How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Maybe if her coach didn't coach her which everyone knows is against the rules GOATMOS wouldn't have given a warning. I love how the Serena defence is nothing more than "The umpire should not enforce the rules because it's a final". WTF kind of BS logic is that? If he let one player receive coaching while the other was following the rules, that is a clear advantage. Why the hell would he do that?

Use your brain...
 
Maybe someone could explain the context of this statement assuming this statement was actually made. I was at the food court at the time. :oops:

I don't know what the statement means by itself. She can't possibly have meant USTA preferred Serena to win. She must have meant the way the match played out with a poor choice of the word "result" ?
 
Lets be logical here
I agree. We have to be logical if we want to mend these crazy divisions in the country. Millman asked for a permission and received one. I think it's in the rules and it's equally applied to both men and women. As for Cornet, she was warned because it was a game delay violation. She can change it as many times as she wants between games.
 
Am unable to understand the context of this statement by USTA president during the presentation ceremony. It is one thing for the home crowd to be baised. But this just takes things to another level.

Poor Naomi had to apologize for winning. It was such an uncomfortable moment.
USTA president should be immediately fired.
And her position handled to Serena.
 
Whatever you think of Serena and Naomi (and I adore Naomi), there is no doubt in my mind that the chair acted improperly.

I think there was gender bias at work. The first coaching violation? Deserved. The second violation? Deserved.

But I cannot begin to count the number of times men have sat in their chairs on changeovers and had heated discussions with umpires, and nothing whatever happens. But when it is Serena, it is a game penalty in the final. Insane. Her words were actually civil -- saying she deserved an apology, no profanity, no threats.

Need more proof?

In this same tournament, we had a chair umpire come out of his chair to basically coach Kirios in front of God and everyone. The proper response would have been to enforce the code of conduct, but no. Ump goes easy on the man, and USTA backs up the umpire.

By that standard, Ramos should have come out of his chair and talked to Serena, calm her nerves, tell her he wants to help her. Nope -- game penalty (when the tirade was over and he could have let it go) to put Serena's opponent a game away from the championship.

Congratulations to Naomi, but what happened today was rooted in disparate treatment and sexism.
I think you are right in spirit but wrong in this particular case.

Yes, there are separate standards for men and women, and it is unfair. It is everywhere, and it may or may not ever get better.

Women's suffrage in the US finally took place in 1920. So women were not considered good enough to vote until 98 years ago. To this moment my wife is paid less than men doing her same job, and she does it better. She takes a load of crap that makes my head explode just because she doesn't have a deep voice and a penis.

So IN THEORY I am 100% behind your points. Women should not be given excessive penalties for being the same obnoxious, unreasonable, foul-mouthed combatants that many men are. Maybe a man would have gotten away with what I think was baiting the umpire.

That's not the point.

The point is that one woman selfishly ruined what should have been the greatest day in the life of another. Because of Serena's excessive for concern for herself, and only for herself, she ruined the final. At age 36 and almost 37 shed did not have the maturity to handle herself. It was all about her.

Ramos could of and should have handled the whole thing better. If he had seen coaching, he could have called her on it much earlier. If he saw one and only one hand signal, when we all know it goes on constantly, he didn't have throw the book at her at that moment. But that is also an issue of the stars getting too big for the rules, the same thing that has gone on with Nadal re time until finally a shot clock has made him at least obey the same rules as everyone else.

Violations or fines for racket abuse are incredibly unevenly applied. And any "rule" about arguing is also unevenly applied. The top men often get away with murder.

These things are all wrong, or they are all problems. A huge part of what went wrong has to do with unequal and unfair application of rules that are so fuzzy that no one knows quite what they are.

But the elephant in the room is that Serena behaved more like a spoiled 5 year-old than an adult, and through her utter lack of maturity a final was ruined.

That's on her.
 
Maybe someone could explain the context of this statement assuming this statement was actually made. I was at the food court at the time. :oops:

I don't know what the statement means by itself. She can't possibly have meant USTA preferred Serena to win. She must have meant the way the match played out with a poor choice of the word "result" ?
Here's the video:-

This makes it extremely sad and disappointing.
 
I've only heard the first few words of Serena's speech to the umpire..."You have to make an announcement to the crowd that I wasn't getting coaching."...lol.
Serena embarrassed herself horribly. Sad thing is she still thinks she did nothing wrong. Serena has to compare herself to the men's crude improper behaviors, because none of the top women come remotely close. Anyone ever see Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Seles or Venus act such a fool?
 
The saddest thing is really how much this controversy is overshadowing what a great match Osaka played. The fact that she held serve to close it out was pretty clutch, under those circumstances.
 
The Queen has (no clothes) is revealed. That are big enough to fit her that is. What a goofiest. All hail: the loudmouth, I am entitled, have always been entitled, it's fair for me to be rude, I am in charge, how dare you put me in my place and expose my vile ugly overly aggressive temper, little queen serena. All hail!!!

Aloha
 
I think you are right in spirit but wrong in this particular case.

Yes, there are separate standards for men and women, and it is unfair. It is everywhere, and it may or may not ever get better.

Women's suffrage in the US finally took place in 1920. So women were not considered good enough to vote until 98 years ago. To this moment my wife is paid less than men doing her same job, and she does it better. She takes a load of crap that makes my head explode just because she doesn't have a deep voice and a penis.

So IN THEORY I am 100% behind your points. Women should not be given excessive penalties for being the same obnoxious, unreasonable, foul-mouthed combatants that many men are. Maybe a man would have gotten away with what I think was baiting the umpire.

That's not the point.

The point is that one woman selfishly ruined what should have been the greatest day in the life of another. Because of Serena's excessive for concern for herself, and only for herself, she ruined the final. At age 36 and almost 37 shed did not have the maturity to handle herself. It was all about her.

Ramos could of and should have handled the whole thing better. If he had seen coaching, he could have called her on it much earlier. If he saw one and only one hand signal, when we all know it goes on constantly, he didn't have throw the book at her at that moment. But that is also an issue of the stars getting too big for the rules, the same thing that has gone on with Nadal re time until finally a shot clock has made him at least obey the same rules as everyone else.

Violations or fines for racket abuse are incredibly unevenly applied. And any "rule" about arguing is also unevenly applied. The top men often get away with murder.

These things are all wrong, or they are all problems. A huge part of what went wrong has to do with unequal and unfair application of rules that are so fuzzy that no one knows quite what they are.

But the elephant in the room is that Serena behaved more like a spoiled 5 year-old than an adult, and through her utter lack of maturity a final was ruined.

That's on her.
Nope. It is on Ramos. Because She run this mutha.
From what i am hearing, "SOURCES" say She demands an apology!
 
WTF does this mean? He was threatened he will not umpire matches of one of the most prominent professional players on the WTA. This means loss of earnings for him and his household, just to be sure you and your ilk (people who live in a virtual world) understand. That is a very real and menacing threat, and no, the fact that it is a final does not change the rules.

The umpire does a very difficult job, getting paid a pittance to police infantile divas. He should get more protection from the governing bodies.
I wouldn't worry. He's not going to be punished lmao
If he was it would be a high disgrace
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Ramos failed the occasion by being too quick too hand out a coaching penalty and too thin-skinned to take a bit of stick.
It wasn't just a bit of stick, though. It was shaping up to the WTA version of The Song That Never Ends (RIP Shari Lewis), considering it was coming during changeovers - note the 's', more than one - when Serena repeatedly demanded an apology, told Ramos that he would never umpire another match of hers again, pointed out repeatedly that she was a mother, called him a thief, etc... You think that was going to stop anytime soon? Because I sure don't. She was getting more and more revved up with each pass.

At some point, enough had to be enough. Unfortunately for Serena, that point came when she already had two code violations.
 
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This:

If these non-tennis-fans looked harder they would find a much better role model in Venus, a strong black woman who doesn't need to intimidate umpires, linespeople and opponents. Despite not having Serena's technical skills and having a strength-sapping disease, she continues to play on in a long twilight nearing 40 years of age, her major titles far behind her. But she does it with class and dignity, unlike her sister.

Fittingly, Venus is the goddess.
There it is. God gave the most insane level of talent to the wrong sister. ;)
 
Serena embarrassed herself horribly. Sad thing is she still thinks she did nothing wrong. Serena has to compare herself to the men's crude improper behaviors, because none of the top women come remotely close. Anyone ever see Evert, Navratilova, Graf, Seles or Venus act such a fool?
I don't think there's any reason why she should be more demur because she's a female. If men can be abrasive so can women. However if you make an accusation of wrongdoing as she did against the umpire she should be required to substantiate it. It's certainly something the media should have pressed her on post match and something the WTA/ITF should follow up. It would afford her the opportunity to withdraw her accusation.
 
...
So, here is whut i have lurnd.
When you are losing, get very upset. Do not treat winning and losing the same. Be abusive. Do what thou wilt, dammit!
When being cautioned or warned, fight for your entitlement.
When rules are enforced, be outraged. You are not paranoid if the conspiracy is real and they really are out to get you. It is personal, so get mad and show it. Be abusive and be outraged if they think you are being abusive.
Then, turn it into a gender bias issue. Be professionally offended. Turn into social justice. Not so Chill Just us.
On the way off the court through the tunnel, be sure to carry the runner-up's platter like it is a frisbee that touched dogdoo.
 
Maybe if her coach didn't coach her which everyone knows is against the rules GOATMOS wouldn't have given a warning. I love how the Serena defence is nothing more than "The umpire should not enforce the rules because it's a final". WTF kind of BS logic is that? If he let one player receive coaching while the other was following the rules, that is a clear advantage. Why the hell would he do that?

Use your brain...
If you do something that's against the rules and you hope to get away with it, you take a risk and you have to accept the consequences if you get caught. It doesn't matter whether others do it or not. It's like taking the train without a ticket. Maybe you won't get controlled but... Heck I've seen cases when players were accused of getting coached and it wasn't obvious if they were. The sheer idiocy in this particular case is that the coaching was clear as day but Serena, instead of sweeping it under the rug, went on and on about being a mother and a saint, demanding an apology and what not. That was amazing acting but with 0 credibility, it made her look like a complete fool.
 
She didn't use the word "result." She said "perhaps it is not the finish we we're looking for today."

She isn't a practiced public speaker and perhaps the words weren't precise enough. However, I interpreted it as OF COURSE referring to the way the match played out at the end with the penalties and not who won.
Fair enough.
 
And you just used "if" by mistake so let's cut her a break given the circumstances and the fact that she probably gives less than a handful of public speeches a year and public speaking is a skill like any other.

She didn't go to Wharton, so she doesn't have the "best words." ;)
Phone? No slack.
 
She didn't use the word "result." She said "perhaps it is not the finish we we're looking for today."

She isn't a practiced public speaker and perhaps the words weren't precise enough. However, I interpreted it as OF COURSE referring to the way the match played out at the end with the penalties and not who won.
Yeah, I don't understand the people looking to make this a controversy or conspiracy theory.

Clearly just a flub, but everyone's still pissed and out for blood right now.
 
The rules were followed, the question of racism/sexism is raised because similar violations typically do not result in any penalties for many other players.
The reality is if there was any racism/sexism, it was not a policy, conspiracy or intentional, but indirect by ones subconscious biases.

No way to prove it and in fairness to Ramos he enforced the rules, so maybe he's just a better ump.

Were there any other coaching violations in the tournament? How did those Umps respond?
Any other tirades that didn't get punished?

Overall it sucks that this overshadows Osaka's good play and exceptional tournament.
very well said!
 
Where have you been? His name is being dragged through the mud..
Social media likes to think it's important but he's not going to lose his job or something. Expecting those nitwits to remember his name in two weeks is asking a lot.
I don't believe he's employed by the USTA but by the ITF, who won't care about a few snowflakes on Twitter.
 
Andy Roddick said it is the worst officiating he has ever seen.

Azarenka said it would never have happened in a men’s match.
Ouch. Yea it aint gonna be pretty. Although I will say this some things stick with me. Remember when AZ wandered off the court a few years back in a hot Aussie match with Stephens? She just left then came back like 10 minutes later. I don't know if she got disciplined for that. I just remember Stephens was pissed. And she was losing and she came back and beat Sloan. It was nuts. Sometimes these players do things the refs don't have a clue wtf to do.
 
Plenty to not like about Serena's behavior but the finger waving at Ramos along with her threat that he'll never work another of her matches pretty much sums up she thinks she's bigger than the sport. She isn't. The WTA got along fine in her absence and they obviously will get along fine after she retires. They have a bright young star who seems very well composed for special moments. Lines people need not fear physical retribution and chair umpires will be left to enforce the rules properly.
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Andy Roddick said it is the worst officiating he has ever seen.

Azarenka said it would never have happened in a men’s match.
Roddick did say that. About a half hour after, he also tweeted "Emotional first take by me. common sense should’ve prevailed in my opinion. He’s within his power to make that call. I’ve seen an umpire borderline coach a player up,and another dock a game for being called a thief in same tourney. There needs to be some continuity in the future" along with admitting "Absolutely true. Completely biased commentary by me. We’ve been friends since we were young kids. So be it". Fair, IMO.

As for Azarenka - well, I guess we'll see whenever a man gets three code violations in a major final. Till then, who knows?
 
Roddick did say that. About four minutes after, he also tweeted "Emotional first take by me. common sense should’ve prevailed in my opinion. He’s within his power to make that call. I’ve seen an umpire borderline coach a player up,and another dock a game for being called a thief in same tourney. There needs to be some continuity in the future". Absolutely fair.

As for Azarenka - well, I guess we'll see whenever a man gets three code violations in a major final. Till then, who knows?
You need a man to have a similar finger-pointing psychotic breakdown first.
 
Carlos is not wrong. Whatever Carlos Ramos says sounds correct, right, just and beautiful to me, because he's so handsome, so sexy and has a beautiful soft voice.



Does anyone here have Carlos' phone number please?
 
Roddick did say that. About a half hour after, he also tweeted "Emotional first take by me. common sense should’ve prevailed in my opinion. He’s within his power to make that call. I’ve seen an umpire borderline coach a player up,and another dock a game for being called a thief in same tourney. There needs to be some continuity in the future" along with admitting "Absolutely true. Completely biased commentary by me. We’ve been friends since we were young kids. So be it". Fair, IMO.

As for Azarenka - well, I guess we'll see whenever a man gets three code violations in a major final. Till then, who knows?
Um, that’s her point. We’ll never see a man draw 3 code violations in a gs final. Only happens to a woman.
 
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