How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Boom-Boom

Legend
After being penalised for throwing her racket early in the second set:

'This is unbelievable. Every team I play here I have problems.

'I didn't get coaching, I didn't get coaching. I didn't get coaching. You need to make an announcement that I didn't get coaching. I don't cheat, I didn't get coaching. How can you say that?

'You owe me an apology. You owe me an apology. I have never cheated in my life. I have a daughter and I stand for what is right for her and I've never cheated. You owe me an apology.

After being broken to trail 4-3 in the second set:

'I never got coaching. I explained that to you and for you to attack my character then something is wrong. You're attacking my character. Yes you are. You owe me an apology.

'You will never, ever, ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar. When are you going to give me my apology? You owe me an apology.

'Say it, say you're sorry. Then don't talk to me, don't talk to me. How dare you insinuate I was cheating? You stole a point from me. You're a thief too.'

After being docked a game:

'Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Because I said you were a thief? You stole a point from me. I'm not a cheater. I told you to apologise to me. Excuse me I need the referee, I don't agree with that.

With tournament referees:

'This is not right. INAUDIBLE. He said I was being coached but I was not being coached. That's not right. You know me. You know my character. This is not fair. This has happened to me too many times. This is not fair. To lose a game for saying that is not fair. Do you know how many men do things that are much worse than that? This is not fair.

'There are a lot of men out here that have said a lot of things and because they are a man it doesn't matter. This is unbelievable. No I don't know the risk because if I say a simple thing, a thief, because he stole a point from me.

'There are men out here that do a lot worse and because I'm a woman you're going to take this away from me. That is not right. And you know it and I know you can't admit it, but I know you know that is not right. I know you can't change it but I'm just saying that is not right.

'I get the rules but I'm just saying it's not right. It happens to me at this tournament every single year and it's not fair. That's all I have to say.

Post-match press conference:

'I can't sit here and say I wouldn't say he's a thief, because I thought he took a game from me.

'But I've seen other men call other umpires several things. I'm here fighting for women's rights and for women's equality and for all kinds of stuff. For me to say 'thief' and for him to take a game, it made me feel like it was a sexist remark. He's never taken a game from a man because they said 'thief'. It blows my mind.

'I just feel like the fact that I have to go through this is just an example for the next person that has emotions, and that wants to express themselves, and wants to be a strong woman.

'They're going to be allowed to do that because of today. Maybe it didn't work out for me, but it's going to work out for the next person.'
incredible, WTA just ban her please
 

randomtoss

Semi-Pro
Ramos was the chair umpire who clashed with Wawrinka in the AO 14 final so .... in your face fragile women ! I hope it didnt sounded that harsh :oops:
I think it further supports the view there are double standards.

And your words didn't sound that harsh, just uselessly disrespectful.
 

Boom-Boom

Legend
No male player who's reached a GS final in the last 15 years that I have been following the game would behave the way Serena did. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Ferrer, Berdych, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Cilic, Agassi, Soderling you take anyone. Forget male players, I would say the same thing about other female players as well. No one other than Serena would do that. They may get one code violation for coaching/racquet abuse but they would not repeat it, nor would they throw a temper tantrum like her and berate the umpire. Serena has a problem and it has nothing to do with her gender or race.
lucid poast
 
Ramos shouldve announced in the microphone that serena has a daughter
Yeah, but then she would have accused him of getting personal with her and invading her privacy.

:eek:

P.S. I just realised that I have been involved on this board in such a situation, and the reaction of the person was similar to what I described.

 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Serena made another absolute show of herself last night, didn't she? :D:eek: She'll probably be regretting that in the days to come.

Having said that, I think Mr Ramos could have let the last outburst go without the game penalty. I think that was unnecessary when he knew Williams was already overwrought.

Well done to Naomi Osaka by the way.
 

mike schiffer

Semi-Pro
Whatever you think of Serena and Naomi (and I adore Naomi), there is no doubt in my mind that the chair acted improperly.

I think there was gender bias at work. The first coaching violation? Deserved. The second violation? Deserved.

But I cannot begin to count the number of times men have sat in their chairs on changeovers and had heated discussions with umpires, and nothing whatever happens. But when it is Serena, it is a game penalty in the final. Insane. Her words were actually civil -- saying she deserved an apology, no profanity, no threats.

Need more proof?

In this same tournament, we had a chair umpire come out of his chair to basically coach Kirios in front of God and everyone. The proper response would have been to enforce the code of conduct, but no. Ump goes easy on the man, and USTA backs up the umpire.

By that standard, Ramos should have come out of his chair and talked to Serena, calm her nerves, tell her he wants to help her. Nope -- game penalty (when the tirade was over and he could have let it go) to put Serena's opponent a game away from the championship.

Congratulations to Naomi, but what happened today was rooted in disparate treatment and sexism.
Umpire should never have called for a coaching violation during a Grand slam final.....That set her up for what transpired and ruined the match.....
 

George Turner

Hall of Fame
Carlos, a sincere thank you for having the guts to stand up and call it like it is!



How dare you defend a sexist, racist, misogynist, woman hating, rape condoning umpire for doing his job and applying the rules correctly. You sir are an absolute disgrace! :p

Welcome to feminism in 2018.

 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Overpaid spoiled tennis players, what's new?

P.S. I don't think Mr Ramos will be featuring on Serena's Christmas Card list anytime soon!




:D:D
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
i mean he literally told the audience to stay in school or they would become an umpire and pretty sure the call was wrong. roddick of all people would be calling out the hypocrisy of this forum and doesnt stand for that bs, thank god unlike half the idiots here.
Oh yeah Roddick had plenty of outburts on court, everyone who followed his career knows it. However he did backtrack here after he calmed down which IMO shows this isn't a black and white situation (and Roddick is certainly not against Serena in any way, they're childhood friends). From my point of view the problem here wasn't that one insult (that happens pretty regularly) but that Serena spent so long verbally going at Ramos after already having two violations, that was just playing with fire (especially if Ramos is known for being a hardass among tennis umpires).

Of course one of the biggest issues here is the inconsistency in enforcing the rules which creates confusion. Whether it excuses his behaviour or not what Mouratoglou said is true, the majority of coaches (on both tours) signal their players from the stands and rarely get violation for it. My stance on the rules has always been, either enforce it consistently or modify it/scrap it, doing it sporadically can cause significant problems.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
No surprise she is using the current feminism narrative to excuse her abysmal behaviour.

"I'm here fighting for women's rights and for women's equality and for all kinds of stuff. For me to say 'thief' and for him to take a game, it made me feel like it was a sexist remark. He's never taken a game from a man because they said 'thief'.

"For me it blows my mind. But I'm going to continue to fight for women and to fight for us to have equality.

"I just feel like the fact that I have to go through this is just an example for the next person that has emotions, and that want to express themselves, and want to be a strong woman.
sez the man
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Can't wait till this arrogant bully is out of the game.

Was getting beat by Osaka and decided to take her anger out on Ramos. When her bullying backfired she switched gears and started blaming men in general.

I feel bad for Osaka and I'm not even a fan of hers. Now her win is always gonna get overshadowed by this stupidity.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
I have seen the situation just now. I think that Ramos was extremely tolerant and suffered abuse for minutes before Serena forced him to do what he has done. What he said to him (a thief and a lair) can't go unpunished. Serene was not properly psychologically ready for this match and should address all anger to herself and her coaching staff.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
but i thought the oh so inferior wta was full of the mentally weak chokers
Yeah, anyone who uses that argument in the light of current situation on both tours is just heavily biased. This was Serena in good form (better than she was at Wimbledon) and a young player played fearless attacking tennis against her and kept her composure amazingly well.

Compare that to Thiem not being able to beat out of sorts Nadal even though he literally destroyed him in the 1st set or Kyrgios tanking against very lackluster Fed. Not to mention the golden boy Zverev losing to 40 year old Kohlschreiber who's one foot in retirement. It's a joke.
 

OhYes

Legend
I still have no clue what this whole thing has to do with GENDER?!? Lol WTF Serena that was so random.
Well making noise on skin color has became old, racism has been pulled out so many times before so now it's time for another victim role - I am a woman and a mother.
She got lost along the way, bcs women and mothers (especially stable acomplished ones) don't have the need to give looks and have intimidating posture towards opponent, to make drama because vending machine took them a dollar while they have many more in their wallet.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
The first violation, Patrick just looks to be inviting Serena to play video games after the match. The second violation, Serena appears to be swatting at a sweat bee. The third violation...well, busted on that one. So, one code violation. No point penalty. No game.penalty. And Ramos isn't black balled from any future Serena matches.
 
Overpaid spoiled tennis players, what's new?

P.S. I don't think Mr Ramos will be featuring on Serena's Christmas Card list anytime soon!




:D:D
Apparently he will never umpire another final, will never umpire any of her matches. An obvious threat that she has immense stroke & will be trying to get him blackballed.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Serena was trying to do a Nadal, apparently, but scarcely a threat worthy of a game penalty. It's called venting.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
Ramos also is one of the sport's few "gold badge" umpires, which is a distinction given only a handful of chair umpires based on extensive experience officiating major matches. According to tennis experts and former tennis officials, Ramos is one of the few umpires who isn't afraid to call a rules violation against elite players.

Assuming Serena never received a warning and point/game violations, would she managed to rally back from a set down and win the match? Or was Osaka was too good that day in which no umpire on the face of this planet would have changed the outcome?
Serena was going to lose. Even she knee that and the reason for her outburst.
 

HuusHould

Professional
Ouch. Yea it aint gonna be pretty. Although I will say this some things stick with me. Remember when AZ wandered off the court a few years back in a hot Aussie match with Stephens? She just left then came back like 10 minutes later. I don't know if she got disciplined for that. I just remember Stephens was pissed. And she was losing and she came back and beat Sloan. It was nuts. Sometimes these players do things the refs don't have a clue wtf to do.
Yeah, she even forgot to think of what injury she was being treated for. The interviewer asked and she just said she was having trouble breathing and was "choking." Not physically choking, but psychologically. Can you take a time out for a mental health condition such as anxiety. I dont think so!?
 

Goldie

Rookie
Umpire should never have called for a coaching violation during a Grand slam final.....That set her up for what transpired and ruined the match.....
Funny any the interview with her coach, he stated he was coaching her and yet she says he was not. In reality the match should have been over at that point. It was her third violation. If you commit the crime, you take the punishment. She thought since she was Serena Williams she was above the rules. Anyway Serena was creating an distraction to get Naomi off her game. Rules apply to all players!
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Oh yeah Roddick had plenty of outburts on court, everyone who followed his career knows it. However he did backtrack here after he calmed down which IMO shows this isn't a black and white situation (and Roddick is certainly not against Serena in any way, they're childhood friends). From my point of view the problem here wasn't that one insult (that happens pretty regularly) but that Serena spent so long verbally going at Ramos after already having two violations, that was just playing with fire (especially if Ramos is known for being a hardass among tennis umpires).

Of course one of the biggest issues here is the inconsistency in enforcing the rules which creates confusion. Whether it excuses his behaviour or not what Mouratoglou said is true, the majority of coaches (on both tours) signal their players from the stands and rarely get violation for it. My stance on the rules has always been, either enforce it consistently or modify it/scrap it, doing it sporadically can cause significant problems.
Well he enforced them alright. :D
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Paranoia about the media is widespread, but not all outlets are full of nonsense and these are not exactly political issues.

She didnt win anything. Media can back her,but the real problem is people dont take media all that seriously anymore.
 
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