serve toss?

M

Manus Domini

Hall of Fame
How should I toss my serve to make it more consistent? And what should I use to toss the ball (fingers, palm, hold the ball thightly)?

Should the tossing arm be rigid till the toss, or loose all the way?

Thanks
 
Use only the shoulder. Using the elbow and/or the wrist introduce variables because you have to bend them at some angle that can and often is different every time. You can raise the shoulder and release the ball when the humerus engages the clavicle, which is a much more consistently reproduce-able action.
 
As sA said, toss from the shoulder.
Never use the wrist or fingers to help with the toss.
Hold it any way you need to lock out everything except the shoulder and body.
I can hold the ball an infinite # of different ways, but always, the shoulder is the tossing unit.
 
Hold the ball lightly in your fingers without it touching the palm of your hand. Throw it up gently with your whole arm. Your arm should remain basically straight, but relaxed, and you should throw from your shoulder, lifting the ball up and placing it.

I'm a fan of a slightly faster motion so that you don't need to throw the ball as high. I think that the very high toss style that many women adopt makes timing difficult and makes it difficult to precisely place the ball. As a general rule, the lower your toss, the more accurately it can be placed. The trade-off is in terms of timing the rest of the swing.
 
like leed and sa stated, the most consistent toss is executed from the shoulder. every other component of the arm should be dead. all the weight and motion of the toss should be a body of work derived solely from the shoulder.

a nice tip/trick: i struggled with my toss for a long time and found this nifty little trick that allows me to put the toss exactly where i want it everytime. simply look up into the air at the place you want to put the ball. somehow this brainy little thing we call the mind knows exactly how to get it there. you will be surprised at how well it works. i use to toss following the ball with my eyes until i found this trick. now my toss is straight butter.
 
thanks all

WildVolley said:
Hold the ball lightly in your fingers without it touching the palm of your hand. Throw it up gently with your whole arm. Your arm should remain basically straight, but relaxed, and you should throw from your shoulder, lifting the ball up and placing it.

I'm a fan of a slightly faster motion so that you don't need to throw the ball as high. I think that the very high toss style that many women adopt makes timing difficult and makes it difficult to precisely place the ball. As a general rule, the lower your toss, the more accurately it can be placed. The trade-off is in terms of timing the rest of the swing.
Click to expand...

I used to use a really short toss, so I need to help time a taller one for more powerful, flat serves. In fact, I was actually hitting ball with bent arm, that's how low the toss was, and couldn't prepare properly.
 
Manus Domini said:
ok thanks

er, sA for an anatomy challenged guy, what are the humerus and clavicle?
Click to expand...
You can feel it happening if you put your dominant hand on top of your non-dominant shoulder when you lift it. You'll feel that your clavicle - that's your collar bone- stays static until you raise your arm roughly parallel to the ground and from there the outer side of your clavicle begins to raise as well because your humerus - your arm bone - engages with it and lifts it. This will happen at basically the same exact position each time, so it's a good way to time the release of the ball.
 
Toss release point varies depending on where you want to place the ball for what serve you want to hit. You need to be able to vary the toss location a little bit..

Also I prefer the 'ice cream' style toss to the palm facing up toss - but both work.
 
Each of these serve toss videos emphasises a different aspect of the toss. Put all the advice together for a great toss!

How to Hold the Ball (the ice cream style toss) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kynEzufNE

Federer Murray Hass & more ball toss common threads (How all the pros keep their toss parellel to the baseline as they are rotating away from the ball as they go into their trophy position as they lift the ball) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIF-UaRUd6k

Tennis Serve Tossing Motion Tempo (How the toss is part of the smooth transition into a good trophy position) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZp90h-Ar8&feature=channel

Tennis Serve Toss: Will Hamilton emphasises continuing to lift the tossing arm even after releasing the ball to help get you into the "bow shape", to toss the ball 1-2 feet above your contact point, and where to toss the ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhqDwrbeSU0&feature=related
 
Manus Domini said:
How should I toss my serve to make it more consistent? And what should I use to toss the ball (fingers, palm, hold the ball thightly)?

Should the tossing arm be rigid till the toss, or loose all the way?

Thanks
Click to expand...

The advice to take out all variables except the shoulder is correct. In addition, I would add that your toss should be slow and easy at the transition from the downward motion of the arm at the start to the upward motion before you release the ball. Too many players rush that motion and end up throwing the ball upward. "Push" the ball upward. Don't throw it. It should have no spin on it when it leaves your hand. If it has no spin, you will know that you've released it without any wrist or finger input, which will ensure a more accurate, consistent toss.
 
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I found htat the problem was mainly raising my head at same pace as shoulder, which caused inconsistency, as I wasn't looking where I wanted ball to be
 
Manus Domini said:
How should I toss my serve to make it more consistent? And what should I use to toss the ball (fingers, palm, hold the ball thightly)?

Should the tossing arm be rigid till the toss, or loose all the way?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Keep the arm/wrist straight and semi-relaxed and toss using your shoulder. Your entire arm should be straight the whole time. No bent in the elbow, no bent in the wrist.
 
Couple of things I see players do which effects toss are having the little finger involved, flicking the ball, releasing the ball too early, not having the toss high enough & having the toss too far away from the body.
 
I finally solved my toss problems,,, finally........ took like 5 years but yea........... tossing with palm to the side works,,, It felt so uncomfortable at first but after about 4 weeks of trying, finally got used to it..... YOOHOO

Let the Master show you


TOPSHOT-TENNIS-GBR-WIMBLEDON-1582279624.jpg





 
Roger's style is often referred to as the ice cream cone toss. (Or very close to an ice cream cone toss). This style helps by preventing (or limiting) wrist flipping actions.
 
Nostradamus said:
I finally solved my toss problems,,, finally........ took like 5 years but yea........... tossing with palm to the side works,,, It felt so uncomfortable at first but after about 4 weeks of trying, finally got used to it..... YOOHOO

Let the Master show you
[..]
Click to expand...
Well, you could show us, but I guess we will have to settle for the Master for obvious reasons.
 
Digital Atheist said:
Well, you could show us, but I guess we will have to settle for the Master for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

Just want to tell you though,,, it takes few weeks of practicing using this toss technique to get used to it.... at first it wasn't working for me at all, i felt very uncomfortable using this technique,,, but just one day ,, it just clicked, and it just started working
 
Most great servers in the tour seem to use this technique. Sampras also uses this same technique on the toss, and another good pic of Federer, and richard Kricheck ,, legendary server who blew away sampras at wimbledon one year

2006_04_16_serve_sampras.jpg


Fed_Ball_Toss_1000x.png


913700_original.jpg
 
Question I've always wondered about the ice cream cone toss (have never tried it), does your palm stay sideways as you toss or do you turn your palm up before you release the ball? (or maybe either?)
 
PKorda said:
Question I've always wondered about the ice cream cone toss (have never tried it), does your palm stay sideways as you toss or do you turn your palm up before you release the ball? (or maybe either?)
Click to expand...
Pretty much stays sideways. You should be able to see that in the images in the posts above. For some, the palm might turn at the top (well after release).
 
PKorda said:
Question I've always wondered about the ice cream cone toss (have never tried it), does your palm stay sideways as you toss or do you turn your palm up before you release the ball? (or maybe either?)
Click to expand...

Played a match last night, interclub doubles match and i used my new toss technique.... Result was fantastic...... much much more consistent toss with accurate toss placement whenever wherever. SERVED 9 ACES in 2 sets....... was down 0-30 at one point and served 3 ACES in a row and 1 service winner to get out of it.................................. Not bad at all with new toss technique................(y)(y)
 
Nostradamus said:
Played a match last night, interclub doubles match and i used my new toss technique.... Result was fantastic...... much much more consistent toss with accurate toss placement whenever wherever. SERVED 9 ACES in 2 sets....... was down 0-30 at one point and served 3 ACES in a row and 1 service winner to get out of it.................................. Not bad at all with new toss technique................(y)(y)
Click to expand...
What's your new technique?
 
Pumpkin said:
The icecream cone toss? Federer and Sampras use it?
Click to expand...
Roger Federer & Richard Krajicek appear to be employing an ice cream cone (or water glass) toss -- or very close to it. The Sampras image above might also be a similar orientation of the tossing hand. I had never associated Petros with the ice cream cone toss before. Perhaps it's a pseudo ice cream cone toss.
 
Pumpkin said:
The icecream cone toss? Federer and Sampras use it?
Click to expand...
Itls not the Ice cream toss. you always hold the ball close to fingers anyway, that's normal. What Federer and Sampras does is toss the ball SIDEWAYS. with palm facing sideway. It took me couple of weeks to get use to it but it is like MAGIC how it helps your entire serve, not just the toss.

I served 9 ACES on the last match which was just 2 sets of doubles, i haven't done that in 5 years
 
Nostradamus said:
Itls not the Ice cream toss. you always hold the ball close to fingers anyway, that's normal. What Federer and Sampras does is toss the ball SIDEWAYS. with palm facing sideway. It took me couple of weeks to get use to it but it is like MAGIC how it helps your entire serve, not just the toss.

I served 9 ACES on the last match which was just 2 sets of doubles, i haven't done that in 5 years
Click to expand...
Thanks very much. I've been working on my toss and can now toss with no spin and on target, but I use conventional palm up. I haven't had to do it under pressure.

I think you are drawing a distinction between an icecream toss where your palm is faced towards yourself and what you are doing, which is more sideways.

I've tried your way in the living room and it seems quite good but the ceiling is too low for me to get a proper gauge on it .

I'll give it a proper test and once again, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
Nostradamus said:
Itls not the Ice cream toss. you always hold the ball close to fingers anyway, that's normal. What Federer and Sampras does is toss the ball SIDEWAYS. with palm facing sideway. It took me couple of weeks to get use to it but it is like MAGIC how it helps your entire serve, not just the toss.

I served 9 ACES on the last match which was just 2 sets of doubles, i haven't done that in 5 years
Click to expand...
I always thought Federer did ice cream toss, isn't palm sideways in ice cream toss? How do these two differ?
 
PKorda said:
I always thought Federer did ice cream toss, isn't palm sideways in ice cream toss? How do these two differ?
Click to expand...
I refer to Roger's toss as as an ice cream cone toss implementation. Ditto for Richard K. However, when I was introduced to the ice cream toss, many moons ago, the ball sat primarily on top of the thumb & index finger -- like a scoop of ice cream sitting on top of a cone. Hand sideways.

So, we were holding the ball with only two or three fingers. Roger & Richard appear to be holding the ball with four fingers -- with the hand sideways. I'd still call this implementation an ice cream cone. But I have heard it referred to as a water glass toss.
 
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Players vary on how they hold the ball, but I place it in my fingers and not just my finger tips. It needs to feel like you hold it well enough while allowing you to release it with little to no spin.

I'll note that some people also toss it palm facing the side instead of palm facing the sky. In their case, they'd hold it with their finger tips, although it might also rest on their pinkie. Again, the goal is to put the ball in the right place for the type of serve you wish to hit, so some of those details do not matter all that much as long as you release the ball properly with it.
 
Nostradamus said:
You are right, it is palm sideways. It really does work to make the toss consistent.
Click to expand...

I used to do that, but I have come to find it easier palm facing up. I can release it properly and it feels easier for me to put the ball in the court that way.

I think some people also like that palm sideways when they toss in an arc like Federer or Sampras, but I couldn't get the hang of it.
 
SV10is said:
I used to do that, but I have come to find it easier palm facing up. I can release it properly and it feels easier for me to put the ball in the court that way.

I think some people also like that palm sideways when they toss in an arc like Federer or Sampras, but I couldn't get the hang of it.
Click to expand...
Whatever works for you is fine. Just to be clear, all elite players will toss the ball in an arc. Pete's toss was higher than most. Roger's arc might have been wider -- particularly on 2nd serves
 
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