Serve and Volley Issue

[rchjr2091]

I have gotten to where I really like to serve and volley in singles and doubles. Not every point but enough to make my opponent know it's a tool in my toolbox. My issue is I have a very dependable serve but when I start trying to serve and volley during a match I find I start missing my first serve (when I'm thinking of running to the net) , it's just enough to make me get aggravated and cut back on doing it.

Anyone else ever experience something similar? If so any tips to push past it ?

 

[Plush]

I'm sure you've heard this before, but hit the serve first, then run in. I'm guessing you're missing serves into the net; it's probably because your weight is going forward and not up like it should be.

 

[LeeD]

..and when you practice your serves, always come to net position, or 2' from the service line.

 

[rchjr2091]

I'm sure you've heard this before, but hit the serve first, then run in. I'm guessing you're missing serves into the net; it's probably because your weight is going forward and not up like it should be.

Yes your right, into the net. I'm in to big a hurry.

 

[rchjr2091]

..and when you practice your serves, always come to net position, or 2' from the service line.

This is what I have started doing. I think it helps in keeping your heart rate up and it gives me a little more rest on my shoulder in between serves. Wish I would have done this from the beginning.

 

[ONgame]

You can also try dropping the pace of your first serves 5-10% when going s&v.
Having a high first serve rate will also put pressure on the opponent.

 

[Lance L]

Yes your right, into the net. I'm in to big a hurry.

What you are seeing is not unusual. For me at least, the serve and volley serve motion is different. You have to get to the net, so my SV motion the back foot steps through into the court, and that motion takes some getting used to.

I say you should do concerted practice on the SV motion, treat it like its own thing.

I also find that power isn't the way to go. A hard serve that comes back leaves you too far back. I can use heavy spin, but for me at least a topspin serve motion is not compatible with moving to the net. The tactic I've found that works is actually to take pace off and try to place it well. A moderate pace/moderate spin serve that is on the T or out wide gives you time to get in and prevents them from getting a good whack on the ball.

 

[rchjr2091]

What you are seeing is not unusual. For me at least, the serve and volley serve motion is different. You have to get to the net, so my SV motion the back foot steps through into the court, and that motion takes some getting used to.

I say you should do concerted practice on the SV motion, treat it like its own thing.

I also find that power isn't the way to go. A hard serve that comes back leaves you too far back. I can use heavy spin, but for me at least a topspin serve motion is not compatible with moving to the net. The tactic I've found that works is actually to take pace off and try to place it well. A moderate pace/moderate spin serve that is on the T or out wide gives you time to get in and prevents them from getting a good whack on the ball.

Good info . Thanks

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I have gotten to where I really like to serve and volley in singles and doubles. Not every point but enough to make my opponent know it's a tool in my toolbox. My issue is I have a very dependable serve but when I start trying to serve and volley during a match I find I start missing my first serve (when I'm thinking of running to the net) , it's just enough to make me get aggravated and cut back on doing it.

Anyone else ever experience something similar? If so any tips to push past it ?

How comfortable are you volleying in NML? A lot of people aren't very comfortable which either leads them to A) stay back and wait for a short ball; or B) rush to try and whiz through NML, which could include rushing the serve.

I find that I tend to serve more conservatively in doubles vs singles because I just want to get to the net and am not worried about getting passed a lot. High-level players don't hold back but I don't have a big serve so I tend to focus more on placement than power.

 

[Chotobaka]

You can also try dropping the pace of your first serves 5-10% when going s&v.
Having a high first serve rate will also put pressure on the opponent.

Definitely a viable alternative so long as it isn't a cream-puff. This also gives server more time and get closer to the net for the first volley. However, the serve cannot just be dialed back -- there has to be enough action on the ball to create some challenge for the receiver. Edberg was a great example of this approach to S&V. A Pat Rafter style first serve is another to be emulated for this.

 

[rchjr2091]

How comfortable are you volleying in NML? A lot of people aren't very comfortable which either leads them to A) stay back and wait for a short ball; or B) rush to try and whiz through NML, which could include rushing the serve.

I find that I tend to serve more conservatively in doubles vs singles because I just want to get to the net and am not worried about getting passed a lot. High-level players don't hold back but I don't have a big serve so I tend to focus more on placement than power.

I'm comfortable in NML but I'm sure I'm been programmed to get out of there as fast as I can ...so I probably do rush through there faster than I "have to".
I am actually probably to quick to get to the net sometimes...as in my shot didn't cause enough damage to warrant rushing the net. I'm working on this (the patience part) but I enjoy it and if it's just playing for fun ... I like the challenge of them trying to pass me. Now lobs are another story .. I loathe them!

 

[rchjr2091]

Definitely a viable alternative so long as it isn't a cream-puff. This also gives server more time and get closer to the net for the first volley. However, the serve cannot just be dialed back -- there has to be enough action on the ball to create some challenge for the receiver. Edberg was a great example of this approach to S&V. A Pat Rafter style first serve is another to be emulated for this.

Cream puff .. lol .. I like it when a player eats my lunch when I powder puff my serve in ...I tell them " I deserved losing that point "

I have gotten to where I like watching the old You Tube videos of serve and volley players. Just looking at different styles of players I find interesting.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I'm comfortable in NML but I'm sure I'm been programmed to get out of there as fast as I can ...so I probably do rush through there faster than I "have to".

My advice on that is "be patient". Some coaches preach that if you have to volley in NML or if you have to half-volley, you didn't close fast enough. I think this is false. Fast serves and fast returns guarantee you will volley in NML or HV [or both]. it's better that you're in a balanced position volleying in NML compared to out-of-balance in front of the SL. Once you accept that volleying in NML is the price of entry into the net, it might make you less likely to rush.

I am actually probably to quick to get to the net sometimes...as in my shot didn't cause enough damage to warrant rushing the net. I'm working on this (the patience part) but I enjoy it and if it's just playing for fun ... I like the challenge of them trying to pass me. Now lobs are another story .. I loathe them!

Gotta practice them OHs! Many a doubles team have broken down because the other team "just lobbed us to death" [well, you should have overheaded them to death!]. A solid OH [nothing overpowering, mind you] will make you a great dubs partner to have.

I have the same problem with coming to the net when I should have waited. I need more patience to construct the point.

 

[scotus]

Definitely a viable alternative so long as it isn't a cream-puff. This also gives server more time and get closer to the net for the first volley. However, the serve cannot just be dialed back -- there has to be enough action on the ball to create some challenge for the receiver. Edberg was a great example of this approach to S&V. A Pat Rafter style first serve is another to be emulated for this.

Edberg is my favorite player and I used to rush to the service line for the first volley like Edberg, but I realized that it led to many errors because I didn't have anything close to Edberg's court sense, balance and most importantly volley skills.

Nowadays I find myself using more of the Sampras approach, where I split-step after taking just a step or two into the "no man's land." I don't have anything resembling Sampras' serve, either, but what this gives me is a chance to observe the return and use my forehand groundstroke to attack or put away a lot of balls that I would have had to dig out from my feet had I rushed in like Edberg. It also gives me the option to run in further for a putaway volley if I get a high cream-puff return or get back to the baseline if needs be.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Edberg is my favorite player and I used to rush to the service line for the first volley like Edberg, but I realized that it led to many errors because I didn't have anything close to Edberg's court sense, balance and most importantly volley skills.

Nowadays I find myself using more of the Sampras approach, where I split-step after taking just a step or two into the "no man's land." I don't have anything resembling Sampras' serve, either, but what this gives me is a chance to observe the return and use my forehand groundstroke to attack or put away a lot of balls that I would have had to dig out from my feet had I rushed in like Edberg. It also gives me the option to run in further for a putaway volley if I get a high cream-puff return or get back to the baseline if needs be.

I think the fundamental problem that you've figured out is to split-step on the basis of *when* your opponent is contacting the ball, not *where* you are in the court [or were you not split-stepping when you were emulating Edberg?]. I think too often people who are uncomfortable with volleying want to know exactly where on the court they should be split-stepping and it's a mistake, IMO, because where you end up splitting is completely situational. When you split is the key.

 

[scotus]

I think the fundamental problem that you've figured out is to split-step on the basis of *when* your opponent is contacting the ball, not *where* you are in the court [or were you not split-stepping when you were emulating Edberg?]. I think too often people who are uncomfortable with volleying want to know exactly where on the court they should be split-stepping and it's a mistake, IMO, because where you end up splitting is completely situational. When you split is the key.

I was split-stepping for the "Edberg way" as well, but I think because I was rushing (even with the split), I was making more errors. Being around the service line also meant that I had to half-volley quite a bit. Also, many of my first volleys were not good enough to be winners or set up for an easy second volley putaway. But I found out that if I stayed back a few feet in the no man's land, then I can actually do much better by using my forehand groundstroke, which is a far more powerful shot for me. It's like getting a short ball to attack more often.

But you do make a good point with the distinction between when and where to split step. Thank you for that.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

When players are having issues with serve and volley, it is generally one of two things. Either they don't serve well enough or don't volley well enough. Lol. Well, three things. They may not hit overheads well enough, because you know those are coming.

Kidding aside, as a poster has already said. Hit the serve first. It's likely you are moving your head down early because of running in, making your serve come up short.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I have gotten to where I really like to serve and volley in singles and doubles. Not every point but enough to make my opponent know it's a tool in my toolbox. My issue is I have a very dependable serve but when I start trying to serve and volley during a match I find I start missing my first serve (when I'm thinking of running to the net) , it's just enough to make me get aggravated and cut back on doing it.

Anyone else ever experience something similar? If so any tips to push past it ?

As mentioned by others... I had the same problems:
1. in my eagerness to get to net, i rushed through service motion, so it became more of horizontal serve, vs. a vertical up and into the ball serve (ie. less spin == less margin over the net)
SOL: hit the serve first, then move in... slowly decrease the gap between finishing your serving, and stepping through to net, and don't take shortcuts in your eagerness to get to net
2. dropped my head too quickly to see where the ball wsa going to be returned (stil have this issue!)

Next big issue:
a. not split stepping on opponent contact, because I'm too eager to close for the "easy" sitter,.. problem is when you play good players and/or folks that can return your serve, you start running through the volley, not getting your body in the ideal position... i always thought i need to get to at least the service line, which is not true... especially as your serve gets bigger and the returns get bigger.

Other:
* would be interesting to see if you foot fault on s&v serves vs. stay-at-baseline serves (i did)

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Next big issue:
a. not split stepping on opponent contact, because I'm too eager to close for the "easy" sitter,.. problem is when you play good players and/or folks that can return your serve, you start running through the volley, not getting your body in the ideal position... i always thought i need to get to at least the service line, which is not true... especially as your serve gets bigger and the returns get bigger.

One group I play with has a guy who does not split at all. He is enormously successful when S&V because he makes contact so close to the net. Most of the other guys haven't figured this out and keep trying to hit through him.

I could chip lob the return since it's impossible for him to reverse directions but there's no challenge in that so I work on dipping my return. When I fail, he clobbers the volley.

 

[rchjr2091]

I played a good player yesterday. 3 sets.
I worked on it being two steps. 1. Serve. 2. run forward. I had them combined and didn't realize it.
Definitely will continue working on the out wide serve as that sure makes the volley easier.
I'm gonna get some video soon and really break down the process. ( should be humbling!)

 

[Doc Hollidae]

I have gotten to where I really like to serve and volley in singles and doubles. Not every point but enough to make my opponent know it's a tool in my toolbox. My issue is I have a very dependable serve but when I start trying to serve and volley during a match I find I start missing my first serve (when I'm thinking of running to the net) , it's just enough to make me get aggravated and cut back on doing it.

Anyone else ever experience something similar? If so any tips to push past it ?

Are you hitting a flat or slice first and then a kicker for a second? Part of the reason you may feel rushed is just the timing. With a kicker you have a little more time to get to the net, so you may not feel as rushed.

 

[rchjr2091]

Are you hitting a flat or slice first and then a kicker for a second? Part of the reason you may feel rushed is just the timing. With a kicker you have a little more time to get to the net, so you may not feel as rushed.

Background: up until 4 weeks ago s&v wasn't anything I really was passionate about. I mean it wasn't a priority.
Before I was happy to get my first serve in with a slice or flat, kick serve wasn't anything I spent a lot of time practicing. I would hit one but I wasn't very confident with it . That is about to change as I need that tool now.
My dad is 68 and still plays tennis. We have gotten to where we routinely play together. He is moving from Florida to Alabama. I use our time to practice " new " things. (Obviously he isn't the player he once was but I am thankful he is still as good as he is)
So I started S&V with him and realized I should have been doing this in singles more a long time ago.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Background: up until 4 weeks ago s&v wasn't anything I really was passionate about. I mean it wasn't a priority.
Before I was happy to get my first serve in with a slice or flat, kick serve wasn't anything I spent a lot of time practicing. I would hit one but I wasn't very confident with it . That is about to change as I need that tool now.
My dad is 68 and still plays tennis. We have gotten to where we routinely play together. He is moving from Florida to Alabama. I use our time to practice " new " things. (Obviously he isn't the player he once was but I am thankful he is still as good as he is)
So I started S&V with him and realized I should have been doing this in singles more a long time ago.

Excellent! Welcome to the club: it's relatively small so one more member is a big increase!

 

[Nostradamus]

I have gotten to where I really like to serve and volley in singles and doubles. Not every point but enough to make my opponent know it's a tool in my toolbox. My issue is I have a very dependable serve but when I start trying to serve and volley during a match I find I start missing my first serve (when I'm thinking of running to the net) , it's just enough to make me get aggravated and cut back on doing it.

Anyone else ever experience something similar? If so any tips to push past it ?

yes, that is normal. you have to toss more in front of you when serving and volleying so if you are not used to it then it may make you get off your rhythm or pull down too quickly on the serve motion. Just Practice it til you feel comfortable with it.....Practice serving and staying back and serving and volleying every other point.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Practice serving and staying back and serving and volleying every other point.

Hmm: to solve a problem of getting used to the S&V rhythm, I advise Sing&Ving every time which means you'll get twice as much practice during a match than if you only S&Vd every other point. Same thing applies to R&V [return and volley] [I typically attempt it on the 2nd serve unless the server has a weak 1st]. I'm not sure what staying back every other point will accomplish. @rchjr2091 already knows what it feels like to stay back.

 

[Todd Hicks]

Believe in yourself, don't overdo it and don't do anything different just because of the situation if you're unsure of it.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

One group I play with has a guy who does not split at all. He is enormously successful when S&V because he makes contact so close to the net. Most of the other guys haven't figured this out and keep trying to hit through him.

I could chip lob the return since it's impossible for him to reverse directions but there's no challenge in that so I work on dipping my return. When I fail, he clobbers the volley.

i'm surprised he also doesn't have issues when volleying low, dtl, or wide.... or even into his body (basically i had issues hitting any quality return that forced me to change directions even slightly).
but yeah, the chip lob return is the obvious choice when i see someone crashing into the net....

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

i'm surprised he also doesn't have issues when volleying low, dtl, or wide.... or even into his body (basically i had issues hitting any quality return that forced me to change directions even slightly).
but yeah, the chip lob return is the obvious choice when i see someone crashing into the net....

He does have those issues in varying degrees: the more he has to change direction, the more difficult the volley. But he puts away a pretty high % of his 1st volleys simply because the returner doesn't recognize his strategy.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

He does have those issues in varying degrees: the more he has to change direction, the more difficult the volley. But he puts away a pretty high % of his 1st volleys simply because the returner doesn't recognize his strategy.

so that's exactly what made me get into the habit of not split stepping... works great if returners are feeding easy-ish returns in my vicinity... but as soon as i started playing better opponents... ie. vary returns:
* chip low
* chip lob
* dtl
* wide
* etc...
I realized i missed alot of 1st volleys due to not split stepping, in my eagerness to close on an easy volley (which came rarely).

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

so that's exactly what made me get into the habit of not split stepping... works great if returners are feeding easy-ish returns in my vicinity... but as soon as i started playing better opponents... ie. vary returns:
* chip low
* chip lob
* dtl
* wide
* etc...
I realized i missed alot of 1st volleys due to not split stepping, in my eagerness to close on an easy volley (which came rarely).

Yup: nothing worse than being rewarded for bad technique because that just re-enforces it!

Fortunately, I had a very solid HS coach who wouldn't put up with bad technique and those lessons have stuck with me over the years.

Then I watch videos of the Bryan brothers at the net and realize how little I'm actually moving my feet!