I found the part from 8:05 the most interesting. Hand going pretty much linearly forward while it’s the racket head that does the loop (swing)
Yeah, apparently the @Serve Doc thread is gone. Mods probably perceived it as self-promotional. That's a shame. Had he posted the same vid that you did? Don't see any content from him since 2015. (No threads at all started by Pat D have survived).
Well, at least he managed to give us a notice of his published content, and continues on his channel. So we can monitor and pick whatever we like for sharing and discussion...
The strokes are often described in short, easy to remember, phrases such as 'hand going linearly forward'.
It's a myth. A unicorn. You won't find it anywhere.
I liked it but "hand over the back foot" happens naturally.
Could you point out the times of a few of the forehands with this "hand over the back foot"?
Well you are good having it. The point is not to deliberately do it, but to check that you do, and if not - try to figure out what needs to be changed.
The issue is - Can you describe and communicate to readers a complex 3D tennis stroke using words that do not correspond to anything that can be observed in high speed videos?
Could you show "that brief position". You can count frame before impact using the period & comma keys to single frame.
Exactly. If you start the stroke with both hands on racquet, turn shoulders to the forehand side, take racquet back with 2 hands and then let go with non-hitting hand, it is extremely difficult to then bring the racquet to the ball without some amount of wrist lag and 'buttcap-pointing-at-ball'. If the racquet head was to instead lead the hand rather than following it, the ball is not going to go where you want (and so this problem will correct itself quite quickly or you will quit tennis).
Unfortunately, problems don’t correct themselves for everyone. I get how it’s hard to accept something seemingly working for a person doesn’t help everyone of tennis population, but it happens. We need personal approach and address particular issues in particular state. Heck, even pros have inefficiencies here and there, which haven’t corrected themselves!
Sure is, but I don't want that low power forehand. I believe the WTA forehand was created to produce a low-power but consistent shot.
You’re hitting harder than Halep?
Whether or not I hit harder isn't relevant. She doesn't have a powerful forehand for the women's tour. It's funny that you point out the video aspect. I had given you some feedback on your serve. You asked to see my serve. I posted it, reminding you that I'm coming off of shoulder surgery. You told me to take it easy and then pointed out you didn't think my serve was more powerful than yours. Again, not really relevant for a number of reasons.
I think it’s quite relevant if you think about the fact that she’s a world class player with that forehand while you and I are rec players.
How is your ad hominem argument relevant? I made a comment about the inefficiency of her technique. If you think she generates more power because of her hinged forehand ,as opposed to one that employs the full power of the kinetic chain, than make an argument. With your logic, none of us should be saying anything about the technique of players better than us. Wouldn't be much of a forum.
Absolutely correct observation. My tendency as a low level player is to pivot the racket at the handle as I find the optimal way ( pulling as you describe it) quite unintuitive. I can do it on shadow swings though and it’s the most effortless least resistance ( from inertia) way to swing the racket forward.
You know there are quite a few guys even on the tour with Halep style forehands, right??
Probably not the most powerful on tour. Right? I explained her forehand was geared toward consistency. I'm giving her her due, although it's certainly not incumbent upon me. I don't know why your undergarments are so rumpled over my observation. But I really don't care what a "low level player" thinks of my observation. If you have something constructive to contribute, that's something else.
the point is simple , Halep fh is great for you, me and millions of others as well. You thinking it’s not good enough for you is just arrogance.
More ad hominem nonsense. Were I to use Halep's technique, my forehand would have less power. Whether she can hit her forehand with more power than I is, once again, irrelevant.
Maybe you would be more consistent though.
As a (likely) stronger male, you should be able to hit the Halep FH even harder than she does as you likely have more muscular power and longer arms providing added leverage.
I don't know any of the fundamentals that this coach is showing. At least I'm not aware that I'm doing them or not in the way he describes.
Yes
Not sure what you're on about - the result of her power is nothing to do with her technique, and everything to do with her stature
I'm Romanian so I root for Halep (#2 WTA), but her FH doesn't have as much power as #10 WTA Sabalenka who distroyed everyone this week with an ATP FH with lag, despite her weight and poorer movement on the court.
"We" (me and other posters and also my coach who is a girl), understand the above, yet a male, especially a strong one is better served by an ATP FH with a compact takeback and more power.
Uhm, without looking too closely, all of them, or at least the first couple of FHs, beloning to Nadal and Roger?
If one object is 'over' another, then a vertical line, as shown by a plumb bob, from one object would go to the lower object.
Probably seen from the front, so yes to your 4th question.
OTOH Simona prevailed over Aryna in their last meeting -- QF at Dubai. And is still ahead, 3-1, in their h2h.
Great thing about Aryna is she sends monster balls seemingly out of nowhere at times, like rushed or semi-prepared. Unless familiar with TT wisdom on advantages of ATP techniques one may wonder how she does this!
As mentioned previously, Simona's Fh can be pretty effective even tho it's not quite as big as some of the most powerful FHs in the WTA. I came across an interesting match charting project from last year on Tennis Abstract for some data for the past decade or so.
I agree that Simona can hit her FH very well, especially I like her depth and topspin, often in the corners.
I agree this was the best part of the video and don't think he dealt with the butt cap use that well though.
So you think Dr Gordon study about this is debunked or are you just kidding around? While not perfectly linear, Imo there is a very nearly linear phase of the swing once in the slot towards contact, and especially pronounced when using the ATP backswing.
I agree with Dragy's point and there is also the idea of the 4 phases of becoming a "conscious" competent for aspects of your game. From my point of view, this view was just the opposite level and such a low res view that it is hardly worth watching. I like Pat and his effort to keep it simple, but Imo this was so basic that it doesn't do justice to him or IMG.
Interesting because one of the WTA women (Keys) had a higher avg Fh speed than the men by over 5 mph. Nobody has been able to show that a WTA takeback results in slower shots than the ATP takeback to my knowledge. I know some like you throw out that claim, but I think it lacks support. Soderling and Hewitt hit strong with the WTA takeback as well.
