tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
You just answered yourself.
Serena Williams
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Nadal threatened Ramos' livelihood--in other words, he was using the power he knows he possesses in the sport against Ramos. That was beyond more than enough and something that deserved more than what Nadal received, according to the little "I love Ramos" group of Talk Tennis. His trying to force his will on Serena for whatever reason was outrageous. Since others note he's had run-ins with other players, perhaps Nadal was right in making his threat.
Then you were not watching the match.
You have just invalidated anything you have to say. This lead to the conclusion if the article was from the one-sided National Review, or Breitbart, or perhaps Trump' (or one of his Russian handlers) you would sing their praises.
Then he is a problem, but as the article so clearly explains, he escalated the entire incident.
He did not, which says what about his treatment of Serena? If he has never escalated an issue to this degree---even against Nadal who threatened his job, then what are his motives? A weak man who tried--and failed--to save face in front of a crowd? Or something else?
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
This place is so predictable 
The rule can’t depend on whether the player took the coaching to heart because that will always be impossible to prove.
Players get warnings they think are unfair. They complain and move on. Nadal got a time violation warning when he felt the returner (Pospisil, I think) asked him to hold up. He didn’t respond by losing his mind.
1HBHNation
Rookie
nananana na ne ne na. thug life bro. ramos. well done sir. I bow to you.
#muchrespect #putthatbiotchinherplace #yousavedtennis #savior
#muchrespect #putthatbiotchinherplace #yousavedtennis #savior
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Sorry I don't understand. Were you a victim of abusive behaviour on a woman's part? I am well aware that the pendulum swings both ways.
Some have noted here that women's tennis is governed by the WTA, and therefore is managed differently than the ATP.
If that's the case here, shouldn't it also be the case concerning Serena's code violations in the US Open Ladies Final? Apologists for her kept saying that she was treated differently than the men would be (not that I agree with that).
If that's the case here, shouldn't it also be the case concerning Serena's code violations in the US Open Ladies Final? Apologists for her kept saying that she was treated differently than the men would be (not that I agree with that).
THESEXPISTOL
Hall of Fame
I don't think soo...
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
LOL I’d forgotten about this incident.
What exactly does she say here? I can’t make it all out. It sounds derogatory for sure!
Zardoz7/12
Hall of Fame
So what is the answer? Men umpiring Male matches and Women umpiring Women's matches? When politics in particular identity politics is inserted into say a sport watch as people go at each others throats, I wish I got paid for being an agitator I guess it pays better than being a music teacher.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Then why stay in it if you find her crazy?
Well, Kyrgios is constantly arguing and he is constantly being called on it. That's exactly the point. Plus, he has matured a lot and he is never (as far as I have seen) malicious.
I don't think what Serena did will bring Western civilization down. But the attempts to justify her very immature behaviour by the US press while accusing the umpire of all mortal sins very well might
My point is that Nick's incidents are quite frequent whereas her last one was 7 years ago. Otherwise, I do agree he's not malicious, that's partially why I like Nick. I'm not sure he's maturing though - I thought he was but then he tanked against Borna not too long ago and kind of dashed my hopes as far as that one.
And, yes, she was wrong to defend Patrick. She thought he wasn't coaching her, but he was and he said so. But more than anything, she made the mistake by going back to the incident so much. I thought she made her point very well when she said "I'd rather lose than cheat." Should've stopped at that and this wouldn't have been half the circus it turned into.
I haven't liked Ramos for a while tbh, which also factors into my view of the situation. He just has a way of inserting himself into matches, something Andy Murray called him on at Rio Olympics two years ago.
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Satan strong in here. Whether she was right or wrong (wrong imo) some of you need a mirror, FAST.
Crisstti
Legend
That's hardly "global" coverage hehe.
So the US press is supporting her. The press there is pathetic, we know that already.
ESPN here has been fair and called her behaviour clearly unsportsmanlike.
1HBHNation
Rookie
she wont. a crook will always be a crook when given the chance. a thug , always a thug. way to be a thug out there Serena. Such class you show to young kids everywhere.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Does BJK have a daughter ?
Otacon
Hall of Fame
I disagree, the outrage I'm talking about had no political connotation.
MatsPhilander
Legend
I take offense to herstory. We need to relearn hystory. We have to stop genderising everything. For the sake of gender equality, if you only have one front hole, you need to get another. Alternatively, demand eternal apologies from your parents for not giving you two in the first place. They really did steal a hole from you. And robbed you of the joy of giving birth to a daughter.
I admit, this whole thing is ridiculous. Ludicrous. Arrest the thief! Omg.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
No it didn't. Please. Utter conjecture at best.
--
@Lozo1016 @Bartelby @The others here today whose names I forget at the moment sorry
I'm yet to see any decent argument from the other side today tbh. It all seems to be based on delusions of persecution and discrimination which pretty quickly fall flat under closer scrutiny.
The closest thing I've seen to a rational, unemotional assessment that's critical of the umpire is that the evidence for the initial coaching violation may have been a bit flimsy. After the fact, however, we have learned from Patrick himself that he was indeed coaching and the umpire's instinct was found to be totally correct. So the best you can do is criticize him for being a real stickler for the rules. Grey area at best.
As for the rest of it, a racquet smash is a crystal clear violation and the third violation was based on continued insults and pestering from Serena including a threat made about his job and allegations made against his integrity as an official. Penalizing that kind of behaviour is well within his job description, and the punishment (game penalty) is what the rules explicitly call for in the case of a third violation.
We can argue all day about whether women are kept down by evil men doing this kind of thing all the time, although the men (such as Fognini and Kyrgios) do very clearly get punished regularly for the same things, including by this same umpire:
That's really all there is to it.
George Turner
Hall of Fame
Yes ofc she only cared about her own ego in that situation. I always wonder how people like her can fit their egos inside their head.
But you see she turns it into a woman's rights issue, when all she actually cares about it herself. She plays the victim, sexist card.
That's what I see typical feminists doing unfortunately, certainly where I come from
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
Sooo is this thread about BJK being a moron or are we gonna talk about our relationship issues?
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Yes and we broke up soon afterwards. She did this because she knew I wasn't gonna hit back. If a man did that to me he'd be scooping up the skin from his face from the ground = totally acceptable.
Im a one red flag kinda guy. You do some crazy s**t to me we're done.
sredna42
Hall of Fame
So it's Trump's fault now LOL gods below you can't make this chit up.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Carlos, a sincere thank you for having the guts to stand up and call it like it is!
F
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
No matter which sport we talk about, every commentator essentially says that.
Umpires should never, except in extremis, inject themselves into the story line.
Officiating for moral improvement is for juniors, not grand slam finals.
Umpires should never, except in extremis, inject themselves into the story line.
Officiating for moral improvement is for juniors, not grand slam finals.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
I am sorry this happened to you. None of this is acceptable. No one has a right to hit anyone.
a10best
Hall of Fame
Morataglou was coaching and he admitted it. Chris Evert agrees that he coached too. If any competent person investigated they would see that just a couple points later Serena did exactly what Morataglou signaled/hand gestured for her to do. Move Naomi side to side and bring her in to the net.
Serena said, "He gave me a thumbs up. I don't need coaching and I don't cheat." I agree she doesn't need coaching. But there was no thumbs up. Maybe at an earlier time but not the time he moved his hands & arms side to side and then moved them forward. Why not admit it and move on?
Serena demanded an apology from the umpire. "SAY IT, SAY IT. I want an apology. " she didn't curse but she did truly demand an apology on two separate occasions.
Her focus was to continue on Carlos instead of focusing on an opponent, NAOMI, who was beating her a second time in a year and in straight sets.
She had no answers for Naomi so she focused her anger on something else.
Before all this you could see Serena was about to cry and had agonizing facial expressions of losing.
The umpire is NOT the big reason for her loss. It was the player's actions and coach who caused it. She just lost her serve and got broken a 3rd time with Osaka serving at 4-3. Serena was up 40-15 in that game too. So, she was pissed at that. BLAME,BLAME, BLAME in defeat. Shameful and not something to teach young kids. NO. Ramos did not shift the course of a major no matter what spin you want to put.
I'm also a fan of Sloane, Venus, FAA, Monfis, and Gauff. Serena didn't need to make drama but when she's on the verge of a loss in a USO final she did. Sure Sharapova blames losses on other things too and I don't like her either.
Yes, McEnroe & Connors have said worse but those times were different and they didn't have 2 warnings or a point penalty already taken. Mac probably should have been given a game penalty a number of times. He was a true jerk on the tennis court to fans, umpires, and line judges.
Some of Ryan Harrison and Donaldson are worthy of point & game penalties too.
Racket smashing warning penalties are always called. So is smacking the ball into the crowd. She smashed her racket badly after dropping her serve and the coaching violation prior all justify a point loss. No issue there but Serena did have an issue with it.
Do I think a game penalty should have been given to her? As I understand it, there was no swearing or threat but there was a demand which is intimidation. Since, it's a slam final I'd give her a warning that if she keeps it up I'll have to penalize you a game. I'm not a fan of hers but I'd also understand the cost to the emotional player. That is what happens in today's sports to the stars. Perhaps Mohammad Layhani should have the done the match. However, any top tennis player knows when you have a point penalty already assessed, and you continue to directly verbally abuse the official even more (what Ramos said she did), a game penalty is next .
Maybe in a final, there should be a second umpire near the chair to overhear what players say. They discuss if a game penalty is applicable. I'm sure we'll hear the entire tirade of words Serena and Ramos said.
A sexist? No. I think and hope he wants to keep the sport gentleman and lady-like.
Serena said, "He gave me a thumbs up. I don't need coaching and I don't cheat." I agree she doesn't need coaching. But there was no thumbs up. Maybe at an earlier time but not the time he moved his hands & arms side to side and then moved them forward. Why not admit it and move on?
Serena demanded an apology from the umpire. "SAY IT, SAY IT. I want an apology. " she didn't curse but she did truly demand an apology on two separate occasions.
Her focus was to continue on Carlos instead of focusing on an opponent, NAOMI, who was beating her a second time in a year and in straight sets.
She had no answers for Naomi so she focused her anger on something else.
Before all this you could see Serena was about to cry and had agonizing facial expressions of losing.
The umpire is NOT the big reason for her loss. It was the player's actions and coach who caused it. She just lost her serve and got broken a 3rd time with Osaka serving at 4-3. Serena was up 40-15 in that game too. So, she was pissed at that. BLAME,BLAME, BLAME in defeat. Shameful and not something to teach young kids. NO. Ramos did not shift the course of a major no matter what spin you want to put.
I'm also a fan of Sloane, Venus, FAA, Monfis, and Gauff. Serena didn't need to make drama but when she's on the verge of a loss in a USO final she did. Sure Sharapova blames losses on other things too and I don't like her either.
Yes, McEnroe & Connors have said worse but those times were different and they didn't have 2 warnings or a point penalty already taken. Mac probably should have been given a game penalty a number of times. He was a true jerk on the tennis court to fans, umpires, and line judges.
Some of Ryan Harrison and Donaldson are worthy of point & game penalties too.
Racket smashing warning penalties are always called. So is smacking the ball into the crowd. She smashed her racket badly after dropping her serve and the coaching violation prior all justify a point loss. No issue there but Serena did have an issue with it.
Do I think a game penalty should have been given to her? As I understand it, there was no swearing or threat but there was a demand which is intimidation. Since, it's a slam final I'd give her a warning that if she keeps it up I'll have to penalize you a game. I'm not a fan of hers but I'd also understand the cost to the emotional player. That is what happens in today's sports to the stars. Perhaps Mohammad Layhani should have the done the match. However, any top tennis player knows when you have a point penalty already assessed, and you continue to directly verbally abuse the official even more (what Ramos said she did), a game penalty is next .
Maybe in a final, there should be a second umpire near the chair to overhear what players say. They discuss if a game penalty is applicable. I'm sure we'll hear the entire tirade of words Serena and Ramos said.
A sexist? No. I think and hope he wants to keep the sport gentleman and lady-like.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
I'm not worried about it. I've heard women say crazy things all my life and it doesn't mean anything 99% of the time. If I really thought she was serious I wouldn't talk about it or be with her.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
BJ gets hysterical when she’s emotional
VaporDude95
Banned
Hence why I am never getting married.
I’d rather invest the otherwise wasted money on a nice car and a couple of German shepherds
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Barely registered her attack. No offence but women are horrible fighters
The intentions mattered to me more.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
I really don't know how this incident got this colour to be honest. It has nothing racial or sexist in its entirety.
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
Its not a literal use of the word
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Alright.
It's hard for me to believe that the US media defends behavior like this from their tennis players. And goes so far as to criticize the umpire, who was just doing his job.
This sort of outburst from Serena is why I've never been a fan of hers, especially since 2009 when she threatened to stuff a tennis ball down that poor linewoman's throat. I mean, I don't hate her, but I can't say I'm a fan. I will say that her post-match remarks about it being Osaka's first slam and the crowd booing were classy.
This sort of outburst from Serena is why I've never been a fan of hers, especially since 2009 when she threatened to stuff a tennis ball down that poor linewoman's throat. I mean, I don't hate her, but I can't say I'm a fan. I will say that her post-match remarks about it being Osaka's first slam and the crowd booing were classy.
George Turner
Hall of Fame
Exact same thing happened to my uncle. Literally the exact same thing.
You don't have to be a man to be a terrible, controlling, abusive partner.
Except he doesn't appear to have told her to bring Naomi to the net at all. He appears to have told her to go to the net herself. I don't know how you can so determinedly claim to know what he was doing when half this board can't agree on what it was (some ppl, for instance, are claiming he told her to hit down the middle).
God this is dumb as hell and I wish people wouldn’t bring political mud slinging to the tennis forum. What utter nonsense.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Agree, different kind of culture, true. like Hamberger eating, head banging rock and roll kind of culture. Europeans look down on that kind of stuff because it doesn't have thousands of years of heritage behind it.
Azure
G.O.A.T.
Don't disagree at all
it's a case by case basis. That is why I don't like the broad brush stroke statements like 'women rant but men are calm' or 'men shouldn't cry' etc.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
This really does have to be the stupidest line I've seen repeated ad nauseum today.
By "unnecessarily inject" you mean do their job and enforce the rules.
Nah, they should just be allowed to do whatever they want, right? He should have just sat there and be abused repeatedly by her and done nothing lest he, the officiating umpire, "inject" himself into the match?
Rubbish, and you know it. He's there to do his job, and he did it.
Racquet Daddy
Rookie
People that are stuck on the coaching violation are missing the big picture. I guess Serena is trying to keep it at the forefront of the discussion, because she can easily deflect blame and use the "but everyone else is doing it" argument (that's what she's really teaching her daughter). No - the main issue is Serena's inability to stand tall in the midst of adversity. She couldn't just let it go. Remember, she breaks her racquet (modeling some more good behavior for her daughter), gets a point penalty, and then continues to berate Ramos about a coaching warning games ago. Let's imagine a scenario in which Serena gets to point penalty, gathers herself, doesn't speak another word to Ramos, and comes back to win the final. But that would never happen. Serena loves drama and, like many have said, loves to play the victim. And what about someone that tuned into tennis for the first time? Is that what a 20+ grand slam champion looks like?
Tennease
Legend
US Open and other Grand Slam tournaments (AO, FO, Wimbledon) are governed by the ITF which has its own rules, different from ATP/WTA rules.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Bill Maher lol
natalia
Hall of Fame
It is NOT only the word (‘thief’, ‘liar’) - it is also the manner of speech : yelling IS a verbal abuse too! Serena was yelling at Ramos bigtime for quite a while!There was no option for a warning. Third violation is an automatic game penalty.
1. Coaching (Warning)
2. Smash Racket (Point penalty)
3. You're A Thief! (Game)
She got what she deserved. Now, if she has a tiny bit of dignity, she should retire from tennis and go for some anger managment coaching. For her daughter’s sake.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Ramos gets hysterical when he’s emotional.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
I haven't been coached
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