Serve Critique

[Breaker]

For the first time I decided to record myself hitting some serves, separate days. I'd like some advice on which motion to use and any tips if there are technical flaws in my stroke. Any advice is welcome. There are only 6 serves in each video but the main thing I'm looking for is if anything is wrong with the motion.

Motion 1 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrrtBtq7YFc

Motion 2 - leaning towards this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9u33f4KqY

Edit: 2 weeks later with attempted fixes..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shsl0viW-WQ

 

[saigonbond]

Greetings,
You have a fairly smooth flowing motion with no real hitches, which means you have a good base to improve from.
You should also record yourself from the side as well, so you can better see the toss and point of contact (hard to critique looking up from behind).
From what I can see from such a small sample, both are quite similar. You have better knee bend and are turned a bit more sideways in Motion#2, but your balance is better in Motion#1.
From these vids, it appears that you don't get full extension on your tossing arm (trophy pose) or your swinging arm at contact. This robs you of both power and spin.
The other mechanical flaw is what you do with your tossing arm as you make swing and make contact. You have the tendency to stick out your arm away from your body after you toss the ball. This causes you to drop your head so that you hit down instead of up and out (Andy Murray has this issue). Try bringing that arm in close to your chest (kinda like you're giving yourself a hug).
Cheers!

 

[Breaker]

Greetings,
You have a fairly smooth flowing motion with no real hitches, which means you have a good base to improve from.
You should also record yourself from the side as well, so you can better see the toss and point of contact (hard to critique looking up from behind).
From what I can see from such a small sample, both are quite similar. You have better knee bend and are turned a bit more sideways in Motion#2, but your balance is better in Motion#1.
From these vids, it appears that you don't get full extension on your tossing arm (trophy pose) or your swinging arm at contact. This robs you of both power and spin.
The other mechanical flaw is what you do with your tossing arm as you make swing and make contact. You have the tendency to stick out your arm away from your body after you toss the ball. This causes you to drop your head so that you hit down instead of up and out (Andy Murray has this issue). Try bringing that arm in close to your chest (kinda like you're giving yourself a hug).
Cheers!

Thanks for the advice mate. The trophy pose with the tossing arm I never noticed before recording but stuck out big time when reviewing it. A few practice serves with the full extension definitely helped add more kick which is the biggest weakness I have I think (I usually resort to a slice second serve for this reason).

The dropping the head issue is something I'll work on, I actually started moving the arm away from the body a while ago since I felt it kept me more balanced, didn't know it led to a technical flaw as well.

This post helped a lot, will keep it in mind for my next serve session and attempt to work it out and hopefully add a bit more pace to it. Also will look at those different camera angles for next time, thanks again!

 

[charliefedererer]

Greetings,
You have a fairly smooth flowing motion with no real hitches, which means you have a good base to improve from.
You should also record yourself from the side as well, so you can better see the toss and point of contact (hard to critique looking up from behind).
From what I can see from such a small sample, both are quite similar. You have better knee bend and are turned a bit more sideways in Motion#2, but your balance is better in Motion#1.
From these vids, it appears that you don't get full extension on your tossing arm (trophy pose) or your swinging arm at contact. This robs you of both power and spin.
The other mechanical flaw is what you do with your tossing arm as you make swing and make contact. You have the tendency to stick out your arm away from your body after you toss the ball. This causes you to drop your head so that you hit down instead of up and out (Andy Murray has this issue). Try bringing that arm in close to your chest (kinda like you're giving yourself a hug).
Cheers!

Great analysis and advice!

 

[Breaker]

Right, updated the motion a bit by trying to make the extension longer and tucking in after contact. Filmed this one from the side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shsl0viW-WQ

*edited into first post.

 

[saigonbond]

Your hard work looks to be paying off. Nice toss extension, nice contact extension, head up, great balance. I'll bet a few more mph and easier spin generation as well. Nice work man! The miracle of modern technology, when you can see yourself and coach yourself from self recorded vid.

The next evolution will be to work on a bit more knee bend and tempo. Small, simple tweaks really.
1.) Knee bend.
It will help you load up, then power up and into the ball. Hitting up and into the ball will help you from not hitting down, keeping your body alignment long and tall for maximum uncoiling. As you work on your knee bend, your left hip will need to move slightly more into the court (kinda like you're giving someone a knudge with your hip). The more knee bend, the slightly bigger knudge. If the bend throws off your balance you may have to decrease it slightly or vary or stance slightly.
2.) Tempo.
Take your time, no need to rush yourself. Coming from a martial arts background, I sometimes discuss Bruce Lee's concept of "Water" with my student athletes and club students. Water can flow softly and smoothly, but also can be powerful enough to crush steel. Bruce said, "Be like water my friend."
3.) Muscle memory.
There's no shortcut for practice.

Great stuff and good luck man,
CHEERS!

 

[GetBetterer]

More foot push, more follow through.

Also a better trophy pose that winds up the energy, so you may want to toss a little higher and let it drop a few centimeters.

 

[Nellie]

It looks to me like you are slowing down prior to contact with the ball. You are following through low, but it seems like that is an intentional motion rather than a result of accelerating through the ball. Try to hit through the ball and continue to power past the ball. It may help to to think of hitting something low, like hammering a nail, where contact with the ball just happens to occur along the way.

 

[LeftSHBH]

Knee bend, it's amazing how much power you get when you explode into the serve. Along with that, make sure you get enough shoulder turn.

 

[Breaker]

Your hard work looks to be paying off. Nice toss extension, nice contact extension, head up, great balance. I'll bet a few more mph and easier spin generation as well. Nice work man! The miracle of modern technology, when you can see yourself and coach yourself from self recorded vid.

The next evolution will be to work on a bit more knee bend and tempo. Small, simple tweaks really.
1.) Knee bend.
It will help you load up, then power up and into the ball. Hitting up and into the ball will help you from not hitting down, keeping your body alignment long and tall for maximum uncoiling. As you work on your knee bend, your left hip will need to move slightly more into the court (kinda like you're giving someone a knudge with your hip). The more knee bend, the slightly bigger knudge. If the bend throws off your balance you may have to decrease it slightly or vary or stance slightly.
2.) Tempo.
Take your time, no need to rush yourself. Coming from a martial arts background, I sometimes discuss Bruce Lee's concept of "Water" with my student athletes and club students. Water can flow softly and smoothly, but also can be powerful enough to crush steel. Bruce said, "Be like water my friend."
3.) Muscle memory.
There's no shortcut for practice.

Great stuff and good luck man,
CHEERS!

Yeah I played one of my normal practice partners and the added spin/pace got me more free points than I can remember (it being very hot and humid probably had some to do with it as well!). I'm 5'9'' and the serve is the weakest part of my game so anything helps.

Knee bend and exploding into the ball are definitely the important factors, I might have to move my feet a little closer together to achieve this though since as you pointed out my balance gets thrown off when working on that with my current motion.

More foot push, more follow through.

Also a better trophy pose that winds up the energy, so you may want to toss a little higher and let it drop a few centimeters.

Yep, I experimented with a slightly higher ball toss yesterday and I found I could get up and through the ball better. I used to use a pinpoint stance and lower ball toss so getting out of that habit is something I'll work on as well.

It looks to me like you are slowing down prior to contact with the ball. You are following through low, but it seems like that is an intentional motion rather than a result of accelerating through the ball. Try to hit through the ball and continue to power past the ball. It may help to to think of hitting something low, like hammering a nail, where contact with the ball just happens to occur along the way.

I think this comes as a result of the relatively low ball toss and lack of proper knee bend as well, accelerating through is something that hopefully will come naturally with the tweaks and improving the shot, I'll definitely make this a priority.

Knee bend, it's amazing how much power you get when you explode into the serve. Along with that, make sure you get enough shoulder turn.

Will do, the practice courts await for added work in these areas.

Thanks for the advice all, more improvement to come