How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
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Naomi Osaka, a 20 year old native of Japan whose shy demeanor and youthful, innocent manner perhaps to some degree betray her remarkable athleticism and fierce competitiveness, conquered the US Open, becoming the first man or woman from her homeland to win a Major singles title. Perhaps even more remarkably, Osaka (competing in her first Grand Slam final) played with consistent purpose, focus, and determination even in the face of a series of unfortunate distractions. Sadly the celebration of her victory has been overshadowed by a peculiar focus on the sources and nature of the distractions themselves, instead of her remarkable play. Play that (hopefully still) may herald the arrival of a much needed new star in the game of women's tennis. Congratulations Naomi. Your quiet dignity in the face of adversity speaks volumes. Please don't let anything distract you from the joy you have earned. The tennis community welcomes and celebrates you.


Talk Tennis Guru
This is the gesture for: Rock-a-bye baby (on the tree top) ♬

I don't know but it's clear her coach knows what he's doing is illegal.

Impressive that the umpire was aware enough to catch it. Even Serena did not see it. :eek:
Yes, Patrick admitted that his motion was an illegal coaching signal. Indicated that this kind of thing is widespread and, as such, showed be allowed.

It is remarkable that the chair ump picked up the gesture. You would think that the chair already has enough on his plate w/o checking out the players boxes in addition to everything else. There is a good chance that the chair saw something previously in the match and decided to glance at her player's box periodically to catch them in the act again.

How did Serena know that Patrick's thumbs were up? She claims that she did not see the gesture but was somehow aware of the orientation of his thumbs. Did the chair show here the gesture after the fact? Or did she actually see it?

In a video review of Serena, it does appear that she glances at her player's box briefly. Did she actually see it? Seems that Patrick performed the gesture twice. Did Serena come to the net or alter her playing actions in some other manner after the gesture?

We can only guess what the gesture means. It does not appear to be intuitively obvious. Given this, it seems like it almost had to be a pre-arranged secret signal to be of any use (despite what Serena claimed about secret coaching signals).
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There is no need to be ashamed. Let Aussie Darcy be your guide to spiritual awareness and the non-spiritual stuff as well.
Spiritual. Awareness? What? That is dead now. I am on my her-ney. This is real. Anything is real if you identify it as real, man! I mean, person. Herstory will be kind to serena. Not Ramos. I want to end up on the good side of herstory. I follow the goddess now. And you cannot have aussie darcy guide me.


Well I don't remember Nadal yelling or demanding an apology or getting in his face or carrying it on for multiple change overs.

Done from the chair while sitting without yelling. Though it was in Spanish, no?


Hall of Fame
Overwhelming majority is with her. Check the world media coverage.
The chair umpire has made it possible for the world to see the double standards and may have triggered the much needed debate to fix what's wrong with the system.
How many other players berate and namecall an umpire on consecutive changeovers like that, after having 2 (legitimate) code violations already?

Not smart...
Spiritual. Awareness? What? That is dead now. I am on my her-ney. This is real. Anything is real if you identify it as real, man! I mean, person. Herstory will be kind to serena. Not Ramos. I want to end up on the good side of herstory. I follow the goddess now. And you cannot have aussie darcy guide me.
Is it true that Carlos didn't get a medal? Hopefully they present it to him at a public ceremony in Lisbon.


Hall of Fame
Umpires have been called much more in lesser games and maintained their cool, because they are generally more mature.

Now if you're saying that those umpires were too lenient, that's fine. Then let's have an uniform rule where every player, no matter how big or small, knows that the first altercation they get into with an umpire, no matter how innocuous the words used, results in an instant game conduct. I'd be fine with that. When rules are selectively and randomly enforced, it doesn't benefit anyone.
I don’t agree with you.

Ya we are all getting to the end game here and ignoring the beginning. Its like well that guy broke that guys face but lets ignore the fact that he was grabbing his ladies butt all night and laughing at him. The guy punched the other dude in the face. Thats all that matters right? No nuance no, bs call for coaching, no huge moment in a gs final, no nothing.
The Coach admitted he was coaching! How’s that BS again?

You got that backwards...Serena started it, lost her cool, and went too far...

her coach got caught coaching

She destroyed her racquet

She let it get out of hand...

Is their no Onus on the “greatest female player of all time?”

Does she not know the what the Code of Conduct requires?



New User
And that for me is where the real issue lies is in the third call. I think that the referee and supervisor review everything and decide if this was clearly verbal abuse, which I honestly feel it was not, not in the grand scheme of things.

The issue is that there are to many inconsistencies when it comes to calls. I'm not going to say that Serena would have won. I think Osaka would have still beat her. But I think we can at least agree that it did affect the match
You cross a very clear line when you question an official's ethics - in any sport. Try this in a rugby match and you're sent off. It's a sure yellow in a soccer game. Baseball ump will eject you. He took a lot from her. He took some after the point penalty itself and then during the changeover. Calling him a thief calls into question his impartiality and you just do not do that.


Talk Tennis Guru
From the article:
"We will never know whether young Osaka really won the 2018 U.S. Open or had it handed to her by a man who was going to make Serena Williams feel his power"

Literally grinning with glee right now at this C-rate journalist's salt at Serena losing, made even better by the fact that she thinks it's because of a MAN. :D
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You’re a victim?

I guess you have to apologise to me for being a victim. You also have the right to verbally abuse me and threaten me.

Undeserved sympathy from mainstream media, social justice tragics, and PC former pros will arrive on Monday. Just make sure you’re up for the UPS man at 8am.

Edit: Oops did I just assume that UPS will send a man? Guess I’m sexist and transphobic. Let me know when you’d like that apology.
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Bionic Poster
There is nothing to write about "the power of Serena" in this final. She was overpowered and outplayed by a teen, and couldn't handle the situation...
Simple as that.
Agree, this time Serena was the one getting overpowered by youthful power of Osaka. and Osaka handled Serena's power with ease and that was really bothering Serena all night. and she finally became unraveled
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Hall of Fame
He went out of his way to involve himself in the match. She freaked out but no way there should have been a coaching penalty. We all see the camera angles all the time. Coaches coach all the time, most of them can't help it. Issuing a warning for that is absurd. The racket smash is justified, we all know that rule. Issuing a verbal abuse warning for calling him a thief? That's weakness on his part. I've seen and heard much worse on both tours. Then again, so have you, you just don't care for Serena so there's really no sense in trying to make a realistic argument. I will say that I do feel badly for Osaka having her first slam overshadowed by all of that. She played incredible. You NEVER see anyone hit Serena off the court like that. Not Kerber, Sharapova, Mugaruza, none of them. Osaka played well physically and mentally. Too bad no one will be talking about that tomorrow.

I noticed Serena looking to her box more than usual in the match...markedly more than usual..leading up to the Coaching Code Violation. Anyone else?


New User
Well watching the video it’s more about that she felt the coaching aspect was an incorrect assumption. And for a thumbs up that is so minute when there are far worse known coaching scenarios going on. And I don’t blame her for venting. She should’ve tapered it off and not been so adamnet for an apology she has to know he isn’t going to say sorry after the fact and in that moment.
She wasn't penalized for venting. She's allowed to vent. She was penalized for calling him a thief at the end of all the venting.

mental midget

Hall of Fame
as for the coaching violation...serena contended she didn't see anything. but she began her defense of the situation by describing it as a thumbs-up from her coach: "if he gives me a thumbs up, he's telling me to come on...i understand why you would have thought that was coaching..."

how do you interpret and qualify something you didn't even see? imo if you didn't see anything wouldn't your line of defense sound something more along the lines of, "what? what just happened? what are you talking about?"


Bionic Poster
At U.S. Open, power of Serena Williams and Naomi Osaka is overshadowed by an umpire’s power play
by Sally Jenkins,
The Washington Post

What any clear, hate-free mind witnessed:

Key point #1:

Irrefutable truth. As I--and anyone who followed the sport more than the ages of certain TWW members, Serena did not do anything different than innumerable players I tennis history. Sorry Hooded Haters, but her reaction is nothing compared to outbursts from Nastase, McEnroe, Connors cursing out anyone in sight with McEnroe's violent behavior injuring a fan), cursing out umpires and fans like Sharapova, Jim Courier violently shaking the chair umpire (nearly causing him to be pitched from the seat), or the unforgivable racist tirade against James Blake and a linesperson who happened to be the "wrong" color by the vile Lleyton Hewitt (who should have been banned from the sport for his attack...but was not). Nowhere near yesterday's incident, no matter how much you want it to be that way. So for Ramos to effectively shift the course of a majors final strongly suggests he either hates Williams (for any number of despicable reasons), or as the article points out, he could not stand a woman asserting her rightful opinion to him. Take your pick.

Key point #2:

Of all players in history--female or male to not need on-court coaching, that would be Serena. You do not reach her kind of success by having constant whispers in your ears; a player faces some new and some familiar opponents at any turn, and there's no way to take all of their possible reactons or strategies into consideration enough that it would matter--unless one is a low-skilled player (I will leave them nameless for now). Moreover, there's more than enough players in the WTA and ATP who do receive on-court coaching, but how often are they being penalized?

Key point #3:

So, let's see...Nadal threatening Ramos' job security (and the threat meant exactly that) was less egregious than "You're a thief?" Bullsh*t--so once again, it all goes back to what can only be Ramos' motivations / reactions, and by comparison, he barely slapped Nadal on the wrist for a greater, personal threat to his livelihood.

Key point #4:

If was a thief--his sticky fingers were motivated by sickening beliefs. I will let the Serena haters / Ramos defenders try to spin that anyway they can, as failed a mission that will be.
I don' think that was a power play by Ramos. I think he just got really sick and tired of Serena verbally abusing him all of 2nd set and he wanted to shut her up somehow and probably thought "Oh this will shut her up and gave her game penalty" but didn't think of the consenquences it will have on the match.


Ramos has had run-ins with a lot of players over the years tbf. Murray, Novak, Nadal, Kyrgios (OK, Kyrgios has run-ins with everyone....).

He does have a history of being fairly strict. For instance, Nadal normally never gets time violations, far as I know, but Ramos gave him one anyway. So slapping a coaching violation whereas someone else might not isn't out of character for him.

I do think he made a mistake with the game penalty and I also think he could've done more to try and defuse the initial kerfuffle, but she definitely made her share of mistakes yesterday unfortunately.


Hall of Fame
Hey man, it’s quite easy to shake off a coaching warning. It doesn’t have any impact on the match

Don’t destroy your racquet and continue to berate him when you’re skating on thin ice
Thank you! That's it!
Like Nadal when he gets his time violations, you just know he wants to violently bite some ballkid on the face (like he did at the AO that time) but he keeps it together and just goes on with the match.

It was serena's choice to unravel, the umpire had no part in her CHOICE to just keep spazzing out. It's all on her .
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