Serve practice - how much, how often?
- Thread starter myke232
- Start date
tennis tom
Legend
About the same as you--it's the most important shot in tennis and you can work on it alone.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
ATP level Touring players do not need to practice their serves unless they are having problems with their serves like double faults for example. They are constantly playing matches each week and when they loose a match, are out and about to their next tournament. They might have practice matches to get tune up after traveling before a match.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
How much do you need it?
When I was more active in tennis, I was practicing it nearly every day. Perhaps 5-7 days / week. I would generally only practice serve 4-5 dozen in one stretch. I would subsequently work on something else & sometimes come back to the serve -- for another 4-5 dozen.
Sometimes serving too many balls is counterproductive. Can lead to lack of focus and possible injury. Excessive serves in a single session might cause mental fatigue to the point that you are reinforcing substandard serve mechanics.
When I was more active in tennis, I was practicing it nearly every day. Perhaps 5-7 days / week. I would generally only practice serve 4-5 dozen in one stretch. I would subsequently work on something else & sometimes come back to the serve -- for another 4-5 dozen.
Sometimes serving too many balls is counterproductive. Can lead to lack of focus and possible injury. Excessive serves in a single session might cause mental fatigue to the point that you are reinforcing substandard serve mechanics.
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S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Didn't Thomas Daniels recommend 700 per day?
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Sounds excessive. Did he really say that? Some of his advice is quite good. Some, rather questionable.
700 / day is something like 3-6 hours of serve practice per day... assuming that you you are serving two to four serves every minute. 4 serves/ min sounds a little rushed, doesn't it!
I would probably consider spending 20-30 minutes in a day... several times a week (no more than 5x or 6x / week). Don't think I'd spend much more than 40 minutes in a day serving. That includes shadow swings and picking up balls in addition to actual serving.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
"Use the reps to master your second serve.
You need to be getting in at least 700 reps in or more a workout."
Mastering Your Second Serve
You are only as good as your second serve is on that giving day. I was told that by my first tennis coach at a young age, and it took years for me to understand what he was talking about, when he told me that. Before we get into this information, you need to understand that, the service, is...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
BallChaser
Rookie
Can't remember the source, but I heard somewhere more than half of Karlovic's practice time is spent on serve.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Yeah, he does appear to say 700 serves in a workout (day). I wouldn't do 700 shadow swings today much less anything close to 700 serves. And my serve was actually the strongest part of my game... always ahead of the rest of it."Use the reps to master your second serve.
You need to be getting in at least 700 reps in or more a workout."
Mastering Your Second Serve
You are only as good as your second serve is on that giving day. I was told that by my first tennis coach at a young age, and it took years for me to understand what he was talking about, when he told me that. Before we get into this information, you need to understand that, the service, is...
As a 3.5 player my serve was close to 4.5. Two decades ago my serve was at 5.0+ for the rest of my game was about 4.5+
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Which guys? Are you referring to the 700-serve / day advice? 4-6 hrs/day serving?
AndreDaGamer
Rookie
Whenever my friends are on court and are also practicing serve, otherwise about a 5 minute serving session every 30 minutes during my tennis lesson
Novichok
Professional
It takes me around 100 something practice serves before I am able to get loose and relaxed enough to serve with pace and accuracy. Every time. Is there a way to eliminate that? Otherwise I'll have to forget playing matches. 
My ball toss especially is very inconsistent early on.
My ball toss especially is very inconsistent early on.
weelie
Professional
I hate practising serve when I have not hit first. I did hit serves like twice a month still two years ago, pre-covid, hitting with a ball machine for 30min then serving another 30min. Yes, it was only twice a month, but that made a big difference. Serving daily... that in theory would make a world of difference. But I don't know how I would set that up for me and if my shoulder would disagree with it.
But I have never gone to the courts just to hit hundreds of serves. I take two balls, make two serves, then take another two make 2 again. My focus is more on making as many in a row, instead of maxing on speed or whatever. I have tried to go through a Sampras serve routine here and there, but never really kept score of improvements. Hitting the net is the worst thing in serving, so I sometimes server over a higher net, but never figured out how I could do that on any court (I usually pile two chairs in front of the net or similar), what to pack to have an extra high net for practice purpose.
So all in all, I don't practice serving. I should. Once a week would be sufficient for my purposes (I am on court 3-4 times a week). Best would be to measure the improvement, like with the Sampras routine, how many points out of 100 in hitting all sections of the box.
But I have never gone to the courts just to hit hundreds of serves. I take two balls, make two serves, then take another two make 2 again. My focus is more on making as many in a row, instead of maxing on speed or whatever. I have tried to go through a Sampras serve routine here and there, but never really kept score of improvements. Hitting the net is the worst thing in serving, so I sometimes server over a higher net, but never figured out how I could do that on any court (I usually pile two chairs in front of the net or similar), what to pack to have an extra high net for practice purpose.
So all in all, I don't practice serving. I should. Once a week would be sufficient for my purposes (I am on court 3-4 times a week). Best would be to measure the improvement, like with the Sampras routine, how many points out of 100 in hitting all sections of the box.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Are you using a short, fast & jerky toss motion? Best to use one that is somewhat longer and moderately paced. Think about it as lifting the ball into the air rather than throwing it up into the air. Just lift and then open your fingers, like a flower opening, to release the ball somewhere in front of your face. You need to experiment a bit to find your optimal release point.It takes me around 100 something practice serves before I am able to get loose and relaxed enough to serve with pace and accuracy. Every time. Is there a way to eliminate that? Otherwise I'll have to forget playing matches.
Lift from the shoulder. Do not bend your wrist or your elbow. Do not flip either of these joints in an effort to lift the ball into the air. You might try an ice cream cone toss. This is similar to the way that Roger holds (and releases) the ball. His hand is primarily on the side of the ball rather than underneath it. This should help to minimize any flipping of the wrist. He is holding it primarily with his thumb and first two fingers.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
I have plans to actually practice serves on the court again. I really find serve practice boring so I will have to force myself. I don't like lugging a big hopper around so I just bring 12 balls in a bag x 4 so 48 serves is about all I can tolerate.
I also don't like serving during a lesson, I feel like the pros' time could be used more wisely.
I have been told by a college player that he did 500 serves on practice days.
I believe if you're over 50 yrs old 50 serves a day could be the sweet spot with enough reps to improve while avoiding injury.
I also don't like serving during a lesson, I feel like the pros' time could be used more wisely.
I have been told by a college player that he did 500 serves on practice days.
I believe if you're over 50 yrs old 50 serves a day could be the sweet spot with enough reps to improve while avoiding injury.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
The pro doesn't give you any useful feedback on your serves during a lesson? Most rec players I've seen have much better groundstrokes than serves. For this reason, it would make a lot of sense to spend some time during a lesson on serves
How many hours does it take to serve 500 serves? Even if you could serve 4 serves every minute, 500 serves easily take more than 2 hours.
When practicing the serve, I would often perform some shadow swings that included leg drive, jumping and landing. After hitting a few easy warm ups, I would add my serving ritual to each serve. After landing, I would then take a step back and split step. The SS should happen before the second bounce or as the serve crossed the BL.
If I had tried to do 500 serves in this manner, it could possibly take 4 hours or more to complete the task. Just guessing off the top of my head. Have not timed all of this.
It takes me about 15-20 before I feel good. 100 is a lot, more practice for you I guess, maybe try just serving nice and easy to start...It takes me around 100 something practice serves before I am able to get loose and relaxed enough to serve with pace and accuracy. Every time. Is there a way to eliminate that? Otherwise I'll have to forget playing matches.
Yeah there is a difference, especially for 2nd serves, I can practice them but not with the same pressure obviously...
I hear ya, sometimes i'll just drop the ball and whip a few forehands first, or if there is a backboard at the courts even better...
I find that it gets way less boring and more fun the better you get, it's sort of like shooting hoops by yourself. Sometimes i use a hopper, but more oftern I just bring about 15 balls, put 2-3 in my pocket, grab another and serve all of them, pick up more and repeat. I find I stay more focused this way rather then having a hopper and just hitting 70+ balls in a row...
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Double ditto back to you on the meme!
J
Just wait till you are married and then get divorced!
ballmachineguy
Legend
And 75% of his match time.
ReopeningWed
Professional
During pandemic I would work on my serve for 2 hours a day, 3-4 days a week. California was a no tennis state for the first 6 months IIRC.
Bagumbawalla
Talk Tennis Guru
I think what you are doing is fine.
You don't ever want to over-do your practice,
and don't just serve to be serving, but work on
the various aspect of the serve until you attain
an easy free flowing motion (flat, slice, and kick) and can place the ball
where you intend. The you can ease up and work serve practice into your
regular practice sessions.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Most of SoCal opened up tennis after 2 months. I was back on the court by mid-May.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
How's your shoulder?
Curious, how many serves could you execute in a 2-hour span? Like, how many baskets of balls (and the approx capacity of your basket)?
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Really? I think we opened up the courts last Fall (or Summer) in many counties in NorCal.
Wait, was that in 2020 or 2021?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
2020. Courts were locked from mid-March til mid-May then they slowly started opening up again.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Quite a bit longer to reopen in the SF Bay Area, especially Santa Clara County
ReopeningWed
Professional
175 ball hopper, maybe one basket as a warmup and then eight to twelve baskets with shadow footwork mixed in between? I don't have pain in my shoulder and I don't force any exertion at all, it feels like I'm serving from my torso and I'm just letting the pronation apply spin.
It's not really that many serves, I warm up with half of the basket on each side, then hit my second serve to the backhand (one basket each side), alternating between flat and kick (one basket each side), slice down the T on the ad court and slice out wide on the deuce court, kick serve out wide on on ad and short kick down the T on the deuce court.
My serve isn't terribly big, I just try to hit my spots and try to not double fault. I hit kick serves like 75% of the time, 15% slice, and 5% flat, and almost all of these to the backhand.
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WYK
Legend
175 serves to warm up? You got me beat for sure.
I use 8-12 balls. I serve them out, then switch sides for a break, rinse repeat. I do this until I feel I should stop to prevent injury. I find if I have a hopper that I will go too fast and injure myself.
I warm up usually with the wall or hitting with someone and then go to practicing serves afterwards. I do this at least 2-3X a week during the season.
I use 8-12 balls. I serve them out, then switch sides for a break, rinse repeat. I do this until I feel I should stop to prevent injury. I find if I have a hopper that I will go too fast and injure myself.
I warm up usually with the wall or hitting with someone and then go to practicing serves afterwards. I do this at least 2-3X a week during the season.
Yes. He said that growing up in Croatia he practiced only serves as a junior and that is why the rest of his shots suck!
In our elite doubles group, we don't practice serves. We do First One In Both Sides for all the servers (first 4 games). That is more than enough practice for us.
Serve and every other tennis stroke should be second nature to you and you should be able to cold start whenever needed, and adjust as you go along.
Serve and every other tennis stroke should be second nature to you and you should be able to cold start whenever needed, and adjust as you go along.
ballmachineguy
Legend
Discounting that someone is working on improvement, maybe you are right.
That’s wonderful
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Elite? Sarcasm, I assume.
Have always hated the suggestion & concept of First One In. I would always say, "no thanks, I'm going to practice a few". When it came time for me to serve I would indicate that these serves count.
Some players abuse FOI. They will just keep blasting serves in until they finally get one into the box -- often, an ace or a service winner. But that can backfire since they've not practiced their second serve at all.
FOI can put the returner at a distinct disadvantage as well. And not just from the aspect of dealing with an ace or a service winner. After multiple attempts by the server, to get one in, the returner might start to lose focus and might not be as ready as they would normally be since the server has "cried Wolf" too many times.
If players insisted on FOI all the time, I would usually stop playing with those people.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, the rest of us ain't elite!
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
It's SOP for some groups. I just deliberately hit my serves out until I'm warm.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
That might work. But I've always insisted that I'm not going to do FOI for my serves. And then proceed to practice a half dozen or so. The other players have always agreed, reluctantly, to let me play the proper way.
But, sometimes, still had to deal with FOI from other players (doubles).
tennis tom
Legend
Yah, for rec play it's usually FBI (first ball in). Then there's the one guy who after the three others did FBI wants to do practice serves AND FBI--there's a special place in hell for him. It's either FBI or a few practice serves--but not BOTH!
Ya I dunno I don’t do FBI but I wouldn’t want to start serving without loosening up my arm. Then if everyone else is getting FBI seems only fair for it to apply to the 4th guy.
I have the problems, difficoult to have tennis court and it takes a lot of time!! and expensiv...
And for 4 games?! Great now stand around even more for 4 games...
