Serve ball toss during motion help

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
I've struggled with my toss for years and it's what's destroying my serve and my confidence to play matches vs. just hitting or clinics so I'd really like to fix it. When I'm nervous it gets much worse, but sometimes even if if I'm relaxed it's still a problem. Of course usually if I have a coach look at my serve there's no issue, but in a match when it goes off I can have 2+ double faults a game. I've watched a ton of videos on the toss and tried changing the grip on the ball, wrist position, etc and still no luck.

When I'm warming up my serve and just toss the ball up without rocking and keep my legs still during the motion I'm able to toss much more consistently than during the match. I also noticed when I get nervous I tend to rush and I bring my front foot parallel to the baseline and open up my body.

Since I can toss relatively effectively without the rocking motion I figure there must be something I'm doing wrong during the rocking motion. I haven't found a lot of instruction about how to incorporate the timing of the full motion with the toss. Seems like rocking, bending your legs, twisting, etc would have a huge impact on tossing the ball. Could I have the wrong timing releasing the ball or could I be rocking at an angle that messes up the toss?
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
At 1:35 she addresses that using your backswing can affect the toss, but then doesn't address how and explains only about the tossing arm and hand. I just can't find any tips on how the motion affects the toss.

 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
How about trying a very low ball toss? The other option could be a smaller arm motion like Djokovic. He starts tossing with his hand being quite high up unlike Fed who brings the tossing hand all the way down and touches his thigh. Smaller the motion easier to control, maybe.
 

golden chicken

Hall of Fame
I rock back, pause, toss, and then continue into the rest of my service motion. If I try to do it all in one continuous motion, my toss goes all over the place.
 

mikeler

Moderator
Try staying still and only allow your arm to move. Assuming you are locking everything (wrist and elbow not moving), you may be letting go of the ball too early. You are getting nervous and rushing to get the ball out of your hand. Do a few practice tosses where you hold onto the ball all the way above your head but don't let go. It will get you used to holding onto the ball longer. It's always tough to diagnose these issues without video so I could be way off the mark.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Something I try to do is to first toss and then get into the serve motion - kinda like Sampras did. This might help.

But Sampras had a fairly high toss. Not as high as Sharapova's toss but quite a bit higher than Federer's toss. Not for everyone. In the video below, it appears that the ball falls 2 feet or more, about a racquet's length, from the ball toss peak when Pete makes contact with the ball.


The timing of the knee bend, body coil, etc will often depend on toss height. Players with low tosses need to make those adjustment as the ball is released or even before the ball is released.
 
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dennis

Semi-Pro
Obviously there are lots of different ways to have a good toss/serve but IME people get the best results by rocking forward as the tossing arm is going up and having a gap between the tossing arm going up and the racket going up. I find it easier to start twisting (turning away) early rather than later. Can you take a video of your serve?
And it's common to see people's rhythms hindering their serve; they might be better off getting rid of all the rocking, foot movements, big knee bends etc and just moving everything as slow as possible until the last moment ie the trophy pose position.
 
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samarai

Semi-Pro
what has helped me is to have a consistent routine and to slow down on the early stages of the serve. Especially on the toss and take back.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
I've struggled with my toss for years and it's what's destroying my serve and my confidence to play matches vs. just hitting or clinics so I'd really like to fix it. When I'm nervous it gets much worse, but sometimes even if if I'm relaxed it's still a problem. Of course usually if I have a coach look at my serve there's no issue, but in a match when it goes off I can have 2+ double faults a game. I've watched a ton of videos on the toss and tried changing the grip on the ball, wrist position, etc and still no luck.

When I'm warming up my serve and just toss the ball up without rocking and keep my legs still during the motion I'm able to toss much more consistently than during the match. I also noticed when I get nervous I tend to rush and I bring my front foot parallel to the baseline and open up my body.

Since I can toss relatively effectively without the rocking motion I figure there must be something I'm doing wrong during the rocking motion. I haven't found a lot of instruction about how to incorporate the timing of the full motion with the toss. Seems like rocking, bending your legs, twisting, etc would have a huge impact on tossing the ball. Could I have the wrong timing releasing the ball or could I be rocking at an angle that messes up the toss?
how often do you practice?
i struggle with my toss... but practice has helped alot... (duh)
i've consistently been hitting ~100 serves every day that i'm not playing (winter time, slightly less practice), for the last 2y or so (since @J011yroger posted his serve challenge thread)
but i still find myself having to retoss in matches

some other tips that helped:
* look at toss target, before i toss (vs. watching the ball go up)
* toss, then load (technically i toss when i step forward into pinpoint)
* start my toss hand on my thigh (ie. a consistent starting spot)
* make sure the ball is not spinning
* occasionally practice serving with eyes closed.

other issues i encourntered
* any time i tweak a power source (legs, shoulder drop, coil, hip), my toss is affected,even if slightly

but seriously, i think the serve (and toss), just need to practiced alot... like free throws in basketball, to get to a high %
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
how often do you practice?
i struggle with my toss... but practice has helped alot... (duh)
i've consistently been hitting ~100 serves every day that i'm not playing (winter time, slightly less practice), for the last 2y or so (since @J011yroger posted his serve challenge thread)
but i still find myself having to retoss in matches

some other tips that helped:
* look at toss target, before i toss (vs. watching the ball go up)
* toss, then load (technically i toss when i step forward into pinpoint)
* start my toss hand on my thigh (ie. a consistent starting spot)
* make sure the ball is not spinning
* occasionally practice serving with eyes closed.

other issues i encourntered
* any time i tweak a power source (legs, shoulder drop, coil, hip), my toss is affected,even if slightly

but seriously, i think the serve (and toss), just need to practiced alot... like free throws in basketball, to get to a high %

Put a target on the ground when you practice your toss.

J
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Put a target on the ground when you practice your toss.

J
i carry 2 dozen flattish cones with me, and set them up in groups in my target areas, all the time... nothing better than seeing them "explode" on a well hit serve.
these days i can usually hit the cones 2-3 times in 100 serves.... but it's a bit depressing if i leave without hitting a single cone :p
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
i carry 2 dozen flattish cones with me, and set them up in groups in my target areas, all the time... nothing better than seeing them "explode" on a well hit serve.
these days i can usually hit the cones 2-3 times in 100 serves.... but it's a bit depressing if i leave without hitting a single cone :p

I mean toss targets. Put a cone 2' inside the baseline and in line with your right shoulder for a first serve.

J
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
I mean toss targets. Put a cone 2' inside the baseline and in line with your right shoulder for a first serve.

J
ah, yeah, i do that alot too... mostly during indoor tennis season...
my routine is to typically show up 30m early from my scheduled court time...
and if i can't sneak onto the court early, i'll spend 30m practicing my toss with a full loading motion, and monitor where my toss is landing (aiming for consistency)
while i'm not formally putting a cone down on an actual court, and i'm positioning myself somewhere in the lobby, and finding a spot on the ground relative to my starting serving spot (equiv to putting a cone 2' inside the baseline)

i occasionally get comments along the lines of "wow, i can't believe you did that same move for 30 minutes" :p
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Try staying still and only allow your arm to move. Assuming you are locking everything (wrist and elbow not moving), you may be letting go of the ball too early. You are getting nervous and rushing to get the ball out of your hand. Do a few practice tosses where you hold onto the ball all the way above your head but don't let go. It will get you used to holding onto the ball longer. It's always tough to diagnose these issues without video so I could be way off the mark.

It's true that when I get nervous I tend to release too early and rush the whole motion. I feel like my heart is beating a million times a second and I just want to get the serve over with so I can start the point
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
I rock back, pause, toss, and then continue into the rest of my service motion. If I try to do it all in one continuous motion, my toss goes all over the place.

I just tried this and it was extremely helpful! My toss was probably more consistent than it's ever been and my serve was pretty good. I always thought the serve motion should be continuous so I always immediately rocked forward after being back. The only issue I had with some of the serves was timing the ball as I think the pause may have slightly affected my rhythm. That being said it a night and day improvement to the toss and the serve. Thank you!
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
how often do you practice?
i struggle with my toss... but practice has helped alot... (duh)
i've consistently been hitting ~100 serves every day that i'm not playing (winter time, slightly less practice), for the last 2y or so (since @J011yroger posted his serve challenge thread)
but i still find myself having to retoss in matches

some other tips that helped:
* look at toss target, before i toss (vs. watching the ball go up)
* toss, then load (technically i toss when i step forward into pinpoint)
* start my toss hand on my thigh (ie. a consistent starting spot)
* make sure the ball is not spinning
* occasionally practice serving with eyes closed.

other issues i encourntered
* any time i tweak a power source (legs, shoulder drop, coil, hip), my toss is affected,even if slightly

but seriously, i think the serve (and toss), just need to practiced alot... like free throws in basketball, to get to a high %

I've practiced a lot and been doing lessons and working on it for decades now. Ever since I was a little kid I've struggled with the toss. Sometimes it all flows perfectly and people watching my serve say I've got a great serve and it should be consistent. Other times I double fault over and over and get so frustrated I want to just give up.

After reading through all the suggestions here I tried tossing and then loading and it helped a lot. Best tossing I've ever done. I'll keep the other tips you mentioned for future reference
 

Steady Eddy

Legend
Good tips listed above. I think the toss is the hardest part of the sport.

I know I should practice it, but it's too boring to just practice a toss.
 
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