serve and volley chip and charge epiphany

[pnoytennis]

I am a regular 3.5 player but on good days i can be a 4.0. with that being said, i just had an epiphany about playing serve and volley/chip and charge. i started playing tennis in the era of baseliners. and that's where i started, lived and perished. but this past year i started playing serve and volley also chip and charge. i made it a point that non of my points will be won behind or on the baseline. as a result i had the following discovery

1. my serve is no longer a liability - serve and volleying made my average double fault per set from 8 to approximately 1. i no longer think about just getting it in. my mind is only focus on placement, then power, then the net approach
2. my mental game has tremendously improved- i no longer choke and crumble because of one stupid error or mishit. i have learned and accepted that tennis is a percentage game.
3. More instinct playing- which was suggested by the Book "the mental game of tennis", all my movement and tactics and play are instinct. the play is moving so fast i don't have time to think myself to defeat or death. every point is an independent point and a game is an independent game until the match is over
4. i have been more honest with my line calls- i am only human, sometimes i make poor line calls. ever since i have been serving volleying i have been truthful to all my calls. because i no longer focus on winning but on each and every point. as a result my opponents respect me more
5. i have been more successful against pusher and dinkers. i am no longer the victim of a drop shot or a lucky returns from the opponent after i made a great serve. Or that mentally frustrating dink return after i made a great return of serve
6. my tactical game has improved tremendously. i am no longer ball bashing or waiting for my opponent to make that mistake.
7. i love the mental pressure i t gives to the opponent. it forces them to play the ball instead of just hitting it back
8. freedom from mental pressure. i simply enjoy the game more. defeat is part of it, but lately, winning has become more natural

 

[Fintft]

1. my serve is no longer a liability - serve and volleying made my average double fault per set from 8 to approximately 1. i no longer think about just getting it in. my mind is only focus on placement, then power, then the net approach

Could it also be that moving your weight forward helps your serve motion?

 

[blip]

Awesome! I can agree with much of this although my success rate isn't very high.

I do find that the forward motion does help with my serves.

 

[Easy Rider]

S&V is the most agresive play style. No room for second thoughts.
Beside required skills, you also need big ego and short term memory. And I love it

 

[Moveforwardalways]

S&V makes both players have to be shot makers. This can work for you or against you, depending. There is no long rallying, you basically force the issue, and the opponent has to hit a good shot (assuming you hit a good shot). Pushers hate this, as you mentioned. However, if you play someone who may struggle with consistency, but happens to be "on" that day, they can make your life miserable and the match will be over fast. Then when the score gets posted, your buddies are like WTF happened out there.

 

[Shroud]

S&V is the most agresive play style. No room for second thoughts.
Beside required skills, you also need big ego and short term memory. And I love it

Hey Easy

Can you explain the ego part?

I find ego can hold me back. Like one ugly pass where I look stupid can have me rethinking the whole strategy. If not me, doubles partners almost always give the "why not stay back?" speech after just one pass...

So I think I am missing something, though I get the short term memory part...

For me it's the best way to play. Not wired for 44 shot rallies

 

[beltsman]

4. i have been more honest with my line calls- i am only human, sometimes i make poor line calls. ever since i have been serving volleying i have been truthful to all my calls. because i no longer focus on winning but on each and every point. as a result my opponents respect me more

I don't get this. You should always be honest with your line calls, no matter what play style you have.

 

[Long Face]

Wow look at my signature...

 

[Easy Rider]

Hey Easy

Can you explain the ego part?

I find ego can hold me back. Like one ugly pass where I look stupid can have me rethinking the whole strategy. If not me, doubles partners almost always give the "why not stay back?" speech after just one pass...

So I think I am missing something, though I get the short term memory part...

For me it's the best way to play. Not wired for 44 shot rallies

You got it. One ugly pass and find out what you did wrong and forget about that lost point. Big ego will allow you to rush the net again. Almost like : Ok, buddy, you got me this time but here I come again.

S&V is not about hitting fancy volleys. It is about hurting your opponent with the serve so you end up with easier putaway

 

[Shroud]

Wow look at my signature...

Why?

Dude I am old and slow and still manage to serve and volley. Here is a vid where I am trying to "stay back" on points and well I dont do so well and end up at the net. Some points I totally lose because I was staying back.

If slow old Shroud can get in, ANYONE can:

 

[Shroud]

You got it. One ugly pass and find out what you did wrong and forget about that lost point. Big ego will allow you to rush the net again. Almost like : Ok, buddy, you got me this time but here I come again.

S&V is not about hitting fancy volleys. It is about hurting your opponent with the serve so you end up with easier putaway

Got it. Yeah thats why I like S&V, its the coming back and back and back daring the other guy to pass you AGAIN. I recall the Wimbledon match where Nadal won 295 points and Fed won 290. I was thinking, "wow I could get passed 290 times and STILL WIN!"

Rafter was talking about changing the spins and "never hitting the same serve twice" so it would just be a bit out of the sweet spot for the returner so the return would be off just a bit. That sounds like what you are talking about to get an easy put away.

I like what the OP said about the serve getting better. As you mention the serve is key. Are there patterns you use? Serves that work best? I like the kick as it gets me more time to come in, but some opponents adapt and can start hitting returns that are tough to volley. What kind of variety do you do?

I posted a lame vid above. The 2nd point is pretty classic. Kicker to BH and easy put away. But some returners eat that serve for lunch either by running around or just hitting a good BH. So what else works??

 

[Easy Rider]

Rafter was very good at making you misshit the return or should I say forcing you not to hit clean. Mixing placement, spin and speed is the key to do the above.
First volley depends on many things but main are : How hard it is to hit it and opponents positioning. If you have tough volley go directly into opponent. Force him to move away from the balls path in order to hit passing while you cover the net and position urself better. It is harder to move away abd hit passing than move in or chase the ball and hit passing cuz of the less available space . I call it repeated atack.
When you have clear volley take into account opponents positioning and make him hit passing on the run (sprinting for it) or from stretch.
The serve: Ive started with flat serves but once opponent gets used to the ball speed it can get ugly. So I analyzed Rafter strategy and copied good part of it. Ive stopped hutting flat serves and developed kick variations. So for example my first service game would look like : Kickoslice to the body, fast kick outwide, heavy kick down the T, kickoslice down the T.(nowadays it is pretty much imposible to netrush on second serve and be sucesful).
Key is to keep returner guessing. Natural S&V players will split step (jab step) just behind service line and change movement durection acordingly.

Feel free to ask, this is just first things that came to me

 

[GuyClinch]

am a regular 3.5 player but on good days i can be a 4.0. with that being said, i just had an epiphany about playing serve and volley/chip and charge. i started playing tennis in the era of baseliners. and that's where i started, lived and perished. but this past year i started playing serve and volley also chip and charge. i made it a point that non of my points will be won behind or on the baseline. as a result i had the following discovery

How would you even know this? Are you on a 3.5 and a 4.0 team at the same time? What kinda captain would take a 3.5 player on his team? Let me guess you don't play on either - and you beat some of your buddies playing chip and charge. Wake me up when you win a 4.0 league match with it. In my experience its a tough gig - why? Because legit 4.0 male players have excellent forehands and average "kick' serves used to set up chip and charges are like fodder for passing shots.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

If not me, doubles partners almost always give the "why not stay back?" speech after just one pass...

Umm... what? Getting to the net is the key to winning at doubles. Why would your partner want you to stay back? One-up one-back is a sure loser stragety in doubles. At least if you are rushing the net you have a chance.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

How would you even know this? Are you on a 3.5 and a 4.0 team at the same time? What kinda captain would take a 3.5 player on his team? Let me guess you don't play on either - and you beat some of your buddies playing chip and charge. Wake me up when you win a 4.0 league match with it. In my experience its a tough gig - why? Because legit 4.0 male players have excellent forehands and average "kick' serves used to set up chip and charges are like fodder for passing shots.

Somewhat agree, but no one serves to chip and charge. Not sure what you mean. Chip and charge is a serve return strategy.

 

[Shroud]

Umm... what? Getting to the net is the key to winning at doubles. Why would your partner want you to stay back? One-up one-back is a sure loser stragety in doubles. At least if you are rushing the net you have a chance.

Yeah. I told them that I couldn't stay back it just wasn't possible. They meant more like serve, wait for the return then come in.

I just served better and moved better and we won the match