Serena's greatest rival?

Who was Serena Williams greatest rival?

  • Total voters
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captainbryce

Hall of Fame
I think it's safe to say that despite being multiple grand slam champions or former world #1 ranked players (or both), and having distinct, Hall of Fame careers, Lindsay Davenport, Kim Clijsters, Maria Sharapova, Victoria Azarenka, Amelie Mauresmo, Svetlana Kusnesova, Li Na, Petra Kvitova, Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic, and Caroline Wozniacki do NOT qualify as true "rivals" of Serena Williams (given their dismal record against her). She has utterly dominated ALL of them in head to head meetings, and with the exception of Davenport and Azarenka, none have beaten her more than twice.

Only five players (Capriati, Dementieva, Henin, Hingis, Venus) have ever beaten Serena Williams 5 or more times in their career. And although Serena still has a winning record over all of them, these 5 players have at least been able to challenge Serena consistently in head to head meetings.

Jennifer Capriati: 7-10 vs Serena
Elena Dementieva: 5-7 vs Serena
Justine Henin: 6-8 vs Serena
Martina Hingis: 6-7 vs Serena
Venus Williams: 11-14 vs Serena

Note: Only 2 players in history have a winning record over Serena Williams: Arantxa Sanchez-Viccario (4-3), and Mary Joe Fernandez (1-0). However, all of those wins occurred before Serena won her first slam in 1999.

Note 2: Alize Cornet has advanced past Serena Williams 4 times in 7 matches. However, one was due to a walkover, and another was due to Williams retiring in the first set, so I don't count either of these as significant.
 
Believe it or not, HINGIS made her the player she is now. To beat Hingis, they developed the power game. Williams basically made Hingis then to retire from the tour. So in this sense Hingis was her main rival.

Then OTOH, when you think of Serena's physical peak era, you gotta point out to Justine Henin as her greatest rival. One could even argue that it was Henin who got Serena kinda frustrated to tennis as she wasn't ever able to dominate Henin.

Then on her late career, Azarenka has been the ONLY player to win Serena in any of her last 31 finals! To pick one, it's a tough choice between Hingis/Henin. I'd still go with Henin, as she is the one player who's the most of her own generation.
 
Withought sjogrens venus would have won over 10 slams. She and serena have played the second most times in slams after chrissy and nav.
 
There's definitely nobody now. It's just a rotating group of who-dats. Just anybody at all could end up on the other side in a major final.
 
In reality in today's WTA, Petra Kitova, but she is so inconsistent and when she is on, she does not fear Serena and has the big serve. That is GS final I would love to see.
 
Agreed with above poster, Kitova or however you spell it has some firepower to match up with. No real competitors, weak era...
 
reds17 said:
Agreed with above poster, Kitova or however you spell it has some firepower to match up with. No real competitors, weak era...
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Good movers like Sloane Stephens, Sam Stosur, Victoria Azarenka can hang with Serena but they are chokers.

Give Petra the cupcake draw at US Open because Serena vs Petra would be a good final.
 
Henin was arguably the best womens player from 03-07 even with Serena in the mix, no one else has managed that consistency with SW on the tour.

Plus her first slam back from retirement she went straight into the AO Final and very nearly came close to beating Serena, Henin was her closest rival, even if their H2H is smallish in conparison to Novak-Fed Nadal-Fed etc
 
Wynter said:
Henin was arguably the best womens player from 03-07 even with Serena in the mix, no one else has managed that consistency with SW on the tour.

Plus her first slam back from retirement she went straight into the AO Final and very nearly came close to beating Serena, Henin was her closest rival, even if their H2H is smallish in conparison to Novak-Fed Nadal-Fed etc
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If Henin were to come back tomorrow her all court game would help reach beyond the 3rd round.
 
i


"If I can beat Venus, I can beat anybody" -Serena Williams
 
Wynter said:
Henin was arguably the best womens player from 03-07 even with Serena in the mix, no one else has managed that consistency with SW on the tour.

Plus her first slam back from retirement she went straight into the AO Final and very nearly came close to beating Serena, Henin was her closest rival, even if their H2H is smallish in conparison to Novak-Fed Nadal-Fed etc
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The first part is exactly why i don't consider them rivals.
From after Wimby 03 to FO 07 they didn't play a single match against each other within that timespan. Serena missed 5 majors within that timespan and came into each major nowhere near her previous level. Her ranking dropped outside the TOP 100 ffs.

And its arguable whether henin was even the best player in 03, 04 and 05. Maybe even 06 even though she reached all the major finals she still lost 3/4.
She only won 1 major each year in 04,05,06. Hardly constitutes as the best player within that timespan. Her only good year was really 07.
 
Krish872007 said:
Probably Venus. Kept a pretty close h2h and Venus is the only person to have beaten Serena more than once in a Slam Final.
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The problem that I have with the so-called Venus-Serena rivalry is that a large number of their 25 meetings have not produced very much outstanding/quality tennis. The matches, themselves, are often less than stellar. The level of play from each sister, when playing each other, has often been tentative. Matches against Henin, Hingis and others have produced better tennis from the sisters. There has also been suspicions of match-fixing, at times, when Venus and Serena have played head-to-head. It's been suspected that Richard, or the sisters themselves, have sometimes pre-determined the outcome. And then there was the Indian Wells affair.

http://www.stevegtennis.com/serena-williams-vs-venus-williams-head-to-head-an-unusual-rivalry/
90's Clay said:
... It's like Roddick/ fed matches. That wasn't a rivalry. One guy won all the matches
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Even tho' this long-standing "rivalry" of 24 matches was lopsided, it resulted in a number of outstanding matches. The best of these was the W final in 2009. The Williams vs Williams matches have not produced tennis even remotely close to this calibre.
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
The problem that I have with the so-called Venus-Serena rivalry is that a large number of their 25 meetings have not produced very much outstanding/quality tennis.
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I disagree that the quality of the matches is relevant in identifying a rival, nor should the H2H be close. The main rival of Serena has to be someone she played against a lot in finals or SF, and someone that could have won a lot more without Serena.

In this regard, Venus is the best choice, as she lost a lot to Serena in 2002-2003, then a few time later at Wimbledon. In most of these lost, she would have been the favorite against the player Serena defeated in SF. Venus career would be significantly better without Serena. It's not the case of Sharapova's, Henin's, or Safina's for exemple.
 
"I think it's safe to say that despite being multiple grand slam champions or former world #1 ranked players (or both), and having distinct, Hall of Fame careers, Lindsay Davenport, Kim Clijsters, Maria Sharapova, Victoria Azarenka, Amelie Mauresmo, Svetlana Kusnesova, Li Na, Petra Kvitova, Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic, and Caroline Wozniacki do NOT qualify as true "rivals" of Serena Williams (given their dismal record against her). She has utterly dominated ALL of them in head to head meetings, and with the exception of Davenport and Azarenka, none have beaten her more than twice."

They're all "true rivals" - "rival" simply means "a person competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity." There seems to be this belief that a "rivals" have to be equal or fairly equal to be called "rivals". Undoubtedly, it's better when the players are evenly matched, but it doesn't change the fact that they're rivals. Given how many times they've played and the big stages they've played on, Sharapova is a big rival of Serena, though it's an awful rivalry.

I get why people use the word "rival" in that manner. The verb "rival" can mean just "to compete for superiority with", or "be or seem to be equal or comparable to" which seems to be what everyone is getting at. "Shaprova's level of play rivals that of Serena Williams" (LOL).
 
torpantennis said:
Then OTOH, when you think of Serena's physical peak era, you gotta point out to Justine Henin as her greatest rival.
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Don't do it bruh. In her career, Serena's worst era physically and otherwise was between 04-07––the era when Henin achieved her greatest success against her. Serena's failures during that era were about her and her own lack of commitment/interest than anything Henin related.

It's amazing to me how people just ignored how all around terrible Serena was during that period when discussing her record against Henin.

As for Serena's greatest rival, it has to be Venus. No one like to choose her because they are sisters, but Venus has more victories over her than any other player and played her in 5 of 6 consecutive finals for crying out lout.
 
upchuck said:
Don't do it bruh. In her career, Serena's worst era physically and otherwise was between 04-07––the era when Henin achieved her greatest success against her. Serena's failures during that era were about her and her own lack of commitment/interest than anything Henin related.

It's amazing to me how people just ignored how all around terrible Serena was during that period when discussing her record against Henin.

As for Serena's greatest rival, it has to be Venus. No one like to choose her because they are sisters, but Venus has more victories over her than any other player and played her in 5 of 6 consecutive finals for crying out lout.
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This and this alone....
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
Even tho' this long-standing "rivalry" of 24 matches was lopsided, it resulted in a number of outstanding matches. The best of these was the W final in 2009. The Williams vs Williams matches have not produced tennis even remotely close to this calibre.
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He was talking about the Serena / Sharapova rivalry.
 
Every player has rival, but the greatest rival in women's tennis is Martina and Chris, hands down.

Unfortunately for them that they have to shared achievements in their era. If Chris didn't have Martina, she would have accomplished a lot more and win 22-25 majors. What scary is Martina could have produced even more staggering numbers and became an undisputed goat !
 
Krish872007 said:
Probably Venus. Kept a pretty close h2h and Venus is the only person to have beaten Serena more than once in a Slam Final.
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This!

Her H2H with 'Little Sis' is far closer than any of the others and she has multiple Slam final wins over her. That kinda clinches it for me!
 
TMF said:
Every player has rival, but the greatest rival in women's tennis is Martina and Chris, hands down.

Unfortunately for them that they have to shared achievements in their era. If Chris didn't have Martina, she would have accomplished a lot more and win 22-25 majors. What scary is Martina could have produced even more staggering numbers and became an undisputed goat !
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#No. #Martina stopped #Chris in 1983. #Steffi stopped #Martina beginning in 1987. However, no one can stop #Serena. No one. Serena is unrivaled and the best over two decades, a first in tennis history. Largely why she will end up with more than them all when said and done.

I'm glad you are able to witness tennis history being made, #MrWiki. Serena is the best ever and I know you are proud!

#GrannyIlluminati​
 
Elena Dementieva's game was controlled by three main elements: 1. Poor Service 2. Heavy Groundstokes 3. Abnormal musculature (Yes, Russian athlete's history of excellent "SPORTS MEDICINE" is well documented.)

Elena_Dementieva_at_the_2010_US_Open_05.jpg
 
AngieB said:
#No. #Martina stopped #Chris in 1983. #Steffi stopped #Martina beginning in 1987. However, no one can stop #Serena. No one. Serena is unrivaled and the best over two decades, a first in tennis history. Largely why she will end up with more than them all when said and done.

I'm glad you are able to witness tennis history being made, #MrWiki. Serena is the best ever and I know you are proud!

#GrannyIlluminati​
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Come on Angie.

Both Martina & Chris have won a combined total of 36 slams. If one of them don't exist, I'm sure you believe that they would have won more than 18 slams. Not to mention other achievements like ranking, titles and other records. Their countless number of encounters proved they have to share those achievements. Right ?
 
IMO Henin. She has a winning record in slams, and an almost tied one overall. She also owns Serena on one major surface (clay where she is 4-1) which isnt true of any other player.

Capriati 2nd.

Venus 3rd. The whole sibling thing takes away from it as they lack intensity and a burning desire to win against each other, especialy Venus over Serena.
 
TMF said:
Come on Angie.

Both Martina & Chris have won a combined total of 36 slams. If one of them don't exist, I'm sure you believe that they would have won more than 18 slams. Not to mention other achievements like ranking, titles and other records. Their countless number of encounters proved they have to share those achievements. Right ?
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If Chris and Martina didnt both exist then the 80s would have been the scariest wasteland ever seen in tennis. It was bad enough even with both there, and Pam Shriver always ranked 3rd or 4th, and someone like Bettina Bunge ending 4 years in the top 10.
 
Man of steel said:
The first part is exactly why i don't consider them rivals.
From after Wimby 03 to FO 07 they didn't play a single match against each other within that timespan. Serena missed 5 majors within that timespan and came into each major nowhere near her previous level. Her ranking dropped outside the TOP 100 ffs.

And its arguable whether henin was even the best player in 03, 04 and 05. Maybe even 06 even though she reached all the major finals she still lost 3/4.
She only won 1 major each year in 04,05,06. Hardly constitutes as the best player within that timespan. Her only good year was really 07.
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I would say she was the best player in all of 03, 04, and 06. Although I could see a good case for Mauresmo in 06 too, but that is it.

2003- yeah we can say what if Serena didnt get injured. She did, and Henin ending the year with 2 majors like Serena, beating Serena for the first one, a truckload of titles, reaching semis of all 4 slams, and YE#1, was the best of this year.

2004- I dont think she deserved the #1 ranking as she didnt play enough but was clearly best player. Despite only playing about half the year with Australian Open title, Olympic singles gold, Indian Wells title, 5 titles oveerall, still a clearly better year than anyone else. Who else would it be? The only other one I can see a case for is Sharapova who won Wimbledon and YEC, but she won less titles than Henin despite playing the whole year, and had poor results in most of the majors (although Henin did too). Certainly not a player like Davenport or Mauresmo who didnt win a slam or even reach a slam final. Certainly not Myskina or Kuznetsova, the other 2 slam winners. Not Serena who didnt win a big title. So if not Henin who? Like I said Maria is the only other possability that isnt laughable, but I would still pick Henin. For rankings Davenport at #1 was fine, but certainly not best player.

2006- I would go with Henin since her making all 4 slam finals, even if only winning 1, winning YEC and 8 titles (vs 5 for Mauresmo and Sharapova) and ending year at #1 is sufficient. Although I could also see a case for Mauresmo winning 2 slams, but she only ended the year ranked 3rd. Only those two are possible choices. Maria has no case at all, but is a strong 3rd best (despite ending ranked 2nd over Mauresmo).

2007- no brainer.

So I would say Henin was the best player 4 different years, and really only 2006 would I give strong consideration to someone different.
 
mattosgrant said:
If Chris and Martina didnt both exist then the 80s would have been the scariest wasteland ever seen in tennis. It was bad enough even with both there, and Pam Shriver always ranked 3rd or 4th, and someone like Bettina Bunge ending 4 years in the top 10.
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Without Serena, imagine Wozniacki, Jankovic, Safina and other non-slam winners would owned the #1 ranking. Even with Serena, the aforementioned names were considered the weakest #1 in women's tennis.
 
TMF said:
Without Serena, imagine Wozniacki, Jankovic, Safina and other non-slam winners would owned the #1 ranking. Even with Serena, the aforementioned names were considered the weakest #1 in women's tennis.
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All those players are better than Shriver, Turnbull, and Bunge atleast. Right now Sharapova and Kvitova would be trading #1, and they arent bad in the least, and far better than the wasteland of a top 10 behind Martina and Chris (other than Hana in her rare good years) of the 80s.
 
mattosgrant said:
All those players are better than Shriver, Turnbull, and Bunge atleast. Right now Sharapova and Kvitova would be trading #1, and they arent bad in the least, and far better than the wasteland of a top 10 behind Martina and Chris (other than Hana in her rare good years) of the 80s.
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I'm going to stop now. All you're doing is denigrating players from the past with no fact but biased opinion.
 
The way you deginerate Serena and anything Serena related? I have seen all those players play many times. Anyone with even remote knowledge on womens tennis knows the mid 80s were one of the poorest spells ever (and it has nothing to do with the past, I realize for instance the mid to late 70s which are much later, or the late 60s, are periods that were far superior). If you are oblivious to this, oh well.
 
mattosgrant said:
IMO Henin. She has a winning record in slams, and an almost tied one overall. She also owns Serena on one major surface (clay where she is 4-1) which isnt true of any other player.

Capriati 2nd.

Venus 3rd. The whole sibling thing takes away from it as they lack intensity and a burning desire to win against each other, especialy Venus over Serena.
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Yes, those would probably be the 3 best rivalries. I'm trying to think of someone else, but there really isn't anyone. Venus at the beginning was probably the best, but faded thereafter as Serena started to dominate.
 
mattosgrant said:
The way you deginerate Serena and anything Serena related? I have seen all those players play many times. Anyone with even remote knowledge on womens tennis knows the mid 80s were one of the poorest spells ever (and it has nothing to do with the past, I realize for instance the mid to late 70s which are much later, or the late 60s, are periods that were far superior). If you are oblivious to this, oh well.
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Even Angie who is a die-hard Serena fans would disagree with you. There's no way of proving a lower ranked players from the present are better than the past and vice-versa.

However, one great player can drastically effect another great player's career achievement. Martina/Chris, and Federer/Nadal have reduced each other achievements. That's my point from post #32 which can't be dispute.
 
AngieB said:
#No. #Martina stopped #Chris in 1983. #Steffi stopped #Martina beginning in 1987. However, no one can stop #Serena. No one. Serena is unrivaled and the best over two decades, a first in tennis history. Largely why she will end up with more than them all when said and done.
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Though Serena is not invincible, she has successfully battled and surpassed how many players with majors?

In the end, the worst of her stalker/haters are suffering from a hyper-aggressive sexism / physical distinction derangement syndrome, where the reality of Serena being the most successful professional tennis player of the 21st century--without question by rational minds (while effectively defeating every one of their long-argued "true" or "real" players over the past 3 generations) drives them to flood this and other boards (I will leave nameless for now) with hate couched in more hate.

They are so resentful of this woman for certain key reasons (see the description in bold), that they jump from contradictory positions on their former "saviors" of tennis (Hingis / Henin / Maria / Kvitova) to now rendering them "weak." In the same breath, it will go from weak, and back to "savior" mode again, conveniently ignoring Serena's dominant record against most to sell the idea that if they played today, Serena would not have even 10 majors. Reverse the players, and there would be NO fantasies, hate campaigns or lies about that player. This kind of hate in its forms all come under that bold description above: hyper-aggressive sexism (because she is the most successful player) / physical distinction (you know what that means) derangement syndrome.

This past weekend, John McEnroe said it best when he observed that Serena winning the Grand Slam would be great for the entire sport.
 
Incognito said:
but this is what you do when it comes to Laver, Rosewall, Tilden etc...:rolleyes:
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No because facts like there's a split fields in the pre-open era does lessen the level of competition due to depleted field. Anyone in their right mind knows that a standard is higher with a full field.
 
Henin or Venus. Henin's always the one who sticks out to me, though, because she was able to beat Serena when Serena was at her best. For instance, she was the one player who stopped Serena from winning 6 straight Grand Slams from the 2002 French Open to Wimbledon 2003 by beating her in the 2003 French Open SF's. She also beat Serena in 3 consecutive Grand Slam QF's in 2007 (French Open, Wimbledon, US Open). Serena had won the Australian Open that year and who knows if she would have won the CYGS if not for Henin?

Capriati is up there too. She beat Serena in a couple Slam QF's in 2004 to prevent even further dominance.
 
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