Sergetti Stringing - WOW!

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by gazz1, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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    I recently came across the Sergetti stringing method and thought I'll give it a go. I am amazed at what a difference it has made to my game and I'm curious if others here have had a similar experience?

    Up until a month ago, I had never even heard of it so I am hoping that it may be able to help others here.

    It's a scientifically developed proportional stringing method that claims to greatly increase the sweet spot, increase the life of the string bed among other things. I'm a sceptic by nature, but I can certainly testify for the increased sweet spot and here's why:

    I play in a doubles social comp and I recently played the best match of my life using this stringing method.
    I was able to beat players that consistently beat me. I served 3 aces in one game (2 against our best player) and my groundstrokes were better than ever.

    Between games, I noticed red marks all over my new white poly strings.
    My coach uses new tennis balls and marks them with a Red X (he reuses these later for coaching).

    I had red dots spread out all over the place- I had not been hitting the ball that well after all - but the shots felt great and came off the racket nicely. It had to be the larger sweet spot from the Sergetti stringing.

    I also get tennis elbow. Next day - no tennis elbow for the 1st time in months...same strings!
    Played my second game this week - played well again and no tennis elbow.

    I can't comment on the enhanced string life because I haven't played long enough but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the sweet spot is much bigger, it's improved my game out of sight and I don't feel anywhere near the shock from off-centre hits.

    I hope that this helps others and I am interested in any feedback from people who are using this or other similar techniques.
     
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  2. QuadCam

    QuadCam Professional

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    What's the method?
     
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  3. skydog

    skydog Semi-Pro

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    #3
  4. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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    Hi QuadCam,
    I can't tell you the exact method some research based proprietary calculation but I can tell you it works (it's also been independently tested by a research laboratory BTW)

    The method is different than some of the others that I have seen in that it calculates a specific tension for each string that will vary depending on the type of racket, main & cross and selected tension.

    You enter your racket, select the main & cross strings and choose your preferred tension, and pay about $30 Canadian, and it sends you the tensions for each string to optimise the sweet spot and other characteristics.

    Here's the link: https://sergetti.com/en/

    Check this link out that I found off the thread that Skydog refers to go to 4:28 and you hear someone a lot smarter than me saying that conventional stringing guarantees a bad outcome.

    Considering what I have spent on rackets, strings, lead tape, etc, etc, this is the best investment I have ever made.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  5. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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  6. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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  7. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    One video is better than thousand words...
     
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  8. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Me too. I mean, new poster joins board, first post waxes lyrical about a product… ;)

    It’s great that you’ve found a change to your equipment that works well for your game. Tennis is an extremely mental sport, and anything that adds confidence can only improve your play. And no pain is certainly a plus!
     
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  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    @gazz1 I too am a fan of the Sergetti method but even with the introduction price I still think the price is high considering every time you want to change the string, or especially the tension or racket you need to buy a new sheet. As good as the proportional string method is there are some people that will not like it. I developed my own proportional method and it works well for me and some others I’ve shared it with. PM me if you’d like to try it and I’ll share my spreadsheet with you.
     
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  10. MattCrosby

    MattCrosby Professional

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    Irvin, I've dropped you a PM. Would love to try your method.
     
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  11. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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    Fair comment - I would probably think the same.

    I'm just a social tennis player, nowhere near the level of you guys. I recently purchased a Gamma progression II 602 drop weight stringing machine. I had never strung a racket before, watched a few youtube videos and strung a few rackets. I came across proportional stringing somewhere on the internet (Sergetti and a couple of other methods) and it made a lot of sense to me. Sergetti seems to be the most advanced, so I tried it.

    I had a great experience with it, some of which may have had a mental aspect, but I am always trying the next great string or racket and nothing has made this big a difference to my game.

    I emailed Sergetti and to tell them about my experience and say thanks. I don't know about you, but I don't do that sort of thing often enough.
    A guy named Serge replied and asked if he could use my comments as a testimonial and I agreed. Here's the link: https://sergetti.com/en/testimonials/garth-hunt-ger/

    My real name is Garth (wife & kids call me Gazz), I'm from Australia (don't know why testimonial says Germany - he must think I don't have a sense of humour :) ), I love tennis but I'm not that good of a player - just social level.

    Like I said, I would have thought the same as you, but that's the story. It's my first post because it's the first time that I thought I could make a worthy contribution. There's a wealth of knowledge on these forums and to be honest, I learn a great deal but I really don't have anything useful to contribute.

    For what it's worth, I have absolutely nothing to gain financially. I'm passing on something that has helped me in the hope that it will help others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  12. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like the usual fairy dust that magically transforms strokes.
     
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  13. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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    Thanks Irvin, much appreciated. I looked on the thread that SkyDog referred to and can see that you were trying to let others know about it as well.

    I really enjoy experimenting with things which can turn out to be costly. I have probably 10+ rackets in the garage and I'm no Roger Federer :) I get just as much enjoyment making a customisation and testing it as I do playing well in a game. So I looked at it like this - 1 average racket costs me about $300 AUD and for the price of 1 racket I can purchase 10 Sergetti sheets.

    Would I rather have 10 rackets strung poorly or 9 rackets strung optimally? Given that the string bed makes contact with the ball, for me it's a no brainer.

    I have set myself a Sergetti budget of $300 max and so far I've used about half of it and probably won't need to spend any more.
    As it turns out, I will probably sell about 5 rackets, keep my 3 DR 98 s and a couple of others for friends/family, so I'm way in front and getting a better result :)

    I respect that everyone has a different budget, but even if I only had 1 racket, I would still prefer 1 racket strung optimally vs buying a second and having 2 strung relatively poorly (not that you would need 10 Sergetti sheets for 1 racket) - am I missing something?

    Thanks again Irvin. I'll be in touch.
     
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  14. gazz1

    gazz1 Rookie

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    I wish...unfortunately I played the same crappy strokes - the off centre shots just came off the racket better :)

    Maybe it's not going to be as helpful to a player that's hitting the sweet spot all the time?
    I miss a lot.

    Then again, the better you get, the better the competition. A greater margin for error probably doesn't hurt anyone. Even Fed's hit one into the stands :)

    But you've got me thinking that maybe I shouldn't use it for training. You're better off knowing that you've hit off-centre during training so that you can improve.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
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  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    In lieu of people sending me their email address I contacted diredesire and he has graciously volunteered to host my excel file. Once I send it to him and he gets it up anyone can easily download it anonymously.
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I’ve had a few questions and comments in PMs about my stringing worksheet so I thought I would address them here.

    Some want the specific tensions for a specific racket - Sorry no can do. You’re going to have to measure your specific racket to get the length for half your mains and all the crosses. There is room in the spreadsheet to store that information and you can save a worksheet for an unlimited number of rackets. I have an index on the first sheet to link to any racket from then on. Once you enter the file automatically determines the length of the longest main and cross. You then use that number to determine the tension for the longest mains and crosses unless you already know what you want to use. The spreadsheet will then calculate the proportional tension for all other strings.

    Some what to start with a large differential between mains and crosses - You can do that if you want but I prefer to use the Stringway TA to determine tensions for my rackets. I warn you the tension will feel lower using my method so I like to selected a DT that offers a tension on the crosses =/> my normal tension. For instance, if I normally string a racket @56# I would choose a DT where the longest cross string tension is at least 56#.
     
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  17. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Also I do not think the sweetspot is any larger when you use proportional stringing. The strings are stiffer in the speetspot so you’re rewarded with a good sweetspot hit. The strings are softer off the sweetspot so you don’t feel as harsh a feeling with off center shots but it feels no where near as good as a good center hit.
     
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  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    For knot tension there is nothing built into the spreadsheet for tie off strings. I would suggest you use something like a stringmeter to determine how much tension you’re loosing on tie offs and adjust accordingly if you want.
     
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  19. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    My spreadsheet adjust all tensions to the nearest 1/2 pound. If you use Kg values it will be 1/2 Kg so be aware. It simple to change though if you want to. I choose 1/2 pound because that’s the smallest unit for my machine in the lb mode. I doubt you would be able to notice much difference if you were to adjust to 1/10 pound but you’ll be changing tensions more.
     
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  20. diredesire

    diredesire Adjunct Moderator

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  21. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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  22. saleem

    saleem Semi-Pro

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  23. Tordne

    Tordne Semi-Pro

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    We came across the Sergetti stringing method in that Proportional Stringing thread as well. We've done a ton of our own rackets, and customer rackets, and have excellent experience and feedback. I've also had them add quite a few rackets and strings to their database :)
     
    #23
  24. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    I got Irvin's spreadsheet. Thanks so much Irvin. I have the same formula/method in calculating the tensions. When I used this method the first time the frame shortened by about 1/8. So I made sure to raise the inputted tension for the crosses. Yesterday, I tried adding 10 more pounds to the cross tension to an RF97 and was surprised to see no deformation occurred. Everytime I string an RF97 the frame always shortens by at most 1/8 and that has always bothered me. The final outcome though was an overall tighter stringbed that was a bit more than I had aimed for. Not by much. But something to watch out for for me and to learn from. Generally, by going 10 more pounds on the crosses, I got an average increase of 33% on the mains and a 13% decrease in the crosses. This number was based on a stringmeter check right after.

    So I don't know, am I doing this right/wrong? I guess I need to do some more tests. This is my friend's racquet and he basically gave me blanket authority to play around with string tension combinations. Ultimately, it's the playability that will decide the issue. We'll see tomorrow how he likes it. Cross fingers :)

    EDIT: I strung poly 1.24mm/Poly 1.18mm
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
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  25. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    So, if you set 50 pounds for the mains and 60 for the crosses, you measured 67 for the mains and 52 for the crosses? This is too much a difference. You should consider changing M (1.18) and C (1.25).
     
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  26. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    To describe it best here are my Mains results:

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 AVG
    Reference 50.0 49.5 49.0 47.5 45.5 42.0 38.0 31.5 44.1
    Stringmeter 65.0 65.0 65.0 60.0 63.0 58.0 55.0 38.0 58.6
    Increase lbs 15.0 15.5 16.0 12.5 17.5 16.0 17.0 6.5 14.5
    Increase % 30% 31% 33% 26% 38% 38% 45% 21% 33%

    EDIT: Sorry this didn't turn out well but I hope you can figure them out.
     
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  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    @grhcan99 are you setting the correct gauge on the stringmeter and using the free string section on the stringmeter to measure?
     
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  28. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    Yes. But I've never used the free string section. I actually haven't noticed it until you mentioned it :) How do you use it?
     
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  29. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    Oh and btw, my friend liked it. Forgot to mention that the string bed measured 52 in RacquetTune freshly strung. Next day went down to 50. Haven't got a chance to measure it again today. But probably sub 50 by now. The reading for his other racquets were at high 30's. So that's a bit of disparity. And I was concerned he'd notice it. He said it was good. He noticed right off the bat that the sides were softer. What can I say. I had wanted him to say it's stiffer/tighter so I can make adjustments. Now the realization hit me that he can actually play in a wider range of tensions. And that kinda throws me off because now I'm not sure anymore how to string his next racquet :)
     
    #29
  30. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It is used to measure the tension on a free string. You can’t measure the individual strings in a racket if you don’t use it. On a side note the center main strings will be longer than the outer mains so if (and the won’t because of friction loss) they were all the exact same tension the outer mains would read higher. PUT THAT THING AWAY!!!!!
     
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  31. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    Hahaha. Never paid much attention to this thing until I started dabbling in this maddening pursuit of the holy grail of stringing. And yes this thing will drive you crazy with the numbers it gives you. Anyway, thanks again for the spreadsheet. And a very Merry Christmas to you and to everybody.
     
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  32. tennisbike

    tennisbike Rookie

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    I observed something very similar though I only bumped up about 4 lbs on the cross. The main tension went up but not cross tension.

    Higher cross tension was advocated by Gut and Glory. From what I read you will get a firmer stringbed so that then you can then lower the reference tension in the next iteration.

    Thank you Irvin. The spreadsheet is impressive. I had not ventured into varying the cross tension only to the extend of Jaycee/JET. But I like the "bigger" sweet spot so far.
     
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  33. scf

    scf Semi-Pro

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    How the mains length should be measured properly? The length is distance between grommet tip to opposite grommet tip? Or distance between frame surface (grommet base) to opposite frame surface?
     
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  34. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    From the outside edge of the grommet hole, as per the universal string theory of Aristoxenus and Vincenzo Galilei.

    BTW, do you pronounce Sergetti like all Italians do - Serghetti?
     
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  35. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I doubt it matters as long as you use the same measurements for all strings. A few mm should not really matter one way or another. You’re looking to get the tension proportional across the string bed.

    HERE IS A TIP FOR YOU IN MEASURING THE STRING LENGTH - measure all string lengths from frame to frame at the point where the string would meet the frame. After you’ve finished use the INSERT>GRAPH option on the tool to graph the string lengths. The result should be a gradual slope showing your string lengths.if one or more stick out remeasure and adjust accordingly.

    I can capture a picture if you want.

    EDIT: I also use tooth picks to keep track of the grommets I’m measuring, and always use an unstrung racket.
     
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  36. scf

    scf Semi-Pro

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    Thanks! It's clear now.
     
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  37. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    I guess I don't understand how different, untied mains or crosses can maintain different tensions. In my experience, the racquet grommets are designed to allow string to slide such that tensions on adjacent crosses/mains equalize after a few of hits. If you were stringing and tying separate sections, I could see how that would hold different tensions since the pieces of strings are separated, but then you would have the tension loss/inequality due to the knots.
     
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  38. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    The more you hit in the sweet spot the more the tension of the outside strings will increase because of the deeper deflection of the strings where the ball hits. This only is enough argument in favor of proportional stringing.
     
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  39. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If that were true it would be perfectly fine to double pull strings because it would all equalize after a few hits. And the USRSA would have been 100% wrong when they said strings do not equalize.
     
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  40. RyanRF

    RyanRF Professional

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    This is exactly correct.

    After hitting a few balls, the tension difference between adjacent mains is going to even out.

    This whole thing is snake oil. The fact that the guy wants to SELL THE MAGIC NUMBERS should have made it obvious.
     
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  41. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Sell? Who’s selling this method other than Sergetti? Try it yourself and see if the tensions even out.
     
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  42. RyanRF

    RyanRF Professional

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    I'm surprised to year this from you Irvin, because I thought you knew your stuff..
    1. Go ahead a string a racquet, mains only. Set a 5 lb difference between the two adjacent middle mains.
    2. Pluck those two mains to hear the difference in pitch. This would reflect the 5lb difference
    3. Now press with your palm on the stringbed.
    4. Pluck again. Now the pitches are more similar.
    5. Press a few more times.... eventually the pitches will be the same.
     
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  43. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    That's true but that's only if only the mains were strung and that is if you start pulling on them before installing the crosses. But what about the crosses? Don't you think this would prevent the evening out or maybe at best slow it down? My question then is if the mains do even out eventually how long would it take for this to happen?
     
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  44. RyanRF

    RyanRF Professional

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    What I described was worst case. Crosses would probably slow it down, but there's no reason to believe it would stop equalization completely. Keep in mind that you will be hitting thousands of balls, and the peak force of hitting a ball is greater than the force of pressing with your hand.
     
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  45. grhcan99

    grhcan99 Rookie

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    I don't dispute this as I do not have any facts to the contrary. But this has been a lingering question at the back of my mind as well. While I cannot deny that the results are real I have unanswered questions about duration. If it can maintain its tensions long enough until I restring (at least 20 hrs) then it will probably be worth it. I've just started dabbling with this this past week so I don't have much experience with it yet. I've strung my friend's and he liked it but that was just the first session. We will see what happens after a couple more sessions.

    Anybody has experience as far as how long the benefits stay?
     
    #45
  46. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    Seems like a fairly straightforward method to monitor string movement: after stringing take a sharpie or some stencil ink and mark the strings at the grommets.
     
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  47. RyanRF

    RyanRF Professional

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    This would also be a good way to track it. With high tension near the center and low tension towards the edges, the slack would be pulled in a tiny bit with each ball hit. A sharpie mark would show this.

    Hard to know exactly how x amount of string movement relates to y amount of tension loss/gain.
     
    #47
  48. AndI

    AndI Rookie

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    The only problem with this statement is that it is dead wrong. Regretfully, it shows that you commented on topic which you apparently know very little about. String tension does not even out not only after hitting a few balls, but even after several months of active playing. The difference in tension in proportionally strung racquet is so large that one can feel without any tools how much tighter center strings are compared to strings that are close to the frame. You try moving them, and you feel the difference. Their tension may drop with time, but this difference can be felt just as strongly and clearly after 2-3 months of active regular playing.

    As for selling magic numbers... Try modeling stiffness of the string bed taking into account string and racquet parameters and you will know. I can assure you, based on my limited experience with computational physics (did not do much myself, but I had a PhD student under my supervision who was quite a bit involved in simulations), that it is a challenging optimization problem way beyond a couple of formulas in Excel. It took the guy who came up with the Sergetti method 10 years to develop the algorithm. He filed for a patent for the algorithm of calculations. It is not the URSA method in which they add / subtract a fixed number from tension of shortest strings, and not even the method where tension is proportional to the string length. The Sergetti tension pattern is nothing but obvious. Not only the profile is weird, but tensions of individual strings do not even scale linearly with the reference tension. If you buy sheets for 50 Lbs and 55 Lbs and think you can interpolate to 52 Lbs, good luck - you will be quite a bit off. So, 5 types of strings on the mains, 5 types on the crosses, say, 20 racquet sizes to approximate most of them, say, 40 tensions... Any takers for calculating 20,000 Excel spreadsheets to give them away for free?

    It is a purely personal decision to like it or not (or to like or not like proportional stringing in general). It will not make one a better player, but may make the same strings feel better. I like it. My kid likes it. My friend tried Sergetti / natural gut on one racquet and came back with two racquets, now asking to string the same for him and his son. He does not consider going back.

    I also can confirm, based on my own measurements of DT, that proportionally strung racquet holds tension longer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  49. Imago

    Imago Hall of Fame

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    The whole undertaking is quite arrogant as it challenges the achievements of God. ;-)
     
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  50. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    Pushing on main strings with your fingers (with no crosses installed), does not prove string tension "equalizes" over time. USRSA says it doesn't, and on this point, I agree with them. Anyway, go ahead with @Dags Sharpie test, and let us know what you find out.

    Possibly. I admit that I'm skeptical, too. But people are paying this guy for patterns. Either everyone who pays him is a sucker, or this guy is on to something (or a combination of both, I suppose).

    Edit: Another way of looking at: if tension does "equalize," by hitting tennis balls with the racquet, then stringing a racquet proportionally would be pointless - or at least, the effects would be rather short lived. Lots of people string their racquets proportionally, and swear by it (I'm not one of them, by the way). You'd think they would complain about having to restring their racquets so frequently - to get the desired effects back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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