How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Yoneyama

Hall of Fame
ahggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg far out it is so infuriating to see the CRAP that the media spin on stories like this...

**** me. The umpire FOLLOWED THE DAMN RULES. This sort of sensationalist crap drives me up the wall.

I thought we had it bad in Australia when our media overplays all of Kyrgios antics, but the articles I have seen come out of the US today are just beyond ridiculous.
 

Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
How deep this gets, all youtube videos of Serena's rant were erased.
There is plenty of the footage and video reportage of the incident on Youtube.

Some uploaded videos might disappear after getting flagged for deletion because of copyright infringement rather than any conspiracy theories.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Nike should call that a me-me not a tu-tu. Just no concern for anyone else

Just Do It quite appropriate for someone who should take 10 before opening her mouth
That tutu was the best apparel for that particular occasion.

I will give Nike props for being able to predict that behaviour.

:eek:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The coach admitted to trying to coach her, but you conveniently left out his other statement that she did not see his hand signal.

Being accused of cheating is a serious accusation, and I don't think Ramos acted with the prudence required given the seriousness of the charge.

She was given a code violation for coaching. There's an issue around the consistency of how that's applied, but there's no controversy about whether or not she was being coached. Her coach has said publicly he was doing it on this occasion and that he does it all the time. The faux piety around "cheating" is empty...given that there were clear breaches of the rules.
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
Because people want to see a tennis match, not a trial.
Then why have rules in the first place? And how do we decide which rules are ‘tennis’ and which rules are too strict? Should we also allow PEDs? Cause I want to see a good quality match more often. Or how about the Lahyani incident where he actually helped to make the match more entertaining and spiced things up a bit. Cause I seem to remember you were against him for doing so. Where do we draw the line? Following the rules of a sport doesn’t make it a trial. This wasn’t a case of her being picked on. This was 3 separate offences. A conversation about whether you agree with a rules is besides the point. She fully well knew what she was doing. She tried to push her luck and unfortunately for her, the umpire was not standing for any kind misconduct. Tough luck.
 
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anhedonia

New User
She didn't just call the umpire a thief. She called him a liar, asked him to apologize (for what?), said he was insulting her character and was clearly threatening him. We're not just arguing over a word here.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
There is plenty of the footage and video reportage of the incident on Youtube.

Some uploaded videos might disappear after getting flagged for deletion because of copyright infringement rather than any conspiracy theories.
That is true.

The tracking software makes raging feminists obsolete.

:(
 

Envy

Rookie
The mother tennis player who acts like a baby on court..... makes me appreciate the players who are parents as well, like fed and henin.. I never see them using their kids to point out things let alone as argument with the umpire... ive lost all respect to williams, I coudnt care less if she had 30 GS trophies. Imho shes not the kind junior players should look up to.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You have a different opinion, that's all, and the umpire in this incident has not followed a rule.

He has exercised a discretionary judgement in relation to a rule which a lot of people find flawed.

ahggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg far out it is so infuriating to see the CRAP that the media spin on stories like this...

**** me. The umpire FOLLOWED THE DAMN RULES. This sort of sensationalist crap drives me up the wall.

I thought we had it bad in Australia when our media overplays all of Kyrgios antics, but the articles I have seen come out of the US today are just beyond ridiculous.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
I think coaching has the capacity to make a huge difference. If a player implements a tactic they weren't using before they received the external advice it can change a match.
For me that is perfectly fine. Like in boxing or table tennis. Would you like being able to hear what Ljubicic would say to Fed against Millman or Moya to Nadal against Djokovic or Vajda to Djokovic against Fucsovicz? Hearing coaching is great entertainment and gives you a real insight into sport you are watching. In table tennis it is incredible what kind of technical advises you can hear given to world best players. it is true that a minimal change could make a huge difference and that is the beauty of it.
 

reaper

Legend
The coach admitted to trying to coach her, but you conveniently left out his other statement that she did not see his hand signal.

Being accused of cheating is a serious accusation, and I don't think Ramos acted with the prudence required given the seriousness of the charge.
It's odd that she didn't see it when she said he was giving her a thumbs up. There's no contingency on whether she saw the gesture, it's the intent that matters. FWIW I think she was harshly treated on the game penalty on the footage I've seen, unless there were other comments not put to air.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
I agree with this:

Ramos went out of his way to call the initial violation. I'm wagering not one person even thought about it until he made it an issue, and it's absolutely true that it goes on all the time and is usually not called.

The initial mistake was Ramos's, and the idea that he had to do it is absolute BS.

But what followed was an absolute fluster cluck. :(
Osaka is in the big match for the first time.

Serena, a 23 times Major champion, gets the coaching.

The umpire decides to level the score on that one as it is actually against the rules AND the more experienced player gets another advantage.

You are right, the umpire could have closed his eyes.

Good on him that he didn't.

:cool:
 
Agree. The most prudent strategy for referees is to ignore it until it is a totally obvious case of rules infringement. In this particular case Serena and sections of American public are frustrated with the loss. They don't see it as a sport where justice is done when a better player wins on the night. They see it as someone spoiled a perfectly scripted fairy tale.
Yeah, but I think it's also time to maybe reverse the fairytale frenzy that has been contaminating sports.
At times it feels way too fabricated.
Not everything has to end in a fairytale denouement that the public wants, was carefully prepared for, and must therefore have.

This is emotional porn that became popular with reality shows and "American Idol", where every path to "glory" (which turns out to be ephemeral in most cases) has to be embellished with an inspirational story of some kind.

The trivialisation of fairytales and inspirational stories, with their intense late capitalism focus on emotional consumerism, is actually counter-productive in the long run, and will most likely make people miss the time where an extraordinary accomplishment was a rare feat (and thus special) and not something whipped up by the media through the power of suggestion and a tightly-woven backstory that has nothing to do with the sport itself.
 

reaper

Legend
For me that is perfectly fine. Like in boxing or table tennis. Would you like being able to hear what Ljubicic would say to Fed against Millman or Moya to Nadal against Djokovic or Vajda to Djokovic against Fucsovicz? Hearing coaching is great entertainment and gives you a real insight into sport you are watching. In table tennis it is incredible what kind of technical advises you can hear given to world best players. it is true that a minimal change could make a huge difference and that is the beauty of it.
That ultimately comes down to whether you believe the player should refine their own strategy on court or whether external people should assist them I prefer no coaching, but it's not a "deal breaker" for me in terms of being a fan of the sport.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Serena was an embarrassment to the sport today. She alone was responsible for spoiling what should have been the most glorious moment of Osaka's life. Osaka will never get that back. Serena was the thief who stole it.

If anything, the umpire let Serena's abusive attacks go on longer than he should have.

I was neutral on Serena before today. Now I think I will be rooting against her from now on after the ugliest reveal of inner narcissism I've ever witnessed on a tennis court.

PS., how can anyone not root for Osaka? The new face of the WTA tour.
 

Goldie

Rookie
She was getting her butt kicked by a younger and better player. She created a distraction to try and knock her opponent off her game. Almost worked. The Referee clearly followed the rules, and this is the second time Serena Williams did this at the U.S. Open. I think it is time for her and her sister to retire. They have taken enough from tennis and the fans. Tennis will be much better off without her.
She pull an old Johnny Mac, then cried about it. What a joke the U.S. open has turned into. Her draws was the easiest on record, and still she failed.
This used to be tennis and a gentlemen sport, not promoting players who clearly do not deserve it.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Osaka is in the big match for the first time.

Serena, a 23 times Major champion, gets the coaching.

The umpire decides to level the score on that one as it is actually against the rules AND the more experienced player gets another advantage.

You are right, the umpire could have closed his eyes.

Good on him that he didn't.

:cool:
More experience players always get advantages. I don't think SW was going to win the match.

Ramos's 'intervention' helped turn the result into a mess. The loser was the winner, who was overshadowed by the incident.

SW was not innocent. The only thing I will remember is the mess, not the win.

That's what is bad for tennis.
 
Shifting Blame to men who behave more badly is not a defense

However , he should have given her a verbal abuse warning not take a damn game
The rules state quite clearly that three violations & in the same set no less is an automatic game deduction-coaching, racquet abuse & then verbally abusing the umpire & calling his integrity into question. Please don't blame other people for what she caused. Serena screwed Serena.

 

BorgCash

Legend
If any of you watched the Sascha Bajin press conference on the US Open website several days ago, he threw shades at Serena for being "fake" or not genuine. This rings true at 11:50 when after she hugs Osaka, she physically bumps into Osaka.

Correct, she's real fake champion.
 

reaper

Legend
I would have, and I'm almost twice her age. ;)
I think there's a shrill moralism around matters like this. Tennis has rules. She wasn't accused of being "a cheat." She was accused of violating a rule of the sport that carries a sanction, in this case a warning. The warning was issued. From that moment on it's play on without prejudice. Instead of playing on Williams elected to turn the match into a morality play around among other things her child and whether the umpire should get on bended knee and apologise. This despite the fact the code violation was correct. Williams should have concentrated more on tennis and less on sanctimony. Particularly since she had nothing to be sanctimonious about!
 

Badabing888

Hall of Fame
I think the MC record is really weighing on her shoulders now. Not that this is the only reason she reacted like she did, but still she knows she’s running out of time to break it.

Being a black and female American can’t help either and developing her victim mentality whenever she feels slighted. She has form for imploding this on Ashe v Clijsters in that semi and also in the final v Stosur - both times she was losing.
 

LETitBE

Hall of Fame
the umpire should have replied....if a male player jumped off a cliff would you do it too...hahahaha remember that one in first class kiddies?
 
I've got to say I was expecting to see something more dramatic to earn the game penalty. Whether there was more than shown on the coverage isn't clear. If it was simply for saying that the umpire stole a point from her (which is not the same as saying the umpire is corrupt) then the umpire should not have proceeded to a code violation at that point. There's a few unanswered questions. Serena's coach has admitted to coaching and the footage of him doing so has been produced. He also said Osaka was being coached throughout the match. If so, there should be some footage of it...
It was her third violation-at that point it becomes an automatic game deduction. If she somehow wasn't looking at her coach then she needs to blame him for costing her the first violation & not the umpire. The second violation was destroying her racquet & the third one was abusing the umpire/calling his character into question-which again is all on her.
 

PrinceMoron

Legend
Camera operator will have been seeing the coaching all week to have been looking out for it in the final


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
If Serena tries to use her antics in RG French crowd would just put her in her place so bady she might not even want to return to play tennis again.I think they would boo her even worse than what they did to Hingis 1999 against Steffi.Wimbledon and AO ı can see these crowds not been sympatic to her either.There is a reason this always happen in US not that much other GS. She is also not that stupid she knows that she wouldnt be tolarated one bit ouside US. On the other hand ı dont mean French crowd s best so good blah blah but sometimes they give you what you truly deserve.At least Hingis was just a 18 years old teenager.So dont say Serena somekind of gracious in other slam defeats.She has to she has no choice.No one would tolarate this behaviour outside US.
 

reaper

Legend
It was her third violation-at that point it becomes an automatic game deduction. If she somehow wasn't looking at her coach then she needs to blame him for costing her the first violation & not the umpire. The second violation was destroying her racquet & the third one was abusing the umpire/calling his character into question-which again is all on her.
Yes...what I'm not convinced of is that in the 3rd one she abused the umpire or called his character into question. There might be more that wasn't shown but I just watched a replay and what was shown was at worst at the low end of that.
 
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