How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Bukmeikara

Legend
In order to protect her ego, Serena may launch an international scandal if that is to happen :) ""You ****ty French, you blame me because I am american"
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
The Washington Post is generally not considered a creditable news source. Sensationalistic news.

The rules are in place. Its not a rule some of the time and not others. Not open to interpretation....or shouldn't be I.M.O. Don't like a rule, take it off the books. Ramos was doing his job. The way he's always done it. No coaching during the match. The man meekly and passively listened to Serena rant for 10 minutes. Let her blow off some steam. Trying to calm her down by calmly explaining his reasoning. She didn't let up. While walking to serve, Serena basically called Ramos a cheater. Serena has only herself to blame...and her coach.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
More experience players always get advantages. I don't think SW was going to win the match.

Ramos's 'intervention' helped turn the result into a mess. The loser was the winner, who was overshadowed by the incident.

SW was not innocent. The only thing I will remember is the mess, not the win.

That's what is bad for tennis.
"More experienced players always get advantages"

Is that something that you approve of, so that you comment on it as though as it should be normal and not paid attention to?

The umpire didn't "mess up the score". I don't know what match you were watching.

You remember the mess, because Serena was instrumental in that during and after the match, not because the umpire did what he did.

Upholding the rules and the integrity of the game is good. I thought that you had a better perspective than the one you here demonstrate.

:cool:
 

Mr Feeny

Hall of Fame
First of all, I am 100% with the umpire but I like to point out how sensitive some people could be:

The OP agreed that Serena deserved her first two warnings and then says that the 3rd one is over the top being just about the word " thief" !!! And just like that, for MAYBE making a far streched call which could easily be a honest mistake, she goes out and calls him a sexist. Just because one call she is ready to mark him for life with these accusations. Saw the irony ?!!
How does it even make him a sexist? It's so odd. It's so cringrworthy and forced. She wants to portray herself as a voice for women's rights and she's looking for anywhere to cry about sexism even in situations like this where it doesn't make any sense and has people laughing at her.
 
So according to Patrick Mouratoglou (Serena's coach) this is what happened.
Carlos Ramos is Jody!
Spin machinery strikes again.

 
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GioV

Rookie
Disgrace!! I mean they should censor the word thief on these boards. The worst word in the English dictionary
 
The coach admitted to trying to coach her, but you conveniently left out his other statement that she did not see his hand signal.

Being accused of cheating is a serious accusation, and I don't think Ramos acted with the prudence required given the seriousness of the charge.
Female players get a warning for coaching on a regular basis-of course they all claim they are blind & the coach is innocent, or that they weren't looking at the time-which begs the question as to why the coach should be waving their hands/arms at them in the first place if their charge is ignoring them. Other players after a grumble just get on with it however & don't incur two further violations-it is hardly the temperament of a champion to let it fester away & have two further outbursts. We can equate it to Cricket where in 2006 the Pakistan team conceded a test match after refusing to return after tea having been accused of ball tampering & docked four penalty runs, or more recently the Sri Lankan team doing something similar against the Windies. Or right back to 2001 when India created an almighty furore over ball-tampering & conduct during a test against South Africa when they were caught out.

It is an easy one to solve-coaches are there to coach people off the court, when they get on the court it is up to them & most certainly the supposed greatest female player ever should not need any assistance in a match. Just ban them from the stands-if they want to be there then they can watch it on the monitor backstage in the players families facilities etc. Serena is pushing herself as the voice of equality so she should be happy for the WTA players to abide by the same rules as the men at all events which would kill this argument dead-ATP rules currently stipulate: 'Players shall not receive coaching during a tournament match. Communications of any kind, audible or visible.
 

Elektra

Professional
Remember she had problems at the French Open early in her career which is why the French still have an icy relationship with her. I agree with you but her followers will still continue to see her as a victim whether they are in NYC, London or in the North Pole.

Keep in mind Serena is a media darling now, the media will try to spin whatever nonsense she does and frame it with an agenda. This not only in the US but all over.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
No surprise she is using the current feminism narrative to excuse her abysmal behaviour.

"I'm here fighting for women's rights and for women's equality and for all kinds of stuff. For me to say 'thief' and for him to take a game, it made me feel like it was a sexist remark. He's never taken a game from a man because they said 'thief'.

"For me it blows my mind. But I'm going to continue to fight for women and to fight for us to have equality.

"I just feel like the fact that I have to go through this is just an example for the next person that has emotions, and that want to express themselves, and want to be a strong woman.
When has a man called an umpire a thief? As a woman, I don't think Serena is fighting for me at all. At first, she denied that any coaching took place now that she's been proven to be wrong because there is evidence of it, she's put on her ultimate shield to fight for all women, especially those who have just had a baby. Any man who behaves like Serena did yesterday would get the same punishment.
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
This is what really frustrates me. The casual reader will pick this up on the train ride to work in the morning and be horribly misinformed about what happened, and form a biased judgment upon it. Serena gets hailed as a hero. Carlos’ name gets tarnished. And ultimately, Tennis gets out in bad light seems like a disingenuous sport. Disgraceful journalism
 

GioV

Rookie
Federer has never used the word thief in his tirades against umpires, thus, he would never get a warning. It is the most terrible word in the English language. It is the new line you must not cross in tennis
 

Otacon

Hall of Fame
I've read hundreds of reactions in many languages from around the world, and what happened yesterday went beyond tennis, because the reaction of Serena, the crowd and the US media unable to express the slightest criticism vis-à-vis the player has shocked many people.
Tennis has a reputation for being a graceful and classy sport, but yesterday's events have shaken that positive image.
 

Zardoz7/12

Professional
Petty politicized nonsense promoted by pack minded people who play the thesis and the antithesis Hegelian dialectic. Now it's Man vs Woman, the thesis and antithesis is always there to play on whilst the agitators can sit back and watch the carnage.
 
D

Deleted member 756486

Guest
Mainstream media have their head firmly up Serena's ass so this doesn’t surprise me.
 

Otacon

Hall of Fame
I've been to Roland Garros several times and I can tell you that most of the crowd that attend Serena matches are not french but mainly Americans and Anglo-Saxons.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Coaches sit where they do these days for the benefit of television even though this makes coaching and other forms of communication somewhat inevitable.

Players almost all look at their boxes to see if they should challenge although this too is cheating.

And as I said elsewhere, most of the people complaining about Williams would have reacted the same if accused of cheating.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
Laying blame on any one person is just totally bogus and not fair. It could have been handled better from both sides, period. The debate over whether other coaches coach and why coaching should be allowed is up for debate, but none of that should matter because Ramos called it like he saw it. Did he have to give her a warning for verbal abuse? Certainly not, and I've heard worse said to umpires with little to no punitive action taken, but Serena did keep berating him and demanding an apology as well. Clearly, both sides were at fault in this one and it's a shame that it had to end marred in controversy because this shouldn't be about Serena, it should be about Osaka. Osaka was the better player, she played the bigger points better, she served better, and she won. That's the story, and yet it's rather sad and disappointing that this incident puts a damper on her amazing run.
 

BorgCash

Legend
Naomi is a deserving champion and … Serena at all times plays with class and makes us proud.

What? After her crap behavior, made this match one of the worst in tennis history? What the f... double standards by officials. Serena rules WTA?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Not blaming him but I wish the umpire had let it go.

It's like the fourth quarter in the NBA. You let the players play and don't call a foul unless it is obvious.

"Thief" is borderline. Just let it go.

Also, maybe rule should be changed so that the referee has discretion to overrule such cases. Otherwise what is the point of bringing him out on the court? :eek:
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Although I agree with this, I don't think Williams would have let it go.

But he should have soaked up a little more lip and then acted.

Ramos also might have acted too quickly with the coaching violation as well.

I prefer the Lahyani style of umpiring, to quote the opposite end of the spectrum.

Not blaming him but I wish the umpire had let it go.

It's like the fourth quarter in the NBA. You let the players play and don't call a foul unless it is obvious. \

"Thief" is borderline. Just let it go.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
That rather foolish individual took the strategy of arguing that if everyone does it then I can do it.

Williams says this is not the case, so expect some interesting conversations in her camp.

If Patrick is saying that everyone does it and they coach on nearly all the points, then it makes no sense for Serena to go ballistic like that.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You're always good for a vast array of argumentative error.

Rules in tennis could do with a lot more clarification than they currently get.

Just look how long it took them to deal with time-wasting on serves!

And still the first penalty is a mere warning!

How about re-writing the rules for unsporsmanlike conduct, equipment abuse, verbal offences?

I suggest that we turn tennis into a full - contact sport with raquets.

:cool:
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It seems to me she certainly got caught up in her emotionally-constructed sense of injustice and this was a convenient way of mentally-checking out of a match she was losing.

But I wouldn't see all this as intentional or strategic.
 
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