NoleFam
Bionic Poster
His chances are already very good but if he wins tomorrow, then his chances of YE #1 are beyond great. He would only need to outperform Nadal in Paris and WTF and he will have it.
Shanghai 2018 SF: Novak Djokovic vs Alexander Zverev
- Thread starter mike danny
- Start date
His chances are already very good but if he wins tomorrow, then his chances of YE #1 are beyond great. He would only need to outperform Nadal in Paris and WTF and he will have it.
B
BrokenGears
Guest
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Just enjoy the ride man. Whatever happens will happen, but his chances are really good.
B
BrokenGears
Guest
Ye I’m already really happy, I never thought he’d win 2 slams and Cinci. I always believed in him, but this level is amazing
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
And a chance for another Masters. What a crazy year this has been.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
NoleFam pretty much answered your question.
I would say if Djokovic wins tomorrow, considering he has won Paris 4 times and WTF 5 times, while Nadal has zero at both, he is about as close to a lock as you will get to ending the year number one, and he doesn't need to go to Vienna in this case. He can pick up the points in Paris and head into WTF, the new world number one.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
He may then have overplayed. Sometimes its best not to think too much about the IFs. He is fresh right now, and the big prizes are coming up, as far as points is concerned. Just a win tomorrow would give him almost as many points as he would add to his current Shanghai haul.
B
BrokenGears
Guest
I remember the beginning of the year when we were all so cautious, but now...
This has been an amazing run for Novak and I’m glad to be on the train
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
I would not use the word Pessimistic...
I would use the word Cautious. It was more of a - Lets take it one match at a time. Lets see the improvements come. Lets see a good run. Lets see a sequence of good runs. Now lets see if he can beat the best. etc.
I think pessimistic is the wrong word.
uscwang
Hall of Fame
Been puzzled and concerned, but never doubtful.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
When he was out with injury in 2017, I thought he could come back like this and I almost expected it, but it looked bleak there for a while especially after the injury was still not healed. It has been an amazing turnaround in the last 3 months.
B
BrokenGears
Guest
Ye I changed it. None of us were proclaiming he was done. We knew he would come back in some shape or form. We just didn't know when.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Most of his fans never stopped believing, but what they did do was reign in their expectations and understood the situation, that time, patience and persistence was required. Every match, we were looking to see what was getting better, such as the service motion which was abbreviated due to pain his elbow had slowly returned back to its natural state. How he was slowly looking healthier, by incorporating a more beneficial diet regime into his training i.e consuming fish to get more complete proteins. How going back to his original team was showing his mindset was coming back to where it should be.
It was all gradually happening, and then the moment he saw Nadal across the other side of the net at Rome, something triggered and the rest is history. He keeps referring back to a statement saying it all started back in Rome, when what he was really saying was, it all started the moment I saw Nadal on the other side of the net. At that point, he never looked back.
3fees
G.O.A.T.
This -2 & -1 win is not without its background H2H 0-1 in favor of Zverev Masters 1000's Final Rome 2017, Djokovic was not at his best in fact was starting his decline-injury, Djokovic evened it up H2H to 1-1, he tightened up all parts of his game was done with the win in about 1 hour. As too Zverev he has qualified for the Nitto Finals playing at O2 and has 3 titles this yr including M1K win, so actually he is one of the top 8 in the ATP- 2018.
@Mainad --Got tickets to the O2 arena ?
Cheers
3Fees
@Mainad --Got tickets to the O2 arena ?
Cheers
3Fees
Meles
Bionic Poster
Must admit one-legged Coric basically C team NextGen. Strong Era confirmed.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
Wait, how old is @Meles? I thought he was a 30-something but just thirsty for change. But I realize that that was not based on any particular evidence one way or another.
Meles
Bionic Poster
10-something young green troll.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Nope. He needed to beat the GOAT to get to Fed. However even that would not have happened because your pseudo-goat is actually a CHICKEN!!! Cluck cluck cluck
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Yeah the journos asked him about it. His nose was clogged during the press conf (an earlier one this week)
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I can't get mad at you just because I loooove your avie
(is that Fed looking up at Nole's head to head lead? Awesome!)
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
You tell me!! I like him BECAUSE he's the best and that seems a lot more logical.Why would we be jealous that Zverev is the best in a sea of mugs?
But of course, the GOAT was a step too high for him. Anyone can lose to the GOAT, not a valid reason for Z bashing
The Green Mile
Bionic Poster
Quite the cringe inducing match that was. Novak utterly dominated him tactically and had him on a string throughout this farce. It left Zverev panicking on serve and forcing the deliveries, ala, Milos Raonic style 
Terrible low percentage, massive high risk 2nd serves, etc.
I thought this battle on serve would be interesting, Novak content to chip majority of the 1st serves back into play, effectively neutralizing the point and relying on this superior athleticism onward to absorb and redirect. Very disciplined as usual, what was it, only the two winner in the 1st set? The baseline exchanges then became predictable thereafter. Zverev forehand and forehand return were depressing to watch.
Terrible low percentage, massive high risk 2nd serves, etc. I thought this battle on serve would be interesting, Novak content to chip majority of the 1st serves back into play, effectively neutralizing the point and relying on this superior athleticism onward to absorb and redirect. Very disciplined as usual, what was it, only the two winner in the 1st set? The baseline exchanges then became predictable thereafter. Zverev forehand and forehand return were depressing to watch.
Zetty
Hall of Fame
Yep he needs time to wind up and crush the ball. Just not fast enough when someone like Fed or Djokovic change directions on a faster or lower bouncing court.
Gary Duane
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think it has anything to do with being a fan. Some people are patient, and the wise never count ATGs out. Never.
I partially disagree. If you take the time to watch his serve carefully as it is now, you will see a big different in the wind-up. Look at the wrist and where it stops about at waist level or a bit below, and look at the racket head. Then look at the same as recently as his NCYGS years.
The 2010 motion is awful, and you can see why his service game fell off a cliff. People forget that his serve improved in 2011, but he still won only 85% of his service games on HC that year, and that is low for a guy who was winning 41% of his return games. That's actually the record of a guy with an OK serve, not a weakness, but not a real strength, backing up the serve with GOAT-level defensive skills. Most people have not yet fully taken in what it means to win 41% of all games on a surface for a complete year on HC.
You can check by year here:
https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/novak-djokovic/d643/player-stats?year=2011&surfaceType=hard
In 2012 most likely the serve improved more. It takes a good year for any kind of big change to become 2nd nature. His return stats fell by 4% but the serve went up by 4 to 89%, and 89% is the difference between an OK player with GOAT-level skills backing up the serve to something really impressive. That serving level stayed there through 2014. In 2015 that stat only fell to 88%, rounded off. 87% in 2016, but that was greatly affected by the second half of the year. Then the elbow thing happened.
Take a careful look at this video again, and note that in 2014, right in the middle of his best serving years, the racket head dropped vertically to about one foot of the ground pointing straight down.
In Jan. of this year he racket head is raised to waist level, and then the racket handle falls barely below horizontal. It's a huge change, but the later part of the serve looks much the same to me. Brad Gilbert liked the change and predicted he might get more action on the ball when he got used to it. He made this prediction back in January.
The 2018 motion is from last Jan., so he has tweaked it.
Now look at this, from CIncy.
Go to 1:13, set to 25% speed. You will see now that he has blended the old motion with the new. The wrist stays at roughly waist level, which is still very different, the forearm drops below horizontal, but not much, maybe at around 105 degrees, then the wrist drops almost limply, almost pointing at the ground, but not quite. The wrist remains amazingly loose, and although the swing after that looks about the same, the mental advantage is that he is thinking loose and maybe more of a whip action. This could potentially give him the appearance of a liver arm and might make spin even easier.
I love the motion.
I teach piano, and I teach really hard stuff that won't work unless you are totally relaxed. We use the wrist, elbows, forearms and shoulders for everything, and the main principle is that everything is free to move, nothing has to move too much. What you do before you strike a note has nothing to do with the sound you make, but it has everything to do with how much speed you can generate on each repeated keystroke. My eye is trained to spot anything that is effortless and repeatable.
Definitely agree he looks way more healthy again, but I'd also like to point out that big muscles are hugely exaggerated in importance to the idea that recent thinking has been that developing the kind of muscles that you normally only see with weight training is what produces the power, and I don't agree with that at all. I think it's the Nadal effect, the biceps. I'd always pick the guys like Djokovic in tennis who look like greyhounds, no more weight than necessary in the upper body, no emphasis on muscles that are not needed for tennis. To me getting arms like Nadal in tennis is just stupid and ego driven, about like trying to work biceps for a swimmer (unnecessary and extra weight to carry through the water.)
Hitman, I think we are seeing something new. I have not seen this kind of play from a guy 31 years old since Laver in 1969. (Yes, I am THAT old. <sigh>)
From this tournament alone his service game stats on HC are going to go up a point, maybe two, and when you factor in the awful beginning of the year, I think we may be right now looking at a level of serving we've never seen before. His game looks more complete, and the lack of winners in the last match just shows that when you never miss, when everything is places right, and when no one can break you, you just concentrate on not making mistakes.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Nope. He needed to beat the GOAT to get to Fed. However even that would not have happened because your pseudo-goat is actually a CHICKEN!!! Cluck cluck cluck
hah, one of your guys is THE big chicken (Nadal) , hiding behind the mask of injuries (&also avoiding non-clay meetings) and the other guy (Djokovic) also has picked it from him (extending it for 2nd half of 2016, start of 2017)
And obviously both guys will be retired by the time they are 35,36 ...not kicking the a** of another ATG like Federer did to your boy Nadal at 35.5+
In any case, your new young guy Zverev was so pathetic in the semi that you have to use another one of BS excuses like cold for him ..so poor that he couldn't even make the 3rd greatest guy of the era work for the win. It was a virtual walkvoer.
In reality, Djokovic is not even top 5 for GOAT, unlike your fantasy delusions (Federer, Laver, Gonzalez, Tilden and Nadal are all greater)
You could easily say Djokovic isn't even the greatest at any of the slams (obviously not within a country mile at RG, Wim or USO and fed's done more at the AO), let alone overall. but keep deluding yourself.
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CYGS
Legend
Biggest chicken is the one who skipped the entire clay season.hah, one of your guys is THE big chicken (Nadal) , hiding behind the mask of injuries (&also avoiding non-clay meetings) and the other guy (Djokovic) also has picked it from him (extending it for 2nd half of 2016, start of 2017)
And obviously both guys will be retired by the time they are 35,36 ...not kicking the a** of another ATG like Federer did to your boy Nadal at 35.5+
In any case, your new young guy Zverev was so pathetic in the semi that you have to use another one of BS excuses like cold for him ..so poor that he couldn't even make the 3rd greatest guy of the era work for the win. It was a virtual walkvoer.
In reality, Djokovic is not even top 5 for GOAT, unlike your fantasy delusions (Federer, Laver, Gonzalez, Tilden and Nadal are all greater)
You could easily say Djokovic isn't even the greatest at any of the slams (obviously not within a country mile at RG, Wim or USO and fed's done more at the AO), let alone overall. but keep deluding yourself.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Djoko is not the best at any of the slams, quite right but he’s the closest thing to being the best at overall achievements (any surface, format, category, etc). That has been my argument all along (comprehensiveness vs specialization). You can disagree with prioritizing most complete resume but you cannot disagree with Djoko being the player with the most complete resume because that’s a fact.hah, one of your guys is THE big chicken (Nadal) , hiding behind the mask of injuries (&also avoiding non-clay meetings) and the other guy (Djokovic) also has picked it from him (extending it for 2nd half of 2016, start of 2017)
And obviously both guys will be retired by the time they are 35,36 ...not kicking the a** of another ATG like Federer did to your boy Nadal at 35.5+
In any case, your new young guy Zverev was so pathetic in the semi that you have to use another one of BS excuses like cold for him ..so poor that he couldn't even make the 3rd greatest guy of the era work for the win. It was a virtual walkvoer.
In reality, Djokovic is not even top 5 for GOAT, unlike your fantasy delusions (Federer, Laver, Gonzalez, Tilden and Nadal are all greater)
You could easily say Djokovic isn't even the greatest at any of the slams (obviously not within a country mile at RG, Wim or USO and fed's done more at the AO), let alone overall. but keep deluding yourself.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Yeah
Of all the things a Fed fan might say to take a dump on Nadal, being a chicken is the most full of ****.
It's like a black man hating an albino 'cause he's black'
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