How does Serena's behavior during USO Final compare to McEnroe during 1990 AO?

  • Serena's behavior was worse

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • McEnroe's behavior was worse

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Both behaved about the same

    Votes: 25 16.6%

  • Total voters
    151
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PT280 Fan

Rookie
Wow what a thread, 75 pages and still going. In regards to your initial question, Nastasse was by far the worst and would lie, cheat or steal to win a match, followed by Connors who like Serena used a lot of gamesmanship in his matches. You know on second thought, I do believe that Johnny Mac was just as bad as Connors or Serena in that he would intimidate linespeople (before there was Cyclops) to get favorable calls - and he did get preferential treatment too. I just don't remember him being quite as foul mouthed or threatening to the officials and lines people.
 

skyline

Legend
St. Bartleby, the ump never accused HER of cheating, he said her coach gave illegal coaching. Her highness denied doing something she was never accused of--me thinks she protested WAY too much! Her coach admitted to doing it. Her highness insults the tennis world if she denies coaching does not exist--it does--it's just a matter of hiring a coach who is better at not being obvious about it and being caught--welcome to the world of sports--saints get along better in heaven or the Vatican.
I didn't see him tell her that it was about Patrick alone. She took it as being about them both, and I don't remember him counteracting that in any way. Which is fine, if he did think it was both of them doing it, but in that case it's not hard to see why she felt compelled to defend herself.

Venus defended herself against Ramos too at FO2016 under similar circumstances, and she's not known for landing in incidents.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I do realise there is a difference, but given that she receives the penalty, and not the coach, it functions as an accusation of cheating by her.

The coach admitted doing it, yes, on the basis that it is condoned practice, if not legal, and he also denied that she saw or acted on his advice.

As I said elsewhere, the sanction for coaching should be a request from the umpire for the removal of the coach from the arena on change of ends.

St. Bartleby, the ump never accused HER of cheating, he said her coach gave illegal coaching. Her highness denied doing something she was never accused of--me thinks she protested WAY too much!. Her coach admitted to doing it. Her highness insults the tennis world if she denies coaching does not exist--it does--it's just a matter of hiring a coach who is better at not being obvious about it and being caught--welcome to the world of sports--saints get along better in heaven or the Vatican.
 

max

Legend
Really? I think Serena could have said that Naomi substantially outplayed her by winning 11 games to Serena's 6 games, not counting the game that was awarded to Osaka.
Excellent point and something even those few Serena supporters can't forget or dissimulate.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
Heaven forbid a chair umpire DO HIS JOB. He was right in this instance with Novak, if all the chair umpires did their job the way he does his we wouldn't have academy award worthy performances during tennis matches anymore.
what happended here? I dont understand.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
I agree with that but I guess it's a lot messier. Security would have to be called to have the person removed, game would have to stop as everyone waits for the coach to exit, etc.
This is not a Davis cup. Coaches should be prohibited from being present in the stadium.
 
Serena Williams is an extremely unlikable person in real life

With all of this ongoing drama involving Serena at the US Open, I thought that it would be appropriate to share my personal experiences with her because I feel like many people are seeing this 'real' side of her for the first time.


I was an Assistant to the Tournament Director (insert Dwight Schrute joke here) at an event that Serena played at. My interactions with her were primarily at a children's event, for a charity dinner, and dealing with the tournament volunteers.

  1. The children's event brought a number of kids from poorer parts of the city to the tennis center to introduce them to Serena. Throughout the event, she acted like she was too good for the kids. Barely paid attention while tossing balls to them, and refused to take pictures with any of the children or their families. She left halfway through the event's scheduled time. Her "team" told us it was because she was "preparing" for her match the next day, but TMZ photographs told us a different story of where she went.
  2. The charity dinner was run by a local group who uses the money to support educational causes. They were a nice group of people to work with and were really excited to get Serena to attend. Guess who showed up and did not talk to anyone else, except for who she arrived with? Donors who had paid thousands of dollars for a table at the event were pissed at the organizers (who I felt so bad for) because they paid to essentially watch Serena eat dinner.
  3. I was responsible for helping coordinate volunteers. I had an older lady who had been assigned to checking ID badges at the player's entrance. She was doing this as a favor for someone at the tournament because we were short-staffed that day, and knew nothing about tennis. When Serena arrived, she asked her very politely for her ID badge. Apparently Serena had left it somewhere (car, hotel, who knows) and proceeded to bring this lovely lady to tears because the volunteer was doing her job and wouldn't let her in without the ID badge. I came to know of this because in the end, security had to be called and this volunteer left immediately afterwards because of how poorly she was treated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/9echxs/serena_williams_is_an_extremely_unlikable_person/?st=jlvhcvq8&sh=a7b91344
Know of at least two similar stories from people who were there firsthand (presumingly different events than described above-well definitely different events because the scenario was different). I also know a story of Venus that is directly the opposite (nice person!). It's hard to hide who you are on the court--it's all pretty exposed--if you are paying attention. These stories just back up what some of us have seen on the court, in the media interviews and ways she conducts herself. Of course, it's not all black or white. But on a spectrum, she probably is on the not nice end. I think sometimes fans confuse competitive success with wanting to stand behind a player, regardless of what they do. I think for some people the way they conduct themselves all around is a part of who they choose to support and get behind. ps does anyone find it funny that the link comes from reddit?
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
Mouratoglou was clearly making an obscene gesture to the supermodel in the front row.
That's really what it looked like to me the first time I saw that gesture. Is it a French thing?

Let me try this signal at my next USTA match to signal my teammates to go to the net.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
I swear to God people have too much freedom and too few problems of their own to care about crap like this.

Social warriors, investing their time in pointless battles.
 

PT280 Fan

Rookie
St. Bartleby, the ump never accused HER of cheating, he said her coach gave illegal coaching. Her highness denied doing something she was never accused of--me thinks she protested WAY too much! Her coach admitted to doing it. Her highness insults the intelligence and credulity of the tennis world if she denies coaching does not exist--it does--it's just a matter of hiring a coach who is adept at not being obvious about it and getting caught--welcome to the world of sports--saints get along better in heaven or in the Vatican.
The fact is that she's a skilled manipulator. She knew that by changing the tenor of the conversation, being coached (an infraction by a coach) to "don't accuse me of cheating", she would have the upper hand. Moreover, the whole argument was based on a LIE to begin with - "he was giving me the thumbs up" makes gesture. Moritaugulu later unwittingly refuted that by admitting that yes he was coaching as does everyone else. And of course, Serena was quick to change the nature of her grievance (after the match) from being wrongfully accused, to being discriminated against (when everyone else supposedly gets away with it), because she's a woman (black woman is the implied message).

PS She probably won't lose any sponsors over this, but her marketability may have taken a hit. In any event, her Chase commercial which had run at a high frequency through the course of the open, only ran maybe one or two times on Sunday during the Women's Doubles final and the Men's Singles final (I saw it one time but I couldn't sit through the entire Men's final). And the other one with Nicki Minaj saying "Now watch the Queen conquer" didn't run at all that I could see. So glad she lost.

 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This kind of coaching has no effect on the match and legalised WTA coaching seems to take the form of coaches mouthing platitudes and players ignoring what's being said.

As I said before, the coach should be removed from the arena at the change of ends if coaching is detected. Let the punishment fit the crime, as G&S would have it.

That's really what it looked like to me the first time I saw that gesture. Is it a French thing?

Let me try this signal at my next USTA match to signal my teammates to go to the net.
 

Matheson

Rookie
This kind of coaching has no effect on the match and legalised WTA coaching seems to take the form of coaches mouthing platitudes and players ignoring what's being said.

As I said before, the coach should be removed from the arena at the change of ends if coaching is detected. Let the punishment fit the crime, as G&S would have it.
So Bartelby, do you believe me now that maybe your hero Serena isn't such a perfect role model? I called it months ago, but you, much like Serena, pulled the "racist" card when I claimed she was a bad sport.

Would you call what she did here bad sportsmanlike? Or is everyone here criticising her just a bunch of racists too?
 

kaiotic

Rookie
This really does have to be the stupidest line I've seen repeated ad nauseum today.

By "unnecessarily inject" you mean do their job and enforce the rules. :D
Nah, they should just be allowed to do whatever they want, right? He should have just sat there and be abused repeatedly by her and done nothing lest he, the officiating umpire, "inject" himself into the match?

Rubbish, and you know it. He's there to do his job, and he did it.
Thai is what j Mac was saying too during the men’s final preview. Why does he Inject himself into the game. So these idiots should expect the chair umpire to just sit there and take the rants and smile? What utter nonsense. And mac was saying how Ramos should have shown Serena more respect. Huh!? STFU already. Should he have bent over so Serena could shove a tennis ball down somewhere?

Pat Mac was a little more objective but still a Serena backer. Chris every definitely acknowledged it was ultimately Serena’s doing.
 
Wow what a thread, 75 pages and still going. In regards to your initial question, Nastasse was by far the worst and would lie, cheat or steal to win a match, followed by Connors who like Serena used a lot of gamesmanship in his matches. You know on second thought, I do believe that Johnny Mac was just as bad as Connors or Serena in that he would intimidate linespeople (before there was Cyclops) to get favorable calls - and he did get preferential treatment too. I just don't remember him being quite as foul mouthed or threatening to the officials and lines people.
Yes the terrible three. Nastasse at least had a sense of humor and could be very entertaining at times.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I dislike Williams as a person and I am not an American so the first thing that strikes the outside observer is that the idea that it is lack of 'sportsmanship' that disturbs people about Williams is patently absurd.

So Bartelby, do you believe me now that maybe your hero Serena isn't such a perfect role model? I called it months ago, but you, much like Serena, pulled the "racist" card when I claimed she was a bad sport.

Would you call what she did here bad sportsmanlike? Or is everyone here criticising her just a bunch of racists too?
 
"Men do it all the time"? Isn't that such a common argument ? Typical street level discussion with cops upon receiving a ticket (So many people are driving past 40mph). This is a grand slam tennis final, for gods sake. And she is a 23 slam champion, which is what she is representing on the court, not a mother. There are literally a billion mothers out there in the world who would have much worse things to deal with and don't need a celebrity endorsement. Who has given her the rights to be a spokesperson for women ?
And what about the dignity, character and rights of the umpire ? Doesn't she call them to question with her thief and liar tirade ? Whatever the popular sentiment, there is no way this is acceptable.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
That chip on your shoulder keeps growing, so I guess university is having no effect on your reasoning.

Well, it is racism, because the people who are often falsely accused are accused primarily because they’re white.

A YouTube commenter summed it up perfectly:

Black opponent, Hispanic judge —> white man’s fault
 

Service Ace

Hall of Fame
Well, it is racism, because the people who are often falsely accused are accused primarily because they’re white.

A YouTube commenter summed it up perfectly:

Black opponent, Hispanic judge —> white man’s fault
No, you're just making broad assumptions to justify this counter movement against political correctness and protected class empowerment that is sweeping this country. I guess that makes you the real racist according to your logic :rolleyes:
 
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