How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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Djokodal Fan

Hall of Fame
He should have been a part of the ceremony. Also he should also be allowed to explain his stance.

He should have been asked if he has a daughter too, if so may be he fought for her right too. Who knows?!
 

Otacon

Hall of Fame
I meant global coverage from New York to LA. Not foreign countries like Britain and France - I'm sure they would rather support one of their own Ramos the chair umpire. No surprise there. People from foreign countries don't like American sporting heros and their generosity and other great human qualities.
Carlos Ramos is a personification of the unfair advantage they exercise.
Absolute nonsense !
 
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Azure

G.O.A.T.
Those statements are very generalizing, but there is an element of truth to them. For example "men shouldn't cry" because it's seen as a sign of weakness. Wheras women do sometimes cry and a good partner will let them do so and support her etc.

Men and women have differences, different skills, different emotional needs. A good couple understands that and works with them, no matter what feminists say. Like i suck at cooking so it's usually better if my gf does that, but i can support her in other ways :)
Well men shouldn't cry is something forced by society so if a boy is in pain he does not tell it. This can have serious repurcussions because what if the child is being abused?

I agree on the whole. Men and women complement each other in society. Each individual is adept at something.
 

Firstservingman

Talk Tennis Guru
Problem is, some umpires are sticklers for the rules and some give leeway to the athletes. When this is the situation, they open themselves to criticism. Serena got arrested for driving 57 mph in a 55 mph area. I step back and say, "use your common sense, Carlos."
That is true. But that is equally true for the men. For instance, Ramos has given Nadal penalties, and rightly so, while other umpires never have.
 

VaporDude95

Banned
"I bet you half my stuff that I'll love you forever" :D

That's not to say that I personally think it's never a good idea. It just takes a very specific kind of partner to make that bet worthwhile.
Exactly, but I cannot seem to think like that haha.

I will always see it purely as a financial investment. It’s just the way I think. Even if I meet a woman and we match perfectly, I still will not do it. It’s just the way I am. Prenups don’t even hold up anymore. I’m out lol.
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
Mo Lahyani would've gotten down from his chair and give Serena his own coaching. Where was the Tournament Ref to give him the penalty?

There's really no use for any players to request tournament Ref - afaik, a Ref never sides with the player. Coaching is still wrong - it's the current rule, but just be fair and don't dance around the Lahyani incident as if he did nothing wrong. Be fair and consistent.
 

Jontyg

Rookie
The disgusting media cheered her after her press conference...pathetic..this was just after someone in the press asked Serena what kind of teachable moment this is for her daughter when she grows up...her response was basically just fight for your rights..nothing about teaching her not to berate the umpire...so even after all the emotions had died down and the adrenaline had stop pumping...she still believe she did absolutely nothing wrong...there you go...
 

Ginger ninja

Semi-Pro
He coached, by acknowledging the thumbs up bit, she clearly saw him - for a pro tennis player with their coaching relationship, there can be no doubt she understood the message. By a strange coincidence, she started going in to net almost immediately after.
She is a great player, but also a liar and a diva.
She ruined osaka’s moment and should be thoroughly ashamed, as should the N.Y. crowd.
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
I can’t wait until Nike pairs her up with Colin for new ad campaigns.

Blacks are getting royally scrood so bad in this country. Time for change. Time to act. Time to get mo’ money.

She has a daughter.
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
"Several things went very wrong during the @usopen Women’s Finals today. Coaching on every point should be allowed in tennis. It isn’t, and as a result, a player was penalized for the actions of her coach. This should not happen. When a woman is emotional, she’s “hysterical” and she’s penalized for it. When a man does the same, he’s “outspoken” & and there are no repercussions. Thank you, @serenawilliams, for calling out this double standard. More voices are needed to do the same."

https://twitter.com/BillieJeanKing/status/1038613108976168960

https://twitter.com/BillieJeanKing/status/1038613218296569856
Since Serena was fighting for women’s rights while also playing the US Open final, should she have received more prize money?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yeah, sure, like those two things have got anything to do with each other. Shame on you!

Ramos is a hero and should be given a bonus for good officiating.

He stood up to a bully who is used to getting her way because of her fame and intimidation. Well done Carlos.

He should be the one on the face of Nike ads for standing for what you believe in the face of adversity.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
I'm begining to think Serena using the word "thief" is unfortunate, because it takes away how abusing her entire tirade against Ramos truly was:


"You will never ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar."

And this is not the full extent of it if I remember correctly, it started before the changeover. It's not like Serena merely said "thief" to Ramos and he issued the warning there and then.
Yes - her threat that he would never umpire another one of her matches is avsoultely abhorrent. Ramos’ entire livelihood/career has been to get to this point where he regularly umpires on show courts and Serena threatened that on live TV. She has a history of threatening ppl but then cries that she’s been victimized. What a disgusting representation of the top female star in a sport who should be doing everything she can to be role model.
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
Everyone knows this rule too.

Man, I wonder how many people have I seen defening Rafa like this when he's gotten a code violation for coaching (yeah that's right, men get them too).... but hey, maybe if he then broke a racket to get a point penalty and then cried and berated and insulted the ump for 15 minutes people would defend him lol
Exactly. Say what you want about Nadal and coaching, but if he gets a code violation, you can be damn sure that he’s not going to throw a tantrum. He never breaks a racquet to begin with, but I’d bet my life that he’d never break one after getting a code violation
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
After watching the match over again... I'm in the camp that thinks this was orchestrated. Serena felt the match slipping to an opponent who simply was not going to back down. Better to lose under controversy and play the victim than get her *** whooped in straight sets.

Certainly a fierce competitor with somewhat of a mercurial personality but after a 24 year career, 39 Major championships, motherhood, age, maturity, etc... to continue to push after the 2nd violation? Even for Serena it doesn't show maturity and professionalism. That said... I don't think she was expecting the 3rd violation and game penalty. Was it sexism? maybe? but to determine that we need look at the cases where men (and women) have "abused" officials.... Serena doesn't necessarily have a spotless history here.

Ramos on his part could have said "Serena... if you continue like this, I'll be forced to give you a 3rd violation which is a game penalty"...

Just an ugly day for Tennis altogether... but the true victim is Naomi.

I'm not even going to dissect the Katrina Adams comment...

 

gopokes

Rookie
I guess if you look at sexism and racism as a spectrum, we're all probably guilty to one degree or another depending on the situation. The feelings and reactions we have toward others on the basis of sex or race are known only to us, and even we may not be overtly aware of our 'blind spots'. So would Ramos have given the same infractions to Fed or Rafa in the same situation? Only he knows, and perhaps even he couldn't know until the situation arose. Very few people identify as sexist or racist, yet very few folks would deny that both exist. :) I'm not really defending Serena, but I am supporting the notion that sexism may have been in play here. It's a great conversation and I'm grateful to the OP for starting it.
 

Your Hero

Professional
Men are horrible creatures. I should know, I'm a man. Every night I pay
a hooker to tell me that. "Say it like you mean it!" Yes, we are most
foul. We look at Serena and her baby and wonder which one's the mother
and which one's the baby.
 

JoelDali

G.O.A.T.
Just imagine Pam Shriver’s solitary womb, spraying feminine hygiene gas into the crowd as she lays on her back speaking truth and bearing witness to the future of Serena’s total domination of the WTA.
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
The man was coaching and the woman gets penalised by a man.

Billy might be boiling mad but she's right.
The sex of the umpire, coach and player doesn't matter here, surely it's the rule which is wrong, so if a coach is coaching in a match, they are removed form the box maybe instead of the player getting penalised. It could as well have been a female coach, a male player and a female umpire
 

Crisstti

Legend
I'm not telling you, that you have no idea what you're talking about. We have two different views on what qualifies as something serious enough to be verbal abuse. And I was very professional in how I said it. I mean maybe you had heard a threat or swear that I hadn't, in which case I would have agreed with everyone.

I did hear her say you won't be the umpire at any of mine again. But other players have done this and not be given a warning. And I still don't believe this to be enough. Someone posted under one of the other headings a video showing Nadal going off on the umpire saying he's never umpire at one of his games again. He had two warnings already for time violations. And he didn't get one for abuse
1. Warnings for time violations work different. You don't lose a point for them, you lose a first serve.
2. Tons of players have asked that a certain umpire doesn't umpire their matches. And it wasn't why Serena was given the third code violation. It was because she was screaming at him and berating him for 15 minutes, and called him a thief.
 

Boom-Boom

Hall of Fame
- slowing down surface without telling anyone in advance to favour US players as acknowledged by the officials (!)
- roof superstructure preventing any air circulation
- not suspending Layahni
- excluding Carlos Ramos from the women’s final ceremony
- lame statement implying they couldn’t do anything Ramos decision on game penalty
- brainless crowd supporting Serena

a JOKE of a tournament indeed :rolleyes: they had everything WRONG from start to Finnish
 
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