How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
Status
Not open for further replies.

Bukmeikara

Legend
i can't believe that y'all think serena is worse than telling someone to to **** his mother, like seriously? serena certainly could have handled herself better and that was on her, but y'all are crazy for thnking its worse than what jmac did.
This is a gender thing. When men feel insecure/threatened they swear while women play possum and victim cards. I agree its much harder to for the umpire to be hearing things about his mother but in terms of just the abuser both Mac and Serena went long distances
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Ramos also is one of the sport's few "gold badge" umpires, which is a distinction given only a handful of chair umpires based on extensive experience officiating major matches. According to tennis experts and former tennis officials, Ramos is one of the few umpires who isn't afraid to call a rules violation against elite players.

Assuming Serena never received a warning and point/game violations, would she managed to rally back from a set down and win the match? Or was Osaka was too good that day in which no umpire on the face of this planet would have changed the outcome?
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Um, that’s her point. We’ll never see a man draw 3 code violations in a gs final. Only happens to a woman.
Oh, right. The sexism card. Probably should have seen that one coming, but like you pointed out earlier, I'm a 'gentleman here on TT' so I guess a lot of stuff just flies over my chauvinistic head.

More to the point; has any other player, (male or female) managed to amass two violations in recent memory, Serena aside? Because if they have, they did a fantastic job in not letting it get to three. It's almost like it shouldn't be that hard.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
I don't think there's any reason why she should be more demur because she's a female. If men can be abrasive so can women..
I've always thought women to be the more "civilized" of the sexes. That a woman would act like an aggressive jerk, and justify it solely based on what crude, abrasive and obnoxious men have done? Most unfortunate.
 
Serena and her coach do have a point that rules against coaching should be applied more uniformly (maybe abandoned). However, she can't deny what now is a video record: she repeatedly said that it wasn't coaching and the umpire "attacked her character" (when her own coach admitted right after the match that he WAS coaching). She also said: "you will never, ever, ever be on another court of mine as long as you live." That's a threat. Actually, the umpire did give her a lot of leeway but she just couldn't stop.


If Serena didn't have her baggage of threatening line judges (her infamous: "I swear to God I'll ****ing take the ball and shove it down your ****ing throat"), I think she could have avoided the game penalty.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Osaka would have won anyway. Serena had no answer for beating her. She kept her poise and was able to match Serena stroke for stroke and her serve kept Serena off her game. Osaka also didn’t get rattled by Serena’s antics, most players would have lost focus and the 2nd set.
She was much tougher and the better player. Her win should not be marred by Serena, she beat her.
 
We do live in a funny world. Novak who I love sits around without his shirt off for ten minutes after a dude somehow gets to change his sweaty clothes with no penalty while a girl flips her shirt around and gets a warning lol. I don't even know wtf to think.
Sitting down being the operative term-if she had sat down it wouldn't have been an issue.
 

NuBas

Legend
At that point, Osaka was already up a break 4-3. I'm confident she would have held, if not would have been 4-4 back to Serena to serve. Chance Serena would have been up 5-4. Osaka most likely holds and maybe breaks Serena for 6-5 then eventual game cause Osaka' serve was on point, running forehand pushing opponent back, and she was just too focused.
 

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Oh yeah, let's speculate about this.
(And every other straight set match where something happened that might not have happened if we were in an alternate reality).
 

upchuck

Hall of Fame
Serena at 37 can't beat these kinds of players in the final of majors. It's ridiculous that there isn't more discussion about her obvious age-related decline.
 
Maybe if her coach didn't coach her which everyone knows is against the rules GOATMOS wouldn't have given a warning. I love how the Serena defence is nothing more than "The umpire should not enforce the rules because it's a final". WTF kind of BS logic is that? If he let one player receive coaching while the other was following the rules, that is a clear advantage. Why the hell would he do that?

Use your brain...
Think you mean the umpire should not enforce the rules because it is me & the same rules everybody else have to adhere to don't apply to me.
 

reaper

Legend
I don't think I have ever seen a man get a coaching violation. EVER. Like EVER. Not that I have seen it a lot period lol.
They're handed out from time to time. I've seen Nadal pinged for it several times. It might be that there's a lot of interaction between coaches and players but it's normally difficult for the umpire to make out what is being said/communicated. In this case the umpire saw the gesture clearly so ruled on it.
 

StannisTheMannis

Hall of Fame
Osaka was wiping the floor with her. But all Serena wanted to do was seed doubt that she was getting her a** kicked so she made a scene and used the gender and mother card. And it worked.
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
At that point, Osaka was already up a break 4-3. I'm confident she would have held, if not would have been 4-4 back to Serena to serve. Chance Serena would have been up 5-4. Osaka most likely holds and maybe breaks Serena for 6-5 then eventual game cause Osaka' serve was on point, running forehand pushing opponent back, and she was just too focused.
Osaka wasnt up a break. It was on serve 3-4.
 

oldmanfan

Legend
Roddick did say that. About a half hour after, he also tweeted "Emotional first take by me. common sense should’ve prevailed in my opinion. He’s within his power to make that call. I’ve seen an umpire borderline coach a player up,and another dock a game for being called a thief in same tourney. There needs to be some continuity in the future" along with admitting "Absolutely true. Completely biased commentary by me. We’ve been friends since we were young kids. So be it". Fair, IMO.

As for Azarenka - well, I guess we'll see whenever a man gets three code violations in a major final. Till then, who knows?
The bold needs to be taken in context. Serena was penalized a game for '3rd violation', NOT bc she called the Ump a thief. The problem? Calling the Ump a thief was the aforementioned '3rd violation'. The Ump didn't use any 'discretion' on the penalty. It was by the books, full stop.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
Not surprising. The players know the truth, on court coaching happens all the time and goes unpunished yet Serena gets the warning/penalty in a slam final. Ludicrous. Men get away with far worse. Interesting hearing from the players perspective instead of some forum trolls.
Cry some more of those big salty crocodile tears for us, mate. They delicious.:rolleyes:

Serena's not the first to be given a code violation for coaching. If she hadn't smashed her raquet, endangering the safety of those around her, and called the chair umpire a thief....it wouldn't have mattered.
 

darrinbaker00

Professional
Serena at 37 can't beat these kinds of players in the final of majors. It's ridiculous that there isn't more discussion about her obvious age-related decline.
First of all, she isn't 37 yet. Secondly, she won Australia last year and reached the finals of Wimbledon and the US Open this year, so her "decline" is still better than most players' peak.
 

insideguy

Legend
They're handed out from time to time. I've seen Nadal pinged for it several times. It might be that there's a lot of interaction between coaches and players but it's normally difficult for the umpire to make out what is being said/communicated. In this case the umpire saw the gesture clearly so ruled on it.
Its kind odd cause you would think these coaches have some basic signals like a cough or something for basic movements lol.
 

NuBas

Legend
Re-watching the incident. The first warning for coaching should have just been put to bed, no drama, nothing lost, no one in stands could even hear Ramos so unlikely people will think Serena is cheating anyways. Second violation now shes on thin ice. Telling umpire to stop speaking to her for refusing to apologize but seconds later Serena initiates conversation again then calls umpire thief.

Thief itself is not harsh but the fact that she continued after being on thin ice and after even saying don't speak to me again. The game penalty is harsh but Serena needs to take accountability cause she could have avoided it. She is a seasoned champ so she knew what she was getting into.

She may have been too up on her horse since she thought entire crowd had her back.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Osaca was up a break at 4-3 and needed two service holds to win it. She didn't get tight while serving for it at 5-4. Nobody knows for sure but from the way she served it out, she most likely would have won anyway.
 
How many times is someone going to play the race or gender card to get out of taking responsibility for their actions?

I weep for today’s culture.
Society has made it incredibly easy to play these cards-especially in recent times with this metoo culture-I mean it isn't like Serena only has problems with male officials is it? if it was a female umpire she likely would have been dubbed a traitor to the sisterhood or jealous of a powerful woman who is a hero to millions.
 

FD3S

Hall of Fame
Its kind odd cause you would think these coaches have some basic signals like a cough or something for basic movements lol.
Instead you have Serena claiming on-court that she and her coach don't have signals, then her coach admitting right after the match that he was coaching (but it's okay, because everybody does it guys - look at Toni and Rafa!) and then Serena acting confused about his statement, saying she didn't know what he was talking about.

NOPE, NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top