I've watched a couple videos now where one instructor says to generate power you must jump up and into the court. Another video says that's a myth and he backed it up with a speed meter (forgot what they're called). Anyone have any thoughts on this? I tend to jump into the court when I'm in a groove, but maybe it'd just be easier to step through it. I think I do remember him saying that the jump does help with clearance over the net which I do agree with.
Serve - Jump / No Jump ?
- Thread starter JohnP480
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atp2015
Hall of Fame
In my case, the jump seems to add a sudden burst of momentum onto the ball and definitely 'feel' extra RHS. I'm able to jump only if I start the motion in the right form and with a stable setup. The ability to jump is an instant feedback to me that my serve motion prep was right.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
You should leave the ground if you are young (< age 65) and trying to serve your best. Since you are tossing the ball into the court the only way to get to it without foot faulting is to leave the ground and hit the ball. Yes 90% of RHS will come from the shoulders unwinding, the shoulder internally rotating and the elbow extending and forearm pronating in a kinetic chain. But the leg drive will add upward and forward momentum that will add speed and topspin to the ball. Whenever my topspin second serve is sailing long, there is usually only one problem: I'm not driving up with my legs. As soon as I concentrate on that, the topspin revs go up and the ball falls into the service box.
So yes, you should drive forward and upward if you are doing everything right. Is it a necessity to have a decent serve? No. But then you have to be that much better with your kinetic chain. Its a lot easier to add a leg drive IMO than develop a perfect kinetic chain.
So yes, you should drive forward and upward if you are doing everything right. Is it a necessity to have a decent serve? No. But then you have to be that much better with your kinetic chain. Its a lot easier to add a leg drive IMO than develop a perfect kinetic chain.
Thanks for the video! They are definitely young guns with fresh legs. I'm a 47 year old around a 4-4.5 level. Seems like I'm always tweaking my strokes for more economy of motion. At this point, I probably should stick with jumping a little into court as long as my legs allow me to do so. Hah
That's interesting that you brought that up with the topspin second serve. I never really thought about my legs when I miss it long. Good tip!
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
to me, i don't think of it as a "jump" (ok, technically it is), it's more "using my legs to help start accelerating my racquet up and into the contact point".
similar in basketball, doing a "jump shot" it allows me to shoot further (ie. accelerating the ball upward more than if i was flat footed).
the reason I don't like using "jump" as a visual, or as word to describe when teaching the serve... is that folks think that they are "jumping" to elevate the height of their contact point (ie. as a way to achieve more net clearance) - which, while might be true, prevents them from visualizing the racquet approaching the contact point from below to impart some spin (eg. topslice)
in terms of pace, using the legs maybe adds say 15% more rhs, but the bulk of your rhs is coming from your arm and trunk rotation.
from a learning standpoint, i find it's easier to teach complete beginners without addressing the legs as a power source (ie. because they are struggling with fundamentals like toss, grip, making contact, etc... but once they have a decent (upper body) serve motion, i'll focus on incorporating the legs.
my $0.02
similar in basketball, doing a "jump shot" it allows me to shoot further (ie. accelerating the ball upward more than if i was flat footed).
the reason I don't like using "jump" as a visual, or as word to describe when teaching the serve... is that folks think that they are "jumping" to elevate the height of their contact point (ie. as a way to achieve more net clearance) - which, while might be true, prevents them from visualizing the racquet approaching the contact point from below to impart some spin (eg. topslice)
in terms of pace, using the legs maybe adds say 15% more rhs, but the bulk of your rhs is coming from your arm and trunk rotation.
from a learning standpoint, i find it's easier to teach complete beginners without addressing the legs as a power source (ie. because they are struggling with fundamentals like toss, grip, making contact, etc... but once they have a decent (upper body) serve motion, i'll focus on incorporating the legs.
my $0.02
This comes up a lot. You first work on a throwing motion and then start using your legs to help you throw upward and forward.. This is what the legs are overrated people try to explain. if you don't have the throwing motion part down you cannot just 'tack on' the legs. OTOH if you do have a throwing motion it should feel pretty natural to add your legs..
Doc Hollidae
Hall of Fame
Love how they are grabbing balls from a cardboard box. You'd think Milos or even UCLA could afford a ball cart or basket.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
'Jump' happens naturally when you bend your knees, have good body/shoulder turn and arm/racquet acceleration.
I found that it helps to serve as if you're going to serve/volley every time.
I found that it helps to serve as if you're going to serve/volley every time.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I agree with nytennisaddict. The "jump" is much more of a "leg drive" phenomenon. If you are correct in your trophy position, you should naturally have your knees bent so you can drive upwards and forwards. Your "jump" will depend on the velocity of that leg drive and occur as a natural consequence rather than a forced action. That's why when I find I'm not driving up to the ball well, I concentrate not on jumping but on bending my knees on the toss. Then the upward drive happens in sync with the uncoiling of my throwing motion and is a natural action.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Better term for jump is "launch" into the serve. However someone like Dolgopolov sometimes jumps and hits the serve like the volleyball spiker hitting a quick 1 set.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
imo, what happens when "jump" is taken literally...
then again, I'd take that serve over my "technically correct" serve
. but obviously most pros do not serve like that.
then again, I'd take that serve over my "technically correct" serve
. but obviously most pros do not serve like that.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
About 10-15% of your power in the serve comes from the legs
Gotta jump if you're going for fast serves, for the net clearance and bigger court.
If you're just spinning your serves in, you're more accurate with barely leaving the ground, or staying attached.
However, you don't CHOOSE to jump or not. Your serve motion dictates what to do.
Driving the legs and body forwards uses up the "10-15" percent power.
If you're just spinning your serves in, you're more accurate with barely leaving the ground, or staying attached.
However, you don't CHOOSE to jump or not. Your serve motion dictates what to do.
Driving the legs and body forwards uses up the "10-15" percent power.
P
PittsburghDad
Guest
You're not jumping. Enough up/forward leg drive and you will leave the court. But not a "jump"
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Some people don't like to use the word "jump" because players might confuse it with a basketball jumpshot or a volleyball spike, both of which demand that you release/make contact at the apex for maximum height. In tennis, unless you're hitting a true jump serve like Battistone, the jump is a byproduct of pushing upwards. However, people like Macci use the word "jump" all of the time and no one seems to mis-interpret him.
P
PittsburghDad
Guest
My experience in actually conveying info is extremely limited. One student. I've absorbed a ton of info, some good, some bad. But I havent had to test out that info across multiple skill levels and multiple goals. I've never had good results with the word "jump" and quickly abandoned it. We just talked about leg drive and launching up and out. Pushing off the ground. As the serve got better and she got older she began just leaving the ground due to leg thrust. It just sort of happened. No emphasis on it. In a much more fluid and efficient way then a jump. Again, just my experience.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You and I have the same sample size: 1. For me, I was never taught to use my legs much so I'm trying to remedy that flaw. Having played both BB and VB, I understand the difference in how the word "jump" is applied vs tennis, so I don't have a problem with the word. However, I have seen others mis-interpret it so maybe that word should be stricken from the record ["The jury will disregard the 'j' word"].
Lance L
Semi-Pro
I think jumping is definitely the wrong way to think about it. Instead of thinking about jumping as a part of a good serve, I would recommend thinking this way: If my serve has all the elements in the right order, done properly, there is a good change my feet will come off the ground.
Even that it too much. A serve done well will have an upwards movement into contact. You are wanting to hit up at the ball and you need to get your body moving up to do that. I also think the jacknifing aspect at the waist has a tendency to pull the legs up. Some knee bend and and pushing up are certainl part of this
So even if my feet don't come off the ground it should feel light and up. Not on my tiptoe but more on point, if you will.
Getting both feet off the ground is at the bottom of the list of importance on our serves. And as I say above, I think moving up is less a thing to do and more a indicator of good technique elsewhere.
Even that it too much. A serve done well will have an upwards movement into contact. You are wanting to hit up at the ball and you need to get your body moving up to do that. I also think the jacknifing aspect at the waist has a tendency to pull the legs up. Some knee bend and and pushing up are certainl part of this
So even if my feet don't come off the ground it should feel light and up. Not on my tiptoe but more on point, if you will.
Getting both feet off the ground is at the bottom of the list of importance on our serves. And as I say above, I think moving up is less a thing to do and more a indicator of good technique elsewhere.
WildVolley
Legend
When timed correctly, jumping will help with power. I advise keeping it limited, at least when learning. The Soderling/Gulbis-style jump with a very deep knee bend and high leap isn't going to work well for most amateurs. Nor will the Battistone flying leap. The reason pros didn't used to jump was based on the rules. Probably all the men in the top 100 are in the air at contact.
A small hop is going to be helpful for most rec-players if they have the requisite athletic ability.
A small hop is going to be helpful for most rec-players if they have the requisite athletic ability.
no jump but you leave the ground if you push up to contact. I think there's a difference in thinking jump and thinking push. A major league baseball pitcher drives and pushes with his legs as should a tennis server. But, I'll probably take heat for this so jump if you must. But, drive and push with the legs up to high contact point and you will magically lift of the ground.
WildVolley
Legend
In other sports, going into the air by pushing off the ground is called jumping, or at least hopping. Tennis players have all been taught to freak out when hearing the word "jump."
Let's just say that the "jump" should be timed to the racquet-drop and should be an integral part of the service motion, unless you're that Battistone guy.
Simon_the_furry
Hall of Fame
It's not really a jump, exactly. Yes, you should leave the ground, but it's more of an upward extension of the legs than a jump.
For a long time pros had to keep one foot on the ground while serving. Quite a few of them served harder than most of us. IMO, it's more important to be balanced and get the shoulder weight moving into the ball than worrying too much about the jump. Balance and toss are the 2 biggest serve issues I see with rec players.
WildVolley
Legend
How do you think most people jump?
Simon_the_furry
Hall of Fame
Lol, guess I didn't explain myself very well. I'm saying, it's more of an uncoiling of the body than a "jump".
It actually is a jump - but the timing has to be with the throw..or serve.
This seems obvious but if you are doing it right IMHO you should be able to throw the ball farther then you would otherwise. Its not like a basketball shot which might involve a jump and then a shot..because the jump is not to get clearance from the defender but to aid the throw...
Peter Freeman has some stuff on this I like.
First you serve on balance.. (aka no jump). Then you step through - much like an old style serve (this is probably the best approach for a lot of senior players IMHO). Then you go into a lazy jump..
If you do this - you should feel your serve is a bit faster with each step..of the warmup.
I'd compare the whole thing to a crow hop. With the crow hop you should be getting a lot more distance on your throw. if you are not - you are doing it wrong. The idea is not to lengthen your hop but to lengthen your throw..
same token here - if you want to incorporate the legs - you want to feel your serve is more powerful when you add them - rather then just tack on a jump like a basketball fall away shot or something..
The x factor of course is that the jump not only helps you channel more power into the serve - but it does allow you to hit a flatter serve more easily.. So admittedly this not perfect analogy..
5263
G.O.A.T.
The launch (jumping?) and the toss are the 2 biggest keys for a quality serve. Launching properly is a big help in getting the spin going in the proper axis.
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
At the end of the day you have to weigh things up as to how you perform over long periods over the course of the match and off course over many years as well. I always look at it this way: the most important thing with your serve is can you perform it consistently over a long period of time and is your action good for your body. I would always make sure that I have an excellent ball toss and rhythmical throwing arm before I worried about other things.
This idea about jumping for me is more to do with an outcome you derive by loading up on the court and then releasing. When you release all that energy you may leave the ground and there's your jump but I wouldn't be trying to focus on jumping. The other thing to consider is can you perform this movement consistently without affecting your ball toss and avoid fatigue related technique integrity loss.
