Serve Clock At U.S. Open This Year

octobrina10 said:
Hmm. The author obviously hasn't watched tennis, otherwise he would know who are well-known "ball bouncers."



The author's interpretation is pointless, Rafa says that he "can adapt easily to that".
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kOaMaster said:
let's see whether either of the usual suspects (nadal or djokovic) will play the US open anyway.
but I don't think it will change a lot, it will probably just calm down the discussions.
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Hmm. According to TTW posters, it was the guy in your avatar who was 'injured' during the 2017 US Open...
 
MichaelNadal said:
Anyone with half a brain knows Nadal isn't doing it to get an advantage, neither does it actually give him one. If anyone lets Nadal taking 27 seconds make them lose a match, they need to lose.
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Of course it's an advantage. Players who take more time than allowed, their serve percentage very well could drop if they'd play under the proper time limit due to being "rushed".
 
I'll believe it when I see ANYONE lose a point. Pretty sure majority will be given warnings, but after that umpires will adjust the start time to give some leeway and it will still be the same sh1tty system we have today.
 
zagor said:
The part about the fake news was spot on though (why I gave you a like). It's really getting tiring these days to see articles with bombastic, intentionally misleading headlines designed to generate cheap hits.

Shot Clock for the first time evar!!! Just for qualifier matches that aren't even televised and it's still in consideration, hasn't been actually implemented yet.

I wouldn't call time-wasting cheating but it sure ain't fair play either. Just becuse you know umpire will let you get away with it doesn't mean you should take advantage of it. It's not the average time that is the main problem, it's taking extra long on important points and icing the opponent.

With some faster surfaces recently and shot clock talk it seems the tennis authorities are trying to speed up the pace of the game a bit. It might be considered a problem that tennis faces in comparison with other sports, instead of having fixed time matches can take all day long depending on the surface and match-up.
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Fully agreed. Only my use of the term "cheating" was bait. Pretty obvious bait :D
 
AlexanderTheGreat08 said:
Lol they won’t do **** , If any umpire bothers Nadal or Djokovic, I will say they have balls
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BeatlesFan said:
Get ready to never hear it. Nadal is the second most popular tennis player and second most marketable. They will continue to allow him 35 seconds between first and second serves because he puts people in the stands. Simple as that.
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the clock is visible for everyone and (after he started it) the umpire would have to manually stop/interrupt it, else he's simply obliged to enforce the rule.

however:
Gary Duane said:
25 seconds would be a LOT faster than what has actually been going on. ;)
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i strongly believe that the umpires will directly be instructed to delay the start of the clock after every long rally.
and the 25 seconds instead of 20 are only so that players get used to the drill, so this may end up a bit slower even.

AiRFederer said:
I'll believe it when I see ANYONE lose a point. Pretty sure majority will be given warnings, but after that umpires will adjust the start time to give some leeway and it will still be the same sh1tty system we have today.
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lol, what do think is the sense of the shotclock then?
 
These are good rules. I wouldn't change much else.
marc45 said:
NYT:

"A warning to Rafael Nadal and other notorious tennis procrastinators: The dawdling days of time-wasting between points and games are coming to an end, at least at Flushing Meadows.

The United States Open will use a 25-second serve clock at this year’s event, which will be the first time such a system will be deployed in the main draw at a major tennis tournament.

Players will now have 25 seconds from the end of a point to serve for the next one. If they don’t, they will face the consequences: The first violation will incur a warning, followed by the loss of a point and then the loss of a game.

The U.S. Open will also enforce a seven-minute warm-up period before each match to ensure they start on time. Players will have one minute from the time they walk on court to meet at the net for the coin flip. Then they will have five minutes to warm up and another minute before the first serve. Violators could be fined $20,000.

Tennis is not the only sports seeking to speed up play. Major League Baseball has implemented a clock to limit the time between half-innings and has also restricted the number of mound visits allowed during games. M.L.B. is also interested in introducing a pitch clock similar to tennis’s serve clock. And the N.F.L. has tinkered with the number of commercial breaks and standardized the length of halftime.

“Pace of play is a major issue in sports today,” said Chris Widmaier, a spokesman for the United States Tennis Association, which owns the U.S. Open. “We recognize that and we want to be ahead of it.”

The U.S. Open experimented with the serve clock during last year’s non-main draw events, like the qualifying and juniors competitions. According to Widmaier, there were no major issues, other than minor grumbles, mostly from losing players.

Technically there was already a time limit in place: players at Grand Slam events were given only 20 seconds between points (25 seconds at other tour events). But that clock was only seen by the chair umpire and the rule was rarely, if ever, enforced, especially against top players.

Now an on-court clock will be visible to players and spectators alike, similar to the shot clock in basketball and the play clock in football. An extra five seconds will be granted to allow players to adjust to the new format, but it will be strictly enforced.

The chair umpire will run the 25-second clock and will be given leeway to delay the start of it in certain situations: after a particularly long point late in a grueling match, in hot and steamy conditions, or if there is a fan disturbance, for example.

Last year, the U.S. Open also experimented with coaching from the stands in the non-main draw events, but that innovation, which is allowed in certain smaller tournaments, is not expected to be implemented for the main draw. The Grand Slam Board, which consists of representatives of all four major tournaments, must approve all rule changes to any of the four events, and Wimbledon is resistant to coaching from the stands.

Nadal, with his constant fidgeting and ball bouncing, is considered to be among the most egregious time-wasters in the professional game, but he is not alone. Novak Djokovic has also been accused of being overly deliberate during matches. During the ATP Finals in London last November, Nadal made it clear he was not a fan of the new measures.

“I believe it is not something that is good for the future of the tour,” he told reporters, and added: “For me personally, I am not worried at all. I don’t want to play for 10 more years. I can adapt easily to that.”

If the serve clock goes smoothly at the U.S. Open, the other three major tournaments — the Australian Open, the French Open and Wimbledon — could introduce it at their events in the future."


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/sports/us-open-serve-clock.html?rref=collection/sectioncollection/tennis&action=click&contentCollection=tennis&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront
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van_Loederen said:
the clock is visible for everyone and (after he started it) the umpire would have to manually stop/interrupt it, else he's simply obliged to enforce the rule.

however:

i strongly believe that the umpires will directly be instructed to delay the start of the clock after every long rally.
and the 25 seconds instead of 20 are only so that players get used to the drill, so this may end up a bit slower even.


lol, what do think is the sense of the shotclock then?
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He has the prerogative to adjust the START time.
 
Should be waived in special scenarios like a long rally or some time of fall.
 
Regardless of what this proposal means in practice, it is not what almost everyone here meant by shot clock/serve clock in the previous discussions of this issue.
 
ironically i think this will help nadal (and any retriever type)... he's one of fittest guys on the tour... so he'll still extend the points, but now "big servers" will have less time to get their heart rate down.
 
Yes, well, that would be ironic but your heart rate argument is not really convincing.

nytennisaddict said:
ironically i think this will help nadal (and any retriever type)... he's one of fittest guys on the tour... so he'll still extend the points, but now "big servers" will have less time to get their heart rate down.
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So theoretically it's warning, point, game, set, and match penalty?

No way the umps will have the guts to enforce this, too many factors of when to START the clock. Rally, length of point, crowd reaction, challenges, side changes, equipment clothing changes.

Sorry Rafa haters, this won't make any difference on the goats
 
Bartelby said:
Yes, well, that would be ironic but your heart rate argument is not really convincing.
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i'm excited to see what will happen. my guess... retrievers will have the advantage with the shot clock.
 
Backspin1183 said:
Great news. Instead of 20 seconds, it will be 25 seconds. The whiners will still whine though. That's what they do.
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Yup nadal is whining about. See article. He would have at least 5 slams if his cheating was called from start of his career. Although he probably would have developed into different type of player, more aggressive so cant say for sure - although he doesnt do as well when being aggressive
 
octobrina10 said:
Hmm. The author obviously hasn't watched tennis, otherwise he would know who are well-known "ball bouncers."



The author's interpretation is pointless, Rafa says that he "can adapt easily to that".
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Above (quoted) more wishful thinking. Nadal is one of worst offenders in cheating between points. This rule might as well be named after him. Informally i bet it will be
 
Sudacafan said:
Isner/Karlovic play style will be a must.
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Why servebotting??!!
Players can choose to play attractive and astonishing agressive, all-court, focused-on-hitting-winners tennis instead of playing boring passive, several-feets-behind-baseline, grinding, focused-on-producing-UFE-from-opponent tennis.......

zagor said:
At his AO match against Cilic, it was Marin who has getting time violation despite Nadal taking more to serve
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Yeah and that Croatian swearings from cilic then afterwards and firing up his internal explosive which exploded 83 times in match..

octobrina10 said:
He benefitted from Rafa's misfortune (retiring due to injury).
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Yeah, rafa never loses, he just tanks the match/rusty/out-of-form or gas/injured etc...
 
Mr.Lob said:
LOL. You have the stats? I'm thinking he'll be gaining at least a second or two.:D
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I timed players a lot, just to see what is going on. Players like Fed are always way faster than the rules. Nadal was one of the slowest, often over 30 seconds, and sometimes over 35. But he's not the only one, and it really does not happen all the time. @MichaelNadal said he averages around 26 seconds. He's probably right. Having to be under 25 would be at least a bit faster. ;)
 
van_Loederen said:
i strongly believe that the umpires will directly be instructed to delay the start of the clock after every long rally.
and the 25 seconds instead of 20 are only so that players get used to the drill, so this may end up a bit slower even.
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I have not yet seen a match with a clock.

Supposedly the clock is started after the end of the last point. That has to be modified by things like crowd noise and other disturbances. The big thing would be for all of us to see what is going on. That would literally be a game changer.
 
Backspin1780 said:
Yup nadal is whining about. See article. He would have at least 5 slams if his cheating was called from start of his career. Although he probably would have developed into different type of player, more aggressive so cant say for sure - although he doesnt do as well when being aggressive
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Mini-Me, your post is an example of a whiny one. But that's exactly why you chose your username and joined tennistalk.
 
Gary Duane said:
Supposedly the clock is started after the end of the last point. That has to be modified by things like crowd noise and other disturbances.
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the clock starts when the umpire logs the score/point in his board (afaik).
TahoeTennis said:
So theoretically it's warning, point, game, set, and match penalty?
No way the umps will have the guts to enforce this, too many factors of when to START the clock. Rally, length of point, crowd reaction, challenges, side changes, equipment clothing changes.
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they can interrupt and probably even reset the clock in such cases
and if hecklers disturb right when a player tosses the ball to serve and stops, then the penalty will not be imposed directly automatically. the umpire still has to decide.
with the shotclock will he however need infinitely less guts in cases when a player lets the clock run down for no reason.
nytennisaddict said:
my guess... retrievers will have the advantage with the shot clock.
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the advantage is on players who don't tend to delay their serves and that's rather big servers/attackers.
 
van_Loederen said:
the clock starts when the umpire logs the score/point in his board (afaik).

they can interrupt and probably even reset the clock in such cases
and if hecklers disturb right when a player tosses the ball to serve and stops, then the penalty will not be imposed directly automatically. the umpire still has to decide.
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I timed starting the moment the ball was out from the last point, to find out what the timing would be if there is no interval. But I assumed - and still assume - that the important thing is when the umpire starts the clock. We will be able to see in a few months how it is done, and and how different it is from ump to ump.
with the shotclock will he however need infinitely less guts in cases when a player lets the clock run down for no reason.

the advantage is on players who don't tend to delay their serves and that's rather big servers/attackers.
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It will make things fairer. It gives support to the umpires, because now we will all be able to see when players are breaking the rules. Things will be more transparent.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Nadal takes like 26 on average, and lots of times he averages under 25. He will be just fine, this thread is epicly showing insecurities and residual butthurt though ;)
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This is simply and demonstrably untrue. Throughout the USO last year, ESPN clocked him in 7 matches and his average was never below 29 seconds except in the Del Po match. Against earlier round opponents, it was 31 seconds, sometimes more.

In Shanghai, his averages were similar, all over 30 seconds. ESPN even had the graphic on the screen. How is this butthurt to point out that Nadal is never under the time limit?
 
Backspin1183 said:
Mini-Me, your post is an example of a whiny one. But that's exactly why you chose your username and joined tennistalk.
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What is the problem with his username.If his username was Backspin1183 yes but it is not.Plus you are here from almost 5 years,people should know you.Doubt they will mistake you for him or the opposite
 
Bartelby said:
Retrievers run more and therefore need more recovery time. Serving aces is not that exhausting. Your theory is extremely speculative.
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i've been known to go all in on an inside straight draw :P
 
Plamen1234 said:
What is the problem with his username.If his username was Backspin1183 yes but it is not.Plus you are here from almost 5 years,people should know you.Doubt they will mistake you for him or the opposite
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No problem with his/her username. It may be just a coincidence that all their posts are about Nadal, and not in a good way, since joining this forum.
 
Gary Duane said:
I timed players a lot, just to see what is going on. Players like Fed are always way faster than the rules. Nadal was one of the slowest, often over 30 seconds, and sometimes over 35. But he's not the only one, and it really does not happen all the time. @MichaelNadal said he averages around 26 seconds. He's probably right. Having to be under 25 would be at least a bit faster. ;)
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Wow. If he's ( and some others) averaging 26-30 seconds at slams ( with a 20 second limit), then looks like shot clocks the way to go... since the chair umpire aren't enforcing. Watching youtube videos of the guys, and ladies, in pre to early open era, they're about at 10-15 seconds. Not the long rallies, but they kept the action moving.
 
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marc45 said:
NYT:

The chair umpire will run the 25-second clock and will be given leeway to delay the start of it in certain situations: after a particularly long point late in a grueling match, in hot and steamy conditions, or if there is a fan disturbance, for example.
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This is great news to prevent continued cheating from Nadal. However, the part quoted above is still going to be a problem - it is biased against players who finish their points quickly. For baseline pushers, every point will be a long point and leeway should not be given. IF this leeway is allowed, then we don't really have a shot clock in place. The only place where leeway should be given is if there is a disturbance, eg. fans, bugs, etc. Nothing else. Doesn't matter how hot it is or how long the point is, the shot clock should rule regardless.
 
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/do-you-support-a-shot-clock.534309/page-5

To show how much can change in about 2 and 1/2 years.

It was mostly about Rafa back then. I don't see that much has changed.

The guys who were slow back then are still slow, those who are still playing.

I tried to make the point back then that the "rules" were being applied unevenly, and I got jumped on by @Bartelby for being prejudiced because of Nadal, which was never my point.

Fast forward - now it apparently is going to be used. It will be interesting to read about how fans accept or reject the clock. In principle I'm all for it and have been for years.
 
Mr.Lob said:
Wow. If he's averaging 26-30 seconds at slams ( with a 20 second limit), then looks like shot clocks the way to go... since the chair umpire aren't enforcing. Watching youtube videos of the guys, and ladies, in pre to early open era, they're about at 10-15 seconds. Not the long rallies, but they kept the action moving.
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Both Connors and JMac were often very slow. But I believe "back in the day" there were more players who were very fast. One bounce or even no bounces at all were common, probably because back then no one knew what the ball would do on grass. ;)

When they talk about "average time", we don't know when they are starting the timing. This whole process has been the very opposite of transparent because only the chair ump has known when he is starting the timing.
 
I doubt it's gonna affect Nadal much. He does this more as a mind game than out of habit. Jumping, making his opponent wait, always ensuring opponent walks across first on changeovers...you name it. He wants the intimidation factor of being able to be the boss and dictate the rules. In terms of his game though I have seen him adapt pretty well after being warned or during exhibitions, in which he took significantly less time. He really is too consistent and mentally strong for his focus to be broken like that. The whole thing is gamesmanship above anything else.
 
octobrina10 said:
Hmm. The author obviously hasn't watched tennis...

The author's interpretation is pointless, Rafa says that he "can adapt easily to that".
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NYT sports person does t watch tennis?

Sure he can beat lessor players just the same. But in a tight match the new rule is likely going to show some effect. At minimum he has to change his routine.
 
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