How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
Status
Not open for further replies.

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Billie Jean King is talking nonsense. Carlos Ramos has a history of enforcing the rules by the letter. He has given code violations to numerous men for being "emotional". For instance:
  • Djokovic was penalised by Ramos for unsportsmanlike conduct after yelling at the French Open in 2017.
  • At the 2016 French Open, Nick Kyrgios was given a code violation by Ramos for yelling at a ball boy.
  • Ramos gave Andy Murray code violation for saying "stupid umpiring" at the 2016 Olympics.
http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/umpire-carlos-ramos-history-code-violations-serena-williams/463180
good article. The Murray incident is especially relevant. Of course Murray had a little complain about being misheard and got on with it, had that been Serena she'd then explode and make matters worse.

Of course facts won't get in the way of Jean King and others who are dead set on the sexism angle
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
 

Fairhit

Professional
This thread surely demonstrates the imperious need of a dislike button.

I don't understand why people defend Serena based on the notion that in other games they get away with the same behavior? Is it right to cheat because someone else is cheating and it makes you a victim if you get caught because the other cheaters never get caught?

Ramos did everything right, it doesn't matter if other umpires don't or even if himself doesn't in another game, in this one he performed according to rules, he owes no apologies to anyone.

It's sad that Serena try to rob Osaka from her crowning tennis achievement, from now on it'll be the slam where Serena got into yet another fight with the umpire and not the slam that saw Osaka destroy Williams fair and square.

Another thing, the umpire is not there to ensure there's a good show, or that it's entertaining, he's there to enforce the rules and that's what he did, to blame here is Serena with her childish behavior, not Ramos for not allowing her to try and intimidate him and let her play like she owns the freaking sport, he owes no one a good match, he only owes us and the players a level playing field for both players and that's what he did, if he had let pass the coaching warning or the verbal abuse it would have been against Osaka.
 

VaporDude95

Banned
Carlos SHOULD have been part of the ceremony -- perhaps Serena autographing each of his balls and then hitting them up into the crowd.
A female advocating for violence against a man, just because he held another female accountable for her actions?

Why, I never... :rolleyes:
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
It’s a legitimate complaint. Code violations are rarely given for coaching and it is common knowledge it happens all the time.

What would Rafa fans have been saying if he was called for that during the AO17 final against Federer?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You know perfectly well what i was talking about.

You compared the fate of a person protesting black deaths with a guy making umpiring decisions.

You are the only classless person here.

No idea what you're talking about but doesn't surprise me you are defending this classless person.

Your hobby is trying to come to the defense of faultless damsels like Sharadoper and now Serena apparently.
 

Lozo1016

Semi-Pro
Ramos is a hero and should be given a bonus for good officiating.

He stood up to a bully who is used to getting her way because of her fame and intimidation. Well done Carlos.

He should be the one on the face of Nike ads for standing for what you believe in the face of adversity.
Except Ramos is the bully in this situation.
 

Maestroesque

Professional
Why would you want on court coaching? doesn't that ruin the whole idea of the sport? You do all your coaching and work out your tactics beforehand and before the match starts, once you're in the game you're on your own and you should figure out how to win yourself. Osaka won fair and square, Serena couldn't figure out her opponent and instead of losing gracefully she decided to try and make it all about herself.
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Columnist Sally Jenkins: Chair umpire Carlos Ramos "took what began as a minor infraction and turned it into one of the nastiest and most emotional controversies in the history of tennis, all because he couldn’t take a woman speaking sharply to him."

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1038776058647130112
Yeah ignore facts mate, it makes you look clever. He gave a code violation to Murray for saying "stupid umpiring" Now I know Murray second serves like a girl, but he is in fact a man
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
ESPN did not expect that things would turn out the way it did at that time.
ESPN thought they will increase their ratings with that interview and making the topic about Serena's comeback


The interview was before the racket abuse. If they knew the day will turn out the way it did, they would not have interviewed Patrick.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
Overwhelming majority is with her. Check the world media coverage.
The chair umpire has made it possible for the world to see the double standards and may have triggered the much needed debate to fix what's wrong with the system.
Do you think it's OK to berate an umpire for several minutes?
 
C

Charlie

Guest
No, Serena just embarrassed herself big time, and it left me a bit red faced since as an American I initially wanted her to win and write Grand Slam history. In the end I am glad Ramos decided to not be even a little bit lenient.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Exactly. Say what you want about Nadal and coaching, but if he gets a code violation, you can be damn sure that he’s not going to throw a tantrum. He never breaks a racquet to begin with, but I’d bet my life that he’d never break one after getting a code violation
Hell, not even Roddick would!. Anyone has that video of him asking the umpire if he had given him a code violation, before proceeding to break his racket?.
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
It’s a legitimate complaint. Code violations are rarely given for coaching and it is common knowledge it happens all the time.

What would Rafa fans have been saying if he was called for that during the AO17 final against Federer?
If that happened Rafa might have hot discussion with an umpire maybe got angry as well but he wouldnt broke his racquet nor call an umpire thief and liar.
 

Tshooter

Legend
I mean, I didn't say otherwise, did I? It's a strict liability rule, I'm ok with that.
Foot Fault is a S.L. Rule. Coaching is not explaining some of the controversy. And there should never be a S.L. rule I’m which someone other then the player can result in the player losing a point.

How about instead the first time is a warning and a second time the coach must leave the match and watxh from the lounge ?
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
Where's the insult towards the umpire? I'll wait.
 
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
To be fair the umpire let Delpo to take a forever with those challenges
 

SuperSpinner

Semi-Pro
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
Well Roger didn't call the ump any names.
 

VaporDude95

Banned
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
Hey I’ve been wondering where you’ve been. Federer got fined to heck after that match, he didn’t smash a racquet and he wasn’t getting coached from the sidelines.

Funny that you failed to point that out. Just don’t let facts get in the way of your whiteknighting.
 

Sudacafan

Talk Tennis Guru
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
Two wrongs don’t make one right.
 

George Turner

Hall of Fame
Well men shouldn't cry is something forced by society so if a boy is in pain he does not tell it. This can have serious repurcussions because what if the child is being abused?

I agree on the whole. Men and women complement each other in society. Each individual is adept at something.
From my experience, showing too much emotion as a guy turns women off. I feel women have a lot of emotional s**t of their own to deal with and too much from a guy is going to be too much for them.

If a boy cries in school he will most likely end up getting bullied, cos they're seen as weak and an easy target. I myself was on the receiving end of that. That sort of thing simply reinforces the notion that "men don't cry." Perhaps it's wrong, but this is how it is.

Since Serena was fighting for women’s rights while also playing the US Open final, should she have received more prize money?
Yes, yes, yes!!!

If not, it's blatant sexism.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Hey I’ve been wondering where you’ve been. Federer got fined to heck after that match, he didn’t smash a racquet and he wasn’t getting coached from the sidelines.

Funny that you failed to point that out. Just don’t let facts get in the way of your whiteknighting.
Not to mention that Del Potro did take 20 seconds+ before deciding to challenge several times. Fed had a point, he just didn't express it in the healthiest of ways. And he didn't insult the umpire.
 

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
You know perfectly well what i was talking about.

You compared the fate of a person protesting black deaths with a guy making umpiring decisions.

You are the only classless person here.
I see what you're saying. I wasn't making any commentary on Kapernick. I'll rephrase by saying Ramos deserves to be a face in the campaign which happens to include Kapernick. He stood up to a screaming bully and hostile crowd doing what he believed was right. For that he deserves praise.
 

kaiotic

Rookie
It’s a legitimate complaint. Code violations are rarely given for coaching and it is common knowledge it happens all the time.

What would Rafa fans have been saying if he was called for that during the AO17 final against Federer?
Yeah I agree that some male players should get Called out. But I think there is progress evidenced by the Tennis shot clock. A positive step towards curtailing the Time abuses by players. Now if we could lower the volume of the likes of shriekapova. And reinstitute real, good old fashioned sincere hand shakes at the end of the match.

With the way things are going, players will eventually be doing fist pumps.
 

Crisstti

Legend
In fact I think it would be unfair if players NEVER got code violations for coaching, and then suddenly Serena got one. It wouldn't be OK because it wouldn't be an even and fair enforcement of the rules. But that is not the case. Warnings for coaching are issued regularly. No, not every time it happens, but then the umpire cannot be looking at the coach all the time.
 

Chicharito

Hall of Fame
In the 2009 US Open men’s final Roger Federer said
‘Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a s***’

Resulting in...nothing. Then, having gotten that out of his system, he got up from his chair and broke Del Potro to win the 3rd set.

Serena says the word thief and gets a game penalty. Double standards are 100% there. I hate what she did but the punishment on these things are so poorly handed out.
Calling the umpire a thief is far worse. Completely attacking his integrity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top