Serve Velocity - Radar or Not?

[SlapShot]

I see all of these people posting how fast they've served, and I just have to wonder - are they guessing or have they actually had their serve clocked?

In my case, I went out with a few hitting partners about a month ago with that little sports radar that Drakulie used in his video, and was sitting around 105-110 when hitting flat. (I almost never flatten out - I'd rather sit a kick serve up at someone's shoulders at 90 than hit a flat one into their strike zone at 110.)

How many people here have actually had their serve measured with a radar, and how many are guessing that because it looks like what they see in videos, that's what their speed is?

 

[Jonnyf]

Radar-infact i used a radar today for a few hours.! and for the first time in months

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

Radar..............and keep in mind those guns like the one Drak used actually are UNDER-estimating 'true' speed (where 'true'=what would be measured on center court at the Sony Ericsson Open, for example). The guns used at pro tournaments measure right off the face of the racquet, whereas the one Drak and others have used does not. So add 5-10 MPH to what that machine says and you've got it pretty close to right. Thing is, pros can hit those bombs CONSISTENTLY and to handkerchief sized spots on the court. Happy Hitting, CC

 

[Sakumo]

Yea I've used radar. Craig is right though, the speed gun is supposed to be set right off the racket, like 2 or 3 feet into the baseline, I think. When I clock mine I think my coach sets it about 3 feet into the court.

 

[SlapShot]

When we were clocking, we put the radar across the net so it was protected. This wasn't a "look how hard I can serve" thread, though. I was just wondering aloud whether the people who brag about their huge serves have actually clocked them.

 

[Sakumo]

Lol Yea, the people who brag about their huge serves don't clock them, they just guess and way over guess. I know people who say the hit 140 :roll:

 

[shojun25]

quick question (also a noob question):

how much is a cheap radar gun. i see them above the $100's.

 

[dave333]

I have a radar gun. My flat serve which I rarely use anymore since I'm so addicted to kick serves now goes up to 78 mph, while my kicker goes up to 65 mph.

I use a normal bushnell gun. As in, its really a gun and you have to have someone else read it for you.

 

[boojay]

i haven't clocked my serve in a while, but i know my form's improved a great deal. My guess is I might be able to break 120 mph now on the speedtrac (aka speeddrak) radar. If not, definitely in the mid-110s, but like everyone says, it's not the velocity that's important, it's the spin and placement. The guys I play against can crush any of my flat serves, but they usually don't have as much success when I mix it up.

 

[Jonnyf]

Radar..............and keep in mind those guns like the one Drak used actually are UNDER-estimating 'true' speed (where 'true'=what would be measured on center court at the Sony Ericsson Open, for example). The guns used at pro tournaments measure right off the face of the racquet, whereas the one Drak and others have used does not. So add 5-10 MPH to what that machine says and you've got it pretty close to right. Thing is, pros can hit those bombs CONSISTENTLY and to handkerchief sized spots on the court. Happy Hitting, CC

Ohh, hit an extremely round 100mph when the gun was on the other side of the net yesterday

 

[Noveson]

I had my friend hold a gun for me, and got widely different results based on where he was. Differences of even up to 15 MPH, and I know my serve doesn't change that much. It went from 107(which I think is too high) down all the way to 93(too low). Of course these might be accurate, but I think it was just based on where he pointed the gun.

 

[Sakumo]

The OP said he didn't want this to turn a serve thread.

This wasn't a "look how hard I can serve" thread, though.

So if you are about to post something like ohh I hit a 120 mph serve the other day, just stop now.

PS: boojay, I honestly have a hard time believing you are hitting in the 120's when your form is still "improving." Trust me I play with 6.0 Div. 1 players all the time who crack serves at me and I have s*** for time returning. They hit them up to 130 but I've been aced at 120 and the serves are easily in. If you were hitting to the 120's you would be getting tons of aces.

 

[SlapShot]

Well, this started as more of a rant about the people who assume that they hit the ball 100 mph just because their serve looks like the ones in videos. It'd be like someone talking about running a 4.4 40 yard dash because they think they're as fast as the guys on the TV.

 

[Sakumo]

Well, this started as more of a rant about the people who assume that they hit the ball 100 mph just because their serve looks like the ones in videos. It'd be like someone talking about running a 4.4 40 yard dash because they think they're as fast as the guys on the TV.

Lol exactly. I am 99% sure the only person who posted how fast they serve in this thread and told the truth is dave333.

Edit: Actually Noveson and Jonnyf probably are too.

 

[Backcourt Pickup]

Yeah, I got clocked for a serving contest with my buddy who has been clocked by a more accurate gun. He got clocked at 110, and I got clocked at 100. However, those were flat serves, which neither of us use. So adding about 10 mph reveals respectable flat serves. However, I usually either slice it (I'm a lefty) or kick it. I rarely use a flat serve for a first serve.

It was cool because he got first, and I got second in the contest. He won some box seats to the Pilot Penn

 

[sharpy]

i'm betting that alot of people here are over-estimating their serves. unless you got accurate radar or the video frame count thing, the serves are probably overestimated. I'll tell you myself my fastest is 103mph, but like most people here including myself can't hit over 100 mph consistently or even place them...

 

[boojay]

The OP said he didn't want this to turn a serve thread.

PS: boojay, I honestly have a hard time believing you are hitting in the 120's when your form is still "improving." Trust me I play with 6.0 Div. 1 players all the time who crack serves at me and I have s*** for time returning. They hit them up to 130 but I've been aced at 120 and the serves are easily in. If you were hitting to the 120's you would be getting tons of aces.

so if i posted a vid of myself doing 120 or near 120, what would you give me?

 

[Jonnyf]

Lol exactly. I am 99% sure the only person who posted how fast they serve in this thread and told the truth is dave333.

Edit: Actually Noveson and Jonnyf probably are too.

Thanks: now heres some proof.



the gun was at the far side of the court behind the net (near the centre line that serve was out wide.!

 

[Movement]

I went to a clinic one time where they had a radar gun. My serve was in the 60's, I was suprised. I told my coach that and he said that 60 mph is pretty slow and he thinks I serve faster than that. *shrug* The important thing is, does your serve win/set up points for you? If the answer is yes, I don't think anyone should be too concerned about speeds.

 

[SlapShot]

I just read an article on ESPN.com about pitchers in baseball and the reliance on radar gun readings, and the fact that a 100 mph fastball doesn't make a great pitcher.

So, part two of discussion - does your serve velocity have any correlation with your skill as a server? I'm going to say no (within reason) - I'd rather put a good kicker in the corner of the service box that sets up a point, and be able to hit it 75% of the time, than be able to serve 140 mph into the body, and get it in 25% of the time. Velocity is a helper, but definitely has no bearing on your talent as a tennis player.

 

[Jonnyf]

I just read an article on ESPN.com about pitchers in baseball and the reliance on radar gun readings, and the fact that a 100 mph fastball doesn't make a great pitcher.

So, part two of discussion - does your serve velocity have any correlation with your skill as a server? I'm going to say no (within reason) - I'd rather put a good kicker in the corner of the service box that sets up a point, and be able to hit it 75% of the time, than be able to serve 140 mph into the body, and get it in 25% of the time. Velocity is a helper, but definitely has no bearing on your talent as a tennis player.

Hmm it'd depends on the time for me, think of the intimidation factor playing a guy and hitting 140mph on a speed gun or when u start, it'd keep you on your toes never knowing if your going to have an 140mph serve smacked at you

 

[kevhen]

Indoor baseball radar, ranging from 98-110mph with at least two serves at each 1mph increment. Average was around 104mph. Will take photo of the radar next time up there.

 

[SlapShot]

Hmm it'd depends on the time for me, think of the intimidation factor playing a guy and hitting 140mph on a speed gun or when u start, it'd keep you on your toes never knowing if your going to have an 140mph serve smacked at you

But if they can't place the serve, does the fact that they can propel a small yellow ball at 140 mph mean anything? If they can put it into a corner, or make it move a little bit, I'd be inclined to say it's a weapon. But at my level, people feast on 100 mph flat serves, and it gets even worse at higher levels.

 

[Jonnyf]

But if they can't place the serve, does the fact that they can propel a small yellow ball at 140 mph mean anything? If they can put it into a corner, or make it move a little bit, I'd be inclined to say it's a weapon. But at my level, people feast on 100 mph flat serves, and it gets even worse at higher levels.

I totally agree with you, it's true in general for the whole match i'd prefer to hit the corners but for the first serve or two in the first service game wouldn't you love to hit an 140mph serve down the middle just to basically say "watch or i'll actually smash it.!"

 

[SlapShot]

I totally agree with you, it's true in general for the whole match i'd prefer to hit the corners but for the first serve or two in the first service game wouldn't you love to hit an 140mph serve down the middle just to basically say "watch or i'll actually smash it.!"

I actually did that in mixed dubs this winter - I'd be warming up serve against the other team's girl (we warmed up guy to guy and girl to girl for groundies most of the time) and I'd hit a few second serves just to warm up and get feeling good, and then I'd slowly ramp the pace up. The last 2 or 3 I hit were my fastball, and I got some looks from people, because at 4.0, people who can hit 100+ are rare.

Of course, during the match, I hit kick serves 95% of the time to get the first in.

 

[drakulie]

I want to see vids!!!!

By the way, I serve between 95-110.

 

[Sakumo]

so if i posted a vid of myself doing 120 or near 120, what would you give me?

A golden star. First, how do we know it is you. Second, the video has to be GOOD quality so we can check it for speed. And third, we need someone on the video saying that it is you and the serve was actually clocked at 120.

Then I will believe you. And I am more inclined to think you are a 13 year old talking big, because you are battling back at me. Trying to convince me that you have this serve. Honestly I wouldn't care if anyone believed me.

Edit: Nice serve speed Jonnyf

 

[shindemac]

No, I never got mine radared. But I have a good guess of my speed, and I plan to get a radar gun someday since I practice my serve a lot. Actually, I don't care too much about hitting 100+ anymore. I'd rather get a decent high percentage kick serve with some placement. I have some really off and on days, and wish I could have measured my speed. One day, my kick serves were landing in and hitting the fence in 1 bounce. Next time, it was back to the usual 2 bounces and a lot slower.

I do think serve speed is related to serve skill. It's only loosely based, but there is some. Assuming there's no background as a pitcher in baseball, then most beginners will arm the ball and never be able to break 80 or 90. But as they get better, their form improves and they start to use more of the kinetic chain allowing them to get up to 90-100. I'd say this is the domain of high 3.5 to 4.0 players. After that, most 4.5s and up can hit 100+ and the correlation starts to break down.

I guess you can also add a corollary that people who can serve fast have better control. But this is because they practice this. As their motion improves, and they are aware of their racket position, then they can start directing their serves with better precision. So basically, if someone can average 100, I'm willing to bet they are good and can place their serve instead of some 3.0 hack who manages to randomly hit 100 all the time.

 

[Spindarella]

I haven't had my serve radared in a while now, probably 6 month or so. I used to be able to get some good speed on the ball, but lately I have been taking a little speed off, and spinning more. But my favorite serve still has to be a flat serve out wide to the ad court with a little bit of pace taken off, but not much. radar is a palindrome.

 

[boojay]

A golden star. First, how do we know it is you. Second, the video has to be GOOD quality so we can check it for speed. And third, we need someone on the video saying that it is you and the serve was actually clocked at 120.

Then I will believe you. And I am more inclined to think you are a 13 year old talking big, because you are battling back at me. Trying to convince me that you have this serve. Honestly I wouldn't care if anyone believed me.

Edit: Nice serve speed Jonnyf

i've already posted a vid of myself serving 110+ mph a while back. I had a back injury with poor form (arming the serve) when I did that take. Now I'm fully healed, have much better form (thanks to the advice of so many from this board), and can crack the 100 mark now without much effort.

i have no need to prove anything to anybody, but i am curious as to whether or not I can break the 120 mark because I do feel like i'm hitting much cleaner and I've observed two people hit the 120 and 123 mark which I thought were speeds I could achieve based on speculation alone.