Service animals for anxiety are absurd

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
People come to me and say they need a letter from a psychiatrist to get a service animal. I've generally agreed to do it but am reconsidering. The notion that they should be able to take their dog (or peacock, or pit viper) on a plane where people who may be allergic to them or have their own phobias of such animals will then be stuck in confinement with them for hours and hours seems unreasonable. Maybe some restaurants will open dedicated service animal areas (hell, a few have glassed-in cigar areas in NYC) because the rest of us don't need to dine with your animal roaming around. You want to get a dog and take it with you most places you go? Fine. But I don't think EVERY place has to accommodate this whim.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Robotic pets are the solution.

robotic-dog-576752.jpg
 

max

Legend
This is probably true about a great many things, "medical" marijuna, for instance. . . when THC pills are available which give you the THC without the many other health risks of ingesting smokey stuff, etc.

I think the mark of professionalism is exactly that intellectual discernment that you talk about---being able to advise or prescribe the thing correct to each person.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
This is probably true about a great many things, "medical" marijuna, for instance. . . when THC pills are available which give you the THC without the many other health risks of ingesting smokey stuff, etc.

I think the mark of professionalism is exactly that intellectual discernment that you talk about---being able to advise or prescribe the thing correct to each person.

This has nothing to do with the thread. The thread is about causing problems TO OTHERS.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Pets should be banned in general if the pets are going to come into contact with anyone other than their owners. Selective breeding of animals may have been necessary when horses and dogs served a real purpose, but now they are mostly for entertainment and escapism.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
People come to me and say they need a letter from a psychiatrist to get a service animal. I've generally agreed to do it but am reconsidering. The notion that they should be able to take their dog (or peacock, or pit viper) on a plane where people who may be allergic to them or have their own phobias of such animals will then be stuck in confinement with them for hours and hours seems unreasonable. Maybe some restaurants will open dedicated service animal areas (hell, a few have glassed-in cigar areas in NYC) because the rest of us don't need to dine with your animal roaming around. You want to get a dog and take it with you most places you go? Fine. But I don't think EVERY place has to accommodate this whim.
I understand your concerns. But is that a reason to deny someone a service animal? It seems that your argument is you have the "greater good" of humanity in mind. Maybe changing laws to accommodate people with allergies, etc would be time better spent. I have never had a problem with these animals in public.

What I don't understand is why someone needs to get psychiatrist approval in the first place. Oh wait, it's a billable visit, of course.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I understand your concerns. But is that a reason to deny someone a service animal? It seems that your argument is you have the "greater good" of humanity in mind. Maybe changing laws to accommodate people with allergies, etc would be time better spent. I have never had a problem with these animals in public.

What I don't understand is why someone needs to get psychiatrist approval in the first place. Oh wait, it's a billable visit, of course.

The approval must be shown at the airport, if asked.

Imagine if everyone showed up with their pets claiming to have a disorder. Planes cannot accommodate them.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
The approval must be shown at the airport, if asked.

Imagine if everyone showed up with their pets claiming to have a disorder. Planes cannot accommodate them.
Yeah, but MD approval? I think that's a little overboard, there are others who are also qualified.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I understand your concerns. But is that a reason to deny someone a service animal? It seems that your argument is you have the "greater good" of humanity in mind. Maybe changing laws to accommodate people with allergies, etc would be time better spent. I have never had a problem with these animals in public.

What I don't understand is why someone needs to get psychiatrist approval in the first place. Oh wait, it's a billable visit, of course.

Laws to help people with allergy are not always working in this case. Read the links. Unless the passenger with allergies is carrying a doctor's letter, it doesn't count.

Now imagine how it is to have an allergy and not have a letter and have to get off the plane because someone with an anxiety had to have a dog with him. The onus now falls on the patient with allergies to be always prepared for this.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Yeah, but MD approval? I think that's a little overboard, there are others who are also qualified.

That is a different issue and not really very relevant here. It needs to be somebody who is legally recognized as a professional in this area.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
People come to me and say they need a letter from a psychiatrist to get a service animal. I've generally agreed to do it but am reconsidering. The notion that they should be able to take their dog (or peacock, or pit viper) on a plane where people who may be allergic to them or have their own phobias of such animals will then be stuck in confinement with them for hours and hours seems unreasonable. Maybe some restaurants will open dedicated service animal areas (hell, a few have glassed-in cigar areas in NYC) because the rest of us don't need to dine with your animal roaming around. You want to get a dog and take it with you most places you go? Fine. But I don't think EVERY place has to accommodate this whim.

I think you don't have a choice in this matter. You are required to write or not write the letter based on how you evaluate your patient, not how the action sits with others.

If you go down that path, any amount of unethical behavior can be justified. For example, you may end up declaring a handicapped person to be fit because of your concern for business owners.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
I guess I don't fly enough to think this is a huge problem. How often are service animals on flights? I think airlines should be able to accommodate both types of passengers. There's this sensationalized story about someone being dragged off a flight, but is this really a widespread important problem? I live in a large city and I see a service animal very occasionally. The OP is saying he is reconsidering the whole practice based on public accommodations. I think there is a legitimate need for these animals.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I guess I don't fly enough to think this is a huge problem. How often are service animals on flights? I think airlines should be able to accommodate both types of passengers. There's this sensationalized story about someone being dragged off a flight, but is this really a widespread important problem? I live in a large city and I see a service animal very occasionally. The OP is saying he is reconsidering the whole practice based on public accommodations. I think there is a legitimate need for these animals.

The problem is that a plane is a small suffocating area and there is limited or zero medical assistance after take-off. You coming across a service animal in a city is a very different situation.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
The problem is that a plane is a small suffocating area and there is limited or zero medical assistance after take-off. You coming across a service animal in a city is a very different situation.
What percentage of flights have a service animal on board? How big is the problem?
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
Robotic pets are the solution.

robotic-dog-576752.jpg
Someone needs to develop a robotic dog that let's you know when its batteries need to be replaced, and where you can put the new batteries in its mouth and the old batteries come out from you know where.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
What percentage of flights have a service animal on board? How big is the problem?

Allergies can be fatal. To that person, it does not matter if the problem is big or small. The big or small issue is more relevant when more choices are available and the situation is not life-threatening.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Someone needs to develop a robotic dog that let's you know when its batteries need to be replaced, and where you can put the new batteries in its mouth and the old batteries come out from you know where.

It can use a charging cord or run on solar.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
Allergies can be fatal. To that person, it does not matter if the problem is big or small. The big or small issue is more relevant when more choices are available and the situation is not life-threatening.
I see. So, your solution is to ban service animals on flights altogether, is that correct? How about an alternative solution of having flights that allow service animals and ones that don't?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I see. So, your solution is to ban service animals on flights altogether, is that correct? How about an alternative solution of having flights that allow service animals and ones that don't?

No, that is not my solution but your inability to comprehend that people can discuss topics without coming to extreme conclusions.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
No, that is not my solution but your inability to comprehend that people can discuss topics without coming to extreme conclusions.
I don't appreciate the attack sir. I believe you are the one who is coming up with "extreme conclusions".
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
No, that is not my solution but your inability to comprehend that people can discuss topics without coming to extreme conclusions.
Pets should be banned in general if the pets are going to come into contact with anyone other than their owners. Selective breeding of animals may have been necessary when horses and dogs served a real purpose, but now they are mostly for entertainment and escapism.
 

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
People come to me and say they need a letter from a psychiatrist to get a service animal. I've generally agreed to do it but am reconsidering. The notion that they should be able to take their dog (or peacock, or pit viper) on a plane where people who may be allergic to them or have their own phobias of such animals will then be stuck in confinement with them for hours and hours seems unreasonable. Maybe some restaurants will open dedicated service animal areas (hell, a few have glassed-in cigar areas in NYC) because the rest of us don't need to dine with your animal roaming around. You want to get a dog and take it with you most places you go? Fine. But I don't think EVERY place has to accommodate this whim.

Seems fairly easy to get a service animal licence. How concerned are you that many of these people may be scamming you?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster

I know. That is another thing I say on the side, but not connected to this. I should not have brought them together to confuse you.

For example, I don't believe that humans should have pets and create animals dependent on them, and certainly should not neuter them.

I see you took that seriously. Keep them separate. This issue is the unfortunate result of exploiting animals in general, but this thread is not about that. It is about what can be done now.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
I know. That is another thing I say on the side, but not connected to this. I should not have brought them together to confuse you.

For example, I don't believe that humans should have pets and create animals dependent on them, and certainly should not neuter them.

I see you took that seriously. Keep them separate. This issue is the unfortunate result of exploiting animals in general, but this thread is not about that. It is about what can be done now.
I'm not confused at all. But you are pivoting all around in your dialog, as you confessed.

The absurdity is calling this thread "Service animals for anxiety are absurd". That's an "extreme conclusion" and blanket statement by a self-proclaimed psychiatrist, a person who is paid to help people.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I'm not confused at all. But you are pivoting all around in your dialog, as you confessed.

The absurdity is calling this thread "Service animals for anxiety are absurd". That's an "extreme conclusion" and blanket statement by a self-proclaimed psychiatrist, a person who is paid to help people.

He is also just having fun. He is a well-known guy in his field.
 

BlueB

Legend
I think that people are widely abusing the opportunity to obtain those service animal permits, so Fido can go everywhere with them...
It is becoming very common now, almost every flight we were on had an animal in passenger area. On the most recent one, 2 weeks ago, a big Labrador was just ahead of us, sticking his head under the seat and to my son's feet. Now, we are animal lovers and my wife is a vet, so we found it cute, but I can totally see how it could have freaked out someone else, or pose a health risk to an allergic person.
As a dog owner, I still think that no animals should be allowed in the cabin. There's animal transportation service, you'll get them just after the flight, just like your suitcase.

Alternatively, the full price ticket (seat) should be purchased for any pet heavier then a typical 2 year old infant and reduced price for a lap pet. Then people would think twice before abusing the privilege.
Airlines should provide couple of seats or rows that are per friendly, with a solid barriers under the seats and partition the pet seating area with bulkhead, like the business class.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

BlueB

Legend
Oh, and Suresh is right, if we were to create a real sustainable society, the pets should not have a place in it...
I know, sounds heartless, but it is what it is...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Oh, and Suresh is right, if we were to create a real sustainable society, the pets should not have a place in it...
I know, sounds heartless, but it is what it is...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Pets should have a place - in their natural habitat, not in the company of humans.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I think that people are widely abusing the opportunity to obtain those service animal permits, so Fido can go everywhere with them...
It is becoming very common now, almost every flight we were on had an animal in passenger area. On the most recent one, 2 weeks ago, a big Labrador was just ahead of us, sticking his head under the seat and to my son's feet. Now, we are animal lovers and my wife is a vet, so we found it cute, but I can totally see how it could have freaked out someone else, or pose a health risk to an allergic person.
As a dog owner, I still think that no animals should be allowed in the cabin. There's animal transportation service, you'll get them just after the flight, just like your suitcase.

Alternatively, the full price ticket (seat) should be purchased for any pet heavier then a typical 2 year old infant and reduced price for a lap pet. Then people would think twice before abusing the privilege.
Airlines should provide couple of seats or rows that are per friendly, with a solid barriers under the seats and partition the pet seating area with bulkhead, like the business class.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

The real problem is escapism. Humans do all these things for their pets because they cannot relate to another human who will question them or simply not give a capy bara's ass about him. So they cuddle with pets which have been selectively bred to be dependent on humans. Very sad psychological state of these pathetic people who place pets above humans. Unfortunately, there are many of them and the pet industry is huge, and heroic tales of a guy rescuing a cat play very well on TV to an audience which cannot think any further.
 

BlueB

Legend
The real problem is escapism. Humans do all these things for their pets because they cannot relate to another human who will question them or simply not give a capy bara's ass about him. So they cuddle with pets which have been selectively bred to be dependent on humans. Very sad psychological state of these pathetic people who place pets above humans. Unfortunately, there are many of them and the pet industry is huge, and heroic tales of a guy rescuing a cat play very well on TV to an audience which cannot think any further.
Agreed.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
...Now, we are animal lovers and my wife is a vet....

Oh, and Suresh is right, if we were to create a real sustainable society, the pets should not have a place in it...
I know, sounds heartless, but it is what it is...

An animal lover with a split personality? Sounds like you need a psychiatrist, I heard about a guy...

brb, I need to find a shovel.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
I think you don't have a choice in this matter. You are required to write or not write the letter based on how you evaluate your patient

It's frequently not helpful for the patients. I know of some who've shown up at job interviews with these animals. They didn't get the job
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
That's an "extreme conclusion" and blanket statement by a self-proclaimed psychiatrist, a person who is paid to help people.

As I noted in the above post, becoming so dependent on these animals that you show up at job interviews with them may not be helpful to people. And no, not self proclaimed.
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
It's frequently not helpful for the patients. I know of some who've shown up at job interviews with these animals. They didn't get the job
As a psychiatrist your only job is to evaluate if these people benefit from having a comfort animal by their side, and not to worry about whether this might cause them any other difficulties. Also, it's not for you to judge how these animals might affect anyone else but your patient, as it is irrelevant to you as a psychiatrist. It's your patient's immediate interests (as far as supposedly addressed by the comfort animal) you should worry about exclusively.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
As a psychiatrist your only job is to evaluate if these people benefit from having a comfort animal by their side, and not to worry about whether this might cause them any other difficulties. Also, it's not for you to judge how these animals might affect anyone else but your patient, as it is irrelevant to you as a psychiatrist. It's your patient's immediate interests (as far as supposedly addressed by the comfort animal) you should worry about exclusively.

It actually IS my job to "worry about whether this might cause them any other difficulties," very much so. Things that cause them to be ostracized, not hired, shunned, taunted, etc. impact their mental well-being and are absolutely things I should consider.
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
It actually IS my job to "worry about whether this might cause them any other difficulties," very much so. Things that cause them to be ostracized, not hired, shunned, taunted, etc. impact their mental well-being and are absolutely things I should consider.
Going to a shrink can get people ostracized too. Do you just give them a few self-help books and tell them that the key to their well-being is actually within their reach without the need of handing out their hard earned money to you?
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Going to a shrink can get people ostracized too

only if they choose to tell people about it, which some actually do as they see it as a sort of status thing. You'll be pleased to know my office is quite private and patients aren't concerned about being seen there.
 
D

Deleted member 293577

Guest
It's frequently not helpful for the patients. I know of some who've shown up at job interviews with these animals. They didn't get the job
That's a legal issue which may or may not be employer discrimination. I'm not an attorney, but there are federal protections under ADA.

What about dogs for the blind or ones that can detect epileptic seizures? Should we not allow blind people to fly? Are you just discriminating against people who suffer from anxiety disorders or everyone?
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
only if they choose to tell people about it, which some actually do as they see it as a sort of status thing. You'll be pleased to know my office is quite private and patients aren't concerned about being seen there.
Being mentally unstable to the point of needing psychiatric help is a status thing now? Where is this happening?

I'm just surprised by your callousness regarding your patients' perceived needs. If you, as a psychiatrist, determine that a comfort animal wouldn't help somebody's emotional state, it is your duty to convince your patient of that fact. If you are unable to convince your patient, then it's only fair that you provide your patient with a written statement. After all, it's not for you to enforce airline rules or interstate travel regulations. Limit yourself to do your own job, like everybody else does.
 
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