How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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NuBas

Legend
Right now I don't have a cable subscription so I missed the match. After reading about this debacle I do not see the point of paying extra to get the Tennis Channel(for its rerun coverage). I have been a big fan of tennis since 1985 but I am tired of the ridiculous sense of hubris exhibited not just by Serena but by all these pampered players. This is a classic example of what is wrong with society in general. Everything is blown way out of proportion. Like a lifeguard at the pool the umpire is not going to call every infraction. However, he does have the authority to make the calls he did and if he was wrong, it was not because he is biased against women. There is a way that Serena is right but not the victim of a plot against her individually or as a woman.
First world problems.
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
I suspect the treatment of a male player in similar circumstances depends which umpire they get. Carlos Ramos has a reputation for umpiring by the book. A different umpire might have let Serena go and done nothing about it.
Seems fair and reasonable but I still think Novak or god forbid Nadal one Roger out of character or not would’ve never gotten that penalty. And I’m allowing for myself to be wrong cause I didn’t know that nuanced fact about the umpire but I can promise the backlash wouldn’t be this.
 

oldmanfan

Legend
At that point, Osaka was already up a break 4-3. I'm confident she would have held, if not would have been 4-4 back to Serena to serve. Chance Serena would have been up 5-4. Osaka most likely holds and maybe breaks Serena for 6-5 then eventual game cause Osaka' serve was on point, running forehand pushing opponent back, and she was just too focused.
Possible, but you're being very generous to Serena in that scenario. It almost looked like Naomi semi-gifted the return game when Serena served at 3-5 (after the game penalty).

All momentum was with Naomi after breaking again to go up 4-3 (she even had BP(s) in Serena's 1st service game in set 2). Had there been no game penalty, I think Naomi would have held for 5-3 anyways and likely break again for the match, winning 6-2 6-3 instead of the current final score of 6-2 6-4. If so, it would be par for the course bc Naomi has blown everyone off the courts in this tournament, except Sabalenka's set2 & set3.
 

insideguy

Legend
Rafa went ballistic after getting booked for it. But he got himself off the ledge pretty quickly after.
I believe golf has a violation policy for broken clubs. But sports like baseball don’t.
I think the tennis penalty is more so for influencing kids away from being bratty?
Yea maybe. I don't know if golf has one for smashing a club ill have to check that. But I think they should be like ok bring ten rackets. Do what you want with them. If you run out you lose.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
No male player who's reached a GS final in the last 15 years that I have been following the game would behave the way Serena did. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Ferrer, Berdych, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Cilic, Agassi, Soderling you take anyone. Forget male players, I would say the same thing about other female players as well. No one other than Serena would do that. They may get one code violation for coaching/racquet abuse but they would not repeat it, nor would they throw a temper tantrum like her and berate the umpire. Serena has a problem and it has nothing to do with her gender or race.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that she has a daughter!
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
Are we allowing for the possibility she truly feels that? And if how she feels in her heart of hearts while you may disagree is she really wrong? My issues with forums and it’s while I leave this one alone normally and stick to gear based ones is as fans we speak to too many absolutes. And that is maddening.
 

MrFlip

Semi-Pro
You really want to play that card when there’s male tennis players like Kyrgios, Troicki and McEnroe? Mac is literally known for being an absolute roller coaster so you probably should shut up and stay quiet.
Because Kygrios, McEnroe and Troicki are claiming there is a racist, sexist conspiracy to cheat them out of a title.

It's a one to one to comparison! DERP!
 
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NuBas

Legend
Yea I mean she is super cool. But then again she gets depressed ect. I am a fan for sure. Remember when Sloan was super cool then she started bugging everyone and then she dropped off and people said ohh I hate her she is lazy then bam she comes back and everyone is like oh she's not so bad and then well you know what I mean lol.
I became a fan first because of her as a person and cause she's represents Japan. Kinda like how Bouchard fans loved her for her beauty and will always be there for her haha.
 

ohiostate124

Professional
Seems fair and reasonable but I still think Novak or god forbid Nadal one Roger out of character or not would’ve never gotten that penalty. And I’m allowing for myself to be wrong cause I didn’t know that nuanced fact about the umpire but I can promise the backlash wouldn’t be this.
Why do people think that stars like Roger, Rafa, or Novak wouldn’t be called for it but a star like Serena in her home country’s slam would? If anything, it would be more logical to think that she’d receive special treatment.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
Most any other mentally weak WTA player, Serena very well could have came back and won. Osaka didn't wilt under the pressure. Serena did. Full credit to Osaka.
 

NuBas

Legend
Possible, but you're being very generous to Serena in that scenario. It almost looked like Naomi semi-gifted the return game when Serena served at 3-5 (after the game penalty).

All momentum was with Naomi after breaking again to go up 4-3 (she even had BP(s) in Serena's 1st service game in set 2). Had there been no game penalty, I think Naomi would have held for 5-3 anyways and likely break again for the match, winning 6-2 6-3 instead of the current final score of 6-2 6-4. If so, it would be par for the course bc Naomi has blown everyone off the courts in this tournament, except Sabalenka's set2 & set3.
If she succeeded on this slow butt surface, I hope she will have good run at the FO. Lets get a second GS to overshadow this headache. 2019 should be fun for WTA and ATP.
 
D

Deleted member 735320

Guest
It's not a classic example of anything. It's just a tennis match.
Tennis matches can demonstrate poor behavior. A duly appointed authority made a call that she did not like or agree with. She is entitled to her opinion but she was wrong to think that her explanation had any merit. The umpire did not say that he agreed with her and she had no expectation that the warning was removed. She is a very seasoned veteran so she should know the rules. If she truly believes that the US Open is unfair to her than she should have been on her extra best behavior.
 

FedLIKEnot

Professional
Why do people think that stars like Roger, Rafa, or Novak wouldn’t be called for it but a star like Serena in her home country’s slam would? If anything, it would be more logical to think that she’d receive special treatment.
So you feel roles reversed Rafa or Novak gets the penalty or the nonsense coaching warning? Cause I promise you there are examples to be had of other players saying worse. Shoot how many racquets did Grigor break when he finally defaulted verses Schwartzmen (sp?) and he was tanking at that time. There are examples. For this to be so by the book without room for nuance during a final she was likely losing anyways?
 

ohiostate124

Professional
So you feel roles reversed Rafa or Novak gets the penalty or the nonsense coaching warning? Cause I promise you there are examples to be had of other players saying worse. Shoot how many racquets did Grigor break when he finally defaulted verses Schwartzmen (sp?) and he was tanking at that time. There are examples. For this to be so by the book without room for nuance during a final she was likely losing anyways?
http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/umpire-carlos-ramos-history-code-violations-serena-williams/463180
 

tennisfan2015

Hall of Fame
“To lose a game for saying that, it’s not fair. How many other men do things? There’s a lot of men out here who have said a lot of things. It’s because I am a woman, and that’s not right.”

“I’ve worked so hard to be in this position.”

"Unbelievable, every time I play here, I have problems,”

“I did not get coaching, I don't cheat. You need to make an announcement. I have a daughter and I stand for what's right for her. You owe me an apology.

“For you to attack my character is something that is wrong,”

“You will never ever, ever be in another final. You are a liar.”

Serena Williams’s bid for a 24th major title collapsed in a welter of tears, angry accusation and code violations



She is an uneducated

hysterical trash (or Bogan as we call it in Australia). AND! She has a daughter, and she is a female.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
His story is two-fold: he coached by moving his hand but she wasn't looking.

Coaching could be defined minimalistically, I suppose, but it seems unrealistic.

It is an accusation of cheating, by the way, and not something that is conducive to calm play even in the calm player.
 

Jonas78

Legend
Lol she lost it completely. Using her daugther as an argument, and time after time demanding an apology from the ump:eek:. She seriously thought he was going to say "in sorry i gave you a penalty?"??
 

oldmanfan

Legend
If she succeeded on this slow butt surface, I hope she will have good run at the FO. Lets get a second GS to overshadow this headache. 2019 should be fun for WTA and ATP.
I have good vibes about Naomi's future. I especially like her answer to the 'spending money' question. She said she doesn't really spend on herself and that going to Tokyo (her next tournament), having her sister there (she plays there too?) is the biggest gift. This says that she's very grounded and wont let what happened to Bouchard to happen to her.

Her 2019's results will tell us a lot of her future in the game. She said that she's finally found the 'feeling' that she had at IW18 again, which is why she played so well here. She said she will continue to try to have this 'feeling' going forward.
I think she'll do well in 2019, maybe even another slam? :)
 

Gazelle

Legend
Ramos failed the occasion by being too quick too hand out a coaching penalty and too thin-skinned to take a bit of stick.
You mean Serena failed the occasion, by making a big deal of an initiate harmless warning, not being able to shrug it off like you'd expect from a champion and 'role-model', and escalating the conflict by never shutting up for the remainder of the match instead of concentrating on her tennis.
 
I should but I don't. Certain crazy tennis things stick in my mind. Part of me thinks tennis wants the drama thats why they put coaches down near the court, have racket smashing rules which I honestly don't think any other sport has. Don't smash your racket! LOL who came up with this?
Have you seen what racket smashing does to tennis court? Pieces fall out of the surface it and it leaves a hole there. It is disrespectful for tennis and for other players that smasher thinks he can abuse the court and don't care about the other players. It is not so bad in these grand slam courts because they get resurfased every year, but in a club it is idiotic thing to do and deteriorates playinf surface.
 

insideguy

Legend
Have you seen what racket smashing does to tennis court? Pieces fall out of the surface it and it leaves a hole there. It is disrespectful for tennis and for other players that smasher thinks he can abuse the court and don't care about the other players. It is not so bad in these grand slam courts because they get resurfased every year, but in a club it is idiotic thing to do and deteriorates playinf surface.
Well make it a club rule. I say limit the rackets it they want to smash em smash em. If they run out its their fault they lose. Id bet you see a lot less smashing. I guess I'm a libertarian when it comes to smashing rackets:)
 
Are we allowing for the possibility she truly feels that? And if how she feels in her heart of hearts while you may disagree is she really wrong? My issues with forums and it’s while I leave this one alone normally and stick to gear based ones is as fans we speak to too many absolutes. And that is maddening.
Yes, the umpire is plainly not sexist & this plainly is not about her giving a fig about other women-it is a bandwagon she has jumped on recently for PR purposes & the only women she cares about is herself & to a lesser extent her sister.
 

toby55555

Hall of Fame
Not surprising. The players know the truth, on court coaching happens all the time and goes unpunished yet Serena gets the warning/penalty in a slam final. Ludicrous. Men get away with far worse. Interesting hearing from the players perspective instead of some forum trolls.
Except not all players agree with you including Daniela Hantuchova who was presenting on Prime coverage.
 

ScottleeSV

Professional
The Game penalty was pure BS.

I can understand the point penalty to a degree but calling an Umpire a thief doesn't warrant a game penalty.
She was lucky the match wasn't called right then and there. What she did was a defamation of character, and was way over the top in its tone and delivery. In soccer she would have been straight red carded for that and out of the match. No doubt about it.

It was also cowardly. She knew Ramos couldn't say anything back in his position.

Sexist, she says? Really? Seem to remember Nalbandian being ejected from a match for far less.

It's worth noting that these outburts usually happen with Serena at the US Open. That's three times now (and twice she has effectively ruined someone's debut slam win).

Has she done it at any other slam? She's like a school bully who will only have a pop when she has the crowd standing behind her. That's also an example of cowardice.

She is just an absolute disgrace. I think the most depressing thing about this are the half-arsed attempts to defend her from celebrities and broadcasters.

Why has she never improved her attitude over the years? Because too many people tell her there's nothing wrong with it!

Well done Naomi Osaka.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
This is a gender thing. When men feel insecure/threatened they swear while women play possum and victim cards. I agree its much harder to for the umpire to be hearing things about his mother but in terms of just the abuser both Mac and Serena went long distances

rme
 

Soianka

Hall of Fame
Hemingway wrote that courage is grace under pressure.

Serena Williams' behavior today pretty much confirmed to me that she is a coward and a bully.

If I were a USTA member I would cancel my membership in response to the statement Katrina Adams released on behalf of the organization.
More irrational hatred of a tennis player.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Don't think so, Osaka was completely zoned in. Her on-court composure was that of a veteran of the game and she was completely outplaying Serena. I think she would have won in straights either way.

Shame you don't see that in men's game these days.
but i thought the oh so inferior wta was full of the mentally weak chokers
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
hahaha it takes a man about 5 minutes to calm down and see straight while a woman lives her whole life on an emotional roller coaster
lol are you kidding me, men are some of the biggest emotional babies ever, and its much easier for him to calm down and see what happened because it didnt happen to him. give me a break
 

WhiteStripes

Semi-Pro
What?

the issue is whether what she said in her chair on a changeover should have resulted in a code violation. I say no, and it would not have happened had it been Federer.

In other words, had Federer received coaching, then smashed a racket, and then said what Serena said, is there anybody here who seriously believes he would have received that third code violation at the end of a set in the championship match?

It is not a Level Playing Field and as someone said earlier, perhaps the solution is to tighten up on all players. But as things stand, there is a clear disparity in how female players are treated.
Well, I can't tell how other umpires would act given the same set of circumstances, but Ramos did give Nole a code violation for verbal abuse not long ago. Query who was more abusive to Ramos - Nole or Serena?

 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Roddick was plenty emotional on court in his playing days.
i mean he literally told the audience to stay in school or they would become an umpire and pretty sure the call was wrong. roddick of all people would be calling out the hypocrisy of this forum and doesnt stand for that bs, thank god unlike half the idiots here.
 
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