ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Well….Correct. Zill here thinks his companions are permanent invalids of some sort.![]()
Well….Correct. Zill here thinks his companions are permanent invalids of some sort.![]()
You have no understanding of limitations. Keep working in your 1hb.No cure is needed. Anyone who can serve with a continental grip can make it a weapon if they’re happy to work on it. Hit thousands of serves at targets. Not for an unmotivated person for sure. Let them search for a cure.
Well...YOU would love and hope to have more people like yourself for company?Well….
Depends on what you mean by wide. I'm the opposite. I can lower cp a little for slice to corner in deuce but have to raise CP for hitting middle of the sideline. Prefer lower toss on kick serve in general for the wide kick after bounce.Sharing a positive experience from serving today. A really big factor in creating a really wide serve is a low contact height which in my case is also a low toss but doesn’t have to be I guess. With a lower contact height you can fully swipe across the outside of the ball. A little higher and you lose that effect. Give that a go. It’s huge.
I tend to hit true flat to middle T in deuce and wide corner in ad. To access middle T in ad, topslice first serve produces more aces and higher percentage for me.2nd week of flat T serve. Extremely difficult to aim as it requires excellent timing of pronation. Actually it’s very hard to hit a completely flat serve due to the same reason.
I get what you’re saying. I meant it’s easier to create good slice with a lower contact point.Depends on what you mean by wide. I'm the opposite. I can lower cp a little for slice to corner in deuce but have to raise CP for hitting middle of the sideline. Prefer lower toss on kick serve in general for the wide kick after bounce.
Be a little careful with that on slice. If you start to produce some under spin with low toss and slightly open racquet face, ball likes to go long when you hit hard and hit through.I get what you’re saying. I meant it’s easier to create good slice with a lower contact point.
The ultimate goal in this challenge is to build a repertoire of all types of serves targeting various spots in the box at the end of 18 weeks. Then in matches I’ll pull out a mixture of them not to give the opponent any rhythm of return.I tend to hit true flat to middle T in deuce and wide corner in ad. To access middle T in ad, topslice first serve produces more aces for me.
No underspin. Pure side spin with the racket swiping the right side of the ball.Be a little careful with that on slice. If you start to produce some under spin with low toss and slightly open racquet face, ball likes to go long when you hit hard and hit through.
18weeks probably not enough. I would be happy if I can achieve that goal within 8 years.The ultimate goal in this challenge is to build a repertoire of all types of serves targeting various spots in the box at the end of 18 weeks. Then in matches I’ll pull out a mixture of them not to give the opponent any rhythm of return.
18weeks probably not enough. I would be happy if I can achieve that goal within 8 years.
disagree. The basic motion takes 2-3 years. Getting different serve types to different locations with high enough percentage and good ball action takes more years especially without coaching.If you have the right fundamental service motion then you will be able to confidently attempt to hit any spot. But figuring out that motion is the hard part.
disagree. The basic motion takes 2-3 years. Getting different serves types to different location with high enough percentage takes more years especially without coaching.
18 weeks of focused intensive practice. Of course it won’t stop there. I’ll keep practicing regularly to maintain it.18weeks probably not enough. I would be happy if I can achieve that goal within 8 years.
Philosophical difference here. Won't convince me. I don't lump minor adjustments into basic motion. Also don't misquote me.I was referring to find not just the basic motion but the optimal motion for oneself. Hint: if you think you will need 8 years to be able to hit the different serves then you have not found your optimal motion.
For me if you have the right fundamental motion that suits you the best then there are no minor adjustments, no matter the type of serve. The elite servers even have the same toss but most mere mortals cannot achieve this which is fine.I don't lump minor adjustments into basic motion.
Also don't misquote me.
What I said was:
Getting different serve types to different locations with high enough percentage and good ball action
18 weeks of focused intensive practice. Of course it won’t stop there. I’ll keep practicing regularly to maintain it.
How big are those pockets? It’s like watching a clown pulling a handkerchief.It’s becoming more and more obvious that repetition is the only thing you need when it comes to mastering serve placement.
How big are those pockets? It’s like watching a clown pulling a handkerchief.
Is it just me? Looks like you were trying to hit slice and got accidental kick to the right after bounce on quite a few balls when serving from ad.It’s becoming more and more obvious that repetition is the only thing you need when it comes to mastering serve placement.
Is it just me? Looks like you were trying to hit slice and got accidental kick to the right after bounce on quite a few balls?
Is he trying to kick to the middle T? For a while my slice serve had unintended kick, fixed that. My kick still has accidental slice from time to time these days.to the right is the only direction it can 'kick', no? it's just on hard this is minimally visible against the aerodynamic force that pushes the ball to the left.
on clay what happens is upon landing the ball skids foward and 'plows' some dirt to form a tiny 'mole hill', so the spin can 'climb' up this hill and gives the appearance of kicking to the right.
this is the same reason the topspin game is more effective on clay.
you can check when C serves on that green plastic court the kick is less visible.
Is he trying to kick to the middle T? For a while my slice serve had unintended kick, fixed that. My kick still has accidental slice from time to time these days.
Yeah that’s an effect noticeable on clay courts unless your slice is pure/underspin. It bothered me sometimes when the ball curved nicely short of box corner on the deuce court, and then noticeably bounced back towards returner…Is it just me? Looks like you were trying to hit slice and got accidental kick to the right after bounce on quite a few balls when serving from ad.
Yeah that’s an effect noticeable on clay courts unless your slice is pure/underspin. It bothered me sometimes when the ball curved nicely short of box corner on the deuce court, and then noticeably bounced back towards returner…
Went to quite a few stores to find my ‘serve practice shorts’. 6 balls each but don’t like putting balls in the right one as it’s annoying to move them to the left later.How big are those pockets? It’s like watching a clown pulling a handkerchief.
Now I’m at the most meaningful part of my project: topslice serves. I guess accidental slice or kick will happen for a while.Is it just me? Looks like you were trying to hit slice and got accidental kick to the right after bounce on quite a few balls when serving from ad.
No. If it were as simple as just understanding it then you and me and everyone else would almost immediately be able to undo all those years serving with incorrect or flawed technique.The serve isn't unlike FH or BH. We get it after we understand it, no?
You don't have a waiters tray. If someone has a waiters tray and wants to turn their serve into a bigger weapon, then a cure IS needed and technical changes are going to be required. There is no way around that.No cure is needed.
No. If it were as simple as just understanding it then you and me and everyone else would almost immediately be able to undo all those years serving with incorrect or flawed technique.
Bypassing your brains "muscle memory" is no trivial exercise and it is the reason so many waiters tray serves stay as waiters trays, despite many efforts to correct them. A fine case and point is Chas; he understands the serve and its submotions but admits he cannot execute them at a high level.
Topslice continued.
What should I do to produce more topspin than slice? Lower contact point?
This is just what worked for me. Toss more towards the target, swing more towards the target, swing fast but imagining brushing top of the ball. My contact point is relatively low and fairly far into the court. It's completely different from how I hit kick/twist serve.Topslice continued.
What should I do to produce more topspin than slice? Lower contact point?
I was thinking of tossing a little more to the left.This is just what worked for me. Toss more towards the target, swing more towards the target, swing fast but imagining brushing top of the ball. My contact point is relatively low and fairly far into the court. It's completely different from how I hit kick/twist serve.
Only moving the toss didn't work for me. Needed the whole package.I was thinking of tossing a little more to the left.![]()
The toss is where it’s at. It forces the swing path. More over the left shoulder will force a more along the baseline swing.I was thinking of tossing a little more to the left.![]()
To me, ball bouncing high and left, then it's topslice. Ball bouncing high and right, it's a kick.Btw is a topslice serve a slicey version of a kick serve? Like 8 to 2 swing path vs a 7 to 1. What’s the difference exactly?
With along the baseline swing the ball won’t make it to the service line. More like towards the head of chair umpire maybe?The toss is where it’s at. It forces the swing path. More over the left shoulder will force a more along the baseline swing.
Then what type of swing path for each? On clock face.To me, ball bouncing high and left, then it's topslice. Ball bouncing high and right, it's a kick.
You'll get topslice by the end of next week. Kick will be tough. That contact point is probably not very natural for you. There are a ton of kick serve threads already.Then what type of swing path for each? On clock face.
I can do 7 to 1 swing. Isn’t that a kick serve? I can’t do pure topspin serve, which is 6 to 12 as I understand it.You'll get topslice by the end of next week. Kick will be tough. That contact point is probably not very natural for you. There are a ton of kick serve threads already.
If you want the kick wide action, the contact point needs to be at the left of your head. Your hand path needs to be more parallel to the baseline.I can do 7 to 1 swing. Isn’t that a kick serve? I can’t do pure topspin serve, which is 6 to 12 as I understand it.
I like the idea. The kick serve swing with a contact a little more to the right.Can you hit a kick serve where the ball bounces high and twists to the right after the bounce? Typically it involves tossing over your head. Now toss more to your right and swing with the same motion on the ball - you’ll get a mix of topspin and slice where the ball bounces high and moves to the left after the bounce. A lot of older players who used kick as their 2nd serve when they were younger switch to a topslice because it is easier on the back to hit a topspin swing with the toss to the right.
Did you see where I said “more” along the baseline. You repeated it as only “along” the baseline.With along the baseline swing the ball won’t make it to the service line. More like towards the head of chair umpire maybe?