, but because of the game they played and the attitude they showed on court.

Now we have commentators and tournament organisers who for some reason forget that this event is being watched worldwide, not just in that stadium or in the country where it's taking place, and they assume that everyone is behind their nationalistic narrative.
It's too overblown.
 
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Millman should never have got to walk off the court for sweaty clothes
Maybe. Maybe not. Didn't he say he had trouble with tennis balls getting into/out of his pockets because of the sweat? Anyway, I don't see any evidence of it being a gender-based discrimination. If you can show that men are consistently allowed to do that and women are not, than it would be a discrimination.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
Serena did well on the podium, but for the USTA to glorify that after what she did on court during the match is just pathetic.
She hit rock bottom. Could only go up. I thought she should have used that opportunity to apologize for her rude, crude and obnoxious behavior...given more credit to Osaka, and stop talking about herself. Guess she was still waiting for the chair umpire to apologize.
 

reaper

Legend
For me it would. I'd lap that up that I was giving my esteemed opponent such torment :D
But Osaka seems to be a much nicer and purer person than me lol
Yes, I'd hate to have to earn it! I'd love to see them abusing people, smashing their racquet to smithereens, clubbing balls into the back fence through tear filled eyes. Oh the joy of it!
 

insideguy

Legend
Maybe. Maybe not. Didn't he say he had trouble with tennis balls getting into/out of his pockets because of the sweat? Anyway, I don't see any evidence of it being a gender-based discrimination. If you can show that men are consistently allowed to do that and women are not, than it would be a discrimination.
I can't show you anything for women being allowed to walk off the court cause they are sweating. But I can say that he was. And I can say that cornet gets a freaking warning for flipping a shirt around. Lets be logical here.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Mary Jo, Chrissie and Pam are talking now like Serena was wronged. Someone needs to say 1. Pat Mo coach and Serena saw it, 2. she smashed her racket, and 3. she went ballistic on the umpire, berating hime and calling him a thief. All 3 violations were legit. Could you image if this were the NFL. An NFL umpire would make all 3 calls and if the player gave them more lip, they would be ejected from the game. Serena lost it and all the wrong she suffered was because of her own behavior.
Could you imagine if Serena treated a police officer that way?
 

tata

Hall of Fame
To me, the bottom line is this. Serena knew she had two warnings. She knew the consequences if she got one more. She apparently felt it more important to vent, argue, insult, berate and make personal remarks to the chair than to win the match. She went over the line plain and simple. She recounted that it had happened before (when she threatened to choke a lineswoman with an effen ball) and in that match she berated the chair. Apparently her default then made no difference to her. She cannot be more than the game. I am glad to see an umpire enforce the rules. I was very sorry to see Osaka bear the brunt of Williams behavior.
What annoys me so badly is the way she deflects the attention away from her behaviour and turns it into a sexist accusation like shes a victim to justify it. Like cmon, there are men AND women players that give the chair a mouthful. It is not just the men. She's taking a snippet of reality to suit her case.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
^Nope! She is an emotional being. Not letting a goddess express herself is killing tennis, at least according to mouraCOACHlu. He will find a way to monetize this event, lol!

Nope. When You are. A. Goddess. You do not need to know the rules.
You need an apology from anyone who dares to confront you with some rules. You are entitled to that!

Ramos will never climb a chair again. He will have a tennis ball in his next bowel movement.
You mean like King Nadal who has never been penalised for one million time violations.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
i can't believe that y'all think serena is worse than telling someone to to **** his mother, like seriously? serena certainly could have handled herself better and that was on her, but y'all are crazy for thnking its worse than what jmac did.
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
And that for me is where the real issue lies is in the third call. I think that the referee and supervisor review everything and decide if this was clearly verbal abuse, which I honestly feel it was not, not in the grand scheme of things.

The issue is that there are to many inconsistencies when it comes to calls. I'm not going to say that Serena would have won. I think Osaka would have still beat her. But I think we can at least agree that it did affect the match
WTF does this mean? He was threatened he will not umpire matches of one of the most prominent professional players on the WTA. This means loss of earnings for him and his household, just to be sure you and your ilk (people who live in a virtual world) understand. That is a very real and menacing threat, and no, the fact that it is a final does not change the rules.

The umpire does a very difficult job, getting paid a pittance to police infantile divas. He should get more protection from the governing bodies.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
It's the same with Nadal, another narcissist with a victim mentality and disregard for opponents. In his case, he uses time violations, MTOs and the like to slow momentum and craft the tempo of the matches to his needs. When he's losing, it's his failing body — not his mind (his body fails much more than Novak and Roger, no?!) Both Nadal and Serena make it about them, and so do the commentators. They are obsessed with these players' fighter mentality and humility — because after all of their off-court antics they may deign to give their opponent some credit — "stop booing Naomi, this is her moment," "let's not talk about my knees, let's talk about my opponent, I never like to talk about my knee." They disregard the rules, then when they lose it's POOR ME!
Brilliant, Sir.

Very accurate.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, I'd hate to have to earn it! I'd love to see them abusing people, smashing their racquet to smithereens, clubbing balls into the back fence through tear filled eyes. Oh the joy of it!
Knowing they're mad because they can't beat me would be a huge confidence boost for sure
 

Spider

Hall of Fame
Am unable to understand the context of this statement by USTA president during the presentation ceremony. It is one thing for the home crowd to be baised. But this just takes things to another level.

Poor Naomi had to apologize for winning. It was such an uncomfortable moment.
 
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