Shanghai Masters deserves a demotion, not a promotion to a "super masters"

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
I find it absurd that Shanghai's tournament director called for the creation of a new tournament category, higher than the Masters. (Indian Wells did too).

Tweet:
Indian Wells tournament director confirmed to me that they have,as Shanghai,asked for creating a new tournament category like super Masters
https://twitter.com/carole_bouchard/status/709768699352186880

(That was back in March)

This was the attendance of the Lopez/Sock match today.
CudxS7LVUAASLsg.jpg:large

Now I know it's no Djokovic/Federer match but these are two big stars and to have literally noone in the crowd is a disgrace. And then the tournament director wants a promotion. I get that China can offer lots of money, but it is embarrassing to see noone in the crowd.

CujTvoGXYAU1hLU.jpg

This was the Simon/Wu match. Wu is a Chinese player playing in his home country and yet barely anyone there. I know when an American plays in America or a British player in Britain is playing, it's packed. And we see that?

Compare this to the Brisbane tournament which is a small ATP250, always has a packed out stadium, sold out many times. Has five top 10 players for 2017 and is still an ATP250. And yet Shanghai wants a promotion above a Masters1000? Just absurd.

This was a Tomic/Stepanek match in Brisbane.
CYCJzVfUMAI-wWy.jpg


This was a Nishikori/Kukushkin match in Brisbane
CYAjgAsUkAEkwRQ.jpg
 

Kalin

Legend
Having the otherwise beautiful tennis complex very far from city centre doesn't help, probably. Also, what you usually see from the regular camera angles are the premium seats that cost a ton; the cheaper seats are somewhat better filled up.
 

roysid

Legend
I always thought Indian Wells and Miami(not Shanghai) should have a category above the masters 1000. These are 2 weeks tournaments, a 96 player draw and one has to go through 6 matches over two weeks to win one.

Doesn't feel right when one gets the same points in a 56 player draw -1 week tournament.

But Shanghai asking to be elevated. It's ridiculous. Not only its a 56 player tournament. It's after the 4 grand slams and by then top players usually lose interest or are injured.

But then, China is known to pressurize with the power of money. A few years back, players were asked if Beijing should be made 5th grand slam (holy cow). and there was a demand for 5th grand slam which was pacified by telling Australian Open - The Grand slam of Asia pacific
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
I can agree with the idea of a "super master". However, the Shanghai tournament asking for this is ridiculous. It feels like a 250 event. If anything Beiijing looked more convincing as a bigger tournament than Shanghai does. The stands are so empty and emotionless, it certainly doesn't do the sport any favor.
 
O

OhYes

Guest
Djokovic would be considered as GOAT of "Super Masters", if Miami, Indian Wells and Shanghai get promotion. He won those tournaments more than anybody else.
Indian Wells - 5 times
Miami - 6 times
Shanghai - 3 times
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Shanghai masters should just lower entrance fees. I'm sure there are enough Chinese around to fill a stadion, if only they could afford paying for it.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
China wants to buy up prestigious Western events for no other purpose than that it has money and it projects Chinese power.

And the world doesn't really care. They've already downgraded Hamburg for the Chinese so they won't change policy now.
No, they downgraded Hamburg for Madrid
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
How much are tickets? Eventually sports become too expensive for what your getting.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
No, Madrid just moved from fall to spring and from indoor hardcourt to clay. So Shanghai took Madrid's spot and Madrid took Hamburg's spot, which means that Hamburg fell victim to Shanghai.
Well, if we follow that line of thinking, Shanghai used to host the YEC, which went to London... So it actually got downgraded and Hamburg fell victim to London
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Well, if we follow that line of thinking, Shanghai used to host the YEC, which went to London... So it actually got downgraded and Hamburg fell victim to London
That's right of course. And I really didn't see any sense in moving the YEC to London back in 2009, but now I somehow like the venue. Still one city shouldn't have a Grand Slam and the YEC however. Also 3 Masters in one country (USA) is a bit too much.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Haven't watched any matches yet and won't bother unless it's a Wawrinka-Djokovic final. First time this has happened in the last 8-9 years.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
I can agree with the idea of a "super master". However, the Shanghai tournament asking for this is ridiculous. It feels like a 250 event. If anything Beiijing looked more convincing as a bigger tournament than Shanghai does. The stands are so empty and emotionless, it certainly doesn't do the sport any favor.

More like an Exo. One in which Nick hasn't met even the minimal appearance money requirements.
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
That's right of course. And I really didn't see any sense in moving the YEC to London back in 2009, but now I somehow like the venue. Still one city shouldn't have a Grand Slam and the YEC however. Also 3 Masters in one country (USA) is a bit too much.
I can see your point about London, it's got Wimbledon, WTF and Queen, so 3 tournaments total. However, given the popularity of tennis in England and the history, I think it's justified. Tennis is far from being as popular in Asia. 3 masters in the USA is a bit much I agree, but if I recall, there's a chance Miami is gone. Actually, the one country that really got the shaft in 2009 is Hamburg. For a country with such a great tennis heritage, it should have at least one MS-1000. Even though I'm from Canada, I honestly think that Europe is the best fit for tennis events in general. Tennis is DOA in the US since Sampras/Agassi retired, interest in Asia just doesn't seem there even though they have the money. The only new market that might have some potential is perhaps India, seeing as to how popular the IPTL is.
 

coloskier

Legend
I find it absurd that Shanghai's tournament director called for the creation of a new tournament category, higher than the Masters. (Indian Wells did too).

Tweet:
Indian Wells tournament director confirmed to me that they have,as Shanghai,asked for creating a new tournament category like super Masters
https://twitter.com/carole_bouchard/status/709768699352186880

(That was back in March)

This was the attendance of the Lopez/Sock match today.
CudxS7LVUAASLsg.jpg:large

Now I know it's no Djokovic/Federer match but these are two big stars and to have literally noone in the crowd is a disgrace. And then the tournament director wants a promotion. I get that China can offer lots of money, but it is embarrassing to see noone in the crowd.

CujTvoGXYAU1hLU.jpg

This was the Simon/Wu match. Wu is a Chinese player playing in his home country and yet barely anyone there. I know when an American plays in America or a British player in Britain is playing, it's packed. And we see that?

Compare this to the Brisbane tournament which is a small ATP250, always has a packed out stadium, sold out many times. Has five top 10 players for 2017 and is still an ATP250. And yet Shanghai wants a promotion above a Masters1000? Just absurd.

This was a Tomic/Stepanek match in Brisbane.
CYCJzVfUMAI-wWy.jpg


This was a Nishikori/Kukushkin match in Brisbane
CYAjgAsUkAEkwRQ.jpg
Can't blame them. Simon puts everyone to sleep.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Lmao no thanks

Boring tournament with half empty stadiums.

And double no thanks to masters with BORING slow grindy pusher plexicushion surfaces (IW, Miami)

No how about relegate all 3 to 500 status. Upgrade Halle and Queens to masters status and have them played on different weeks (1 week break after Halle for that Dutch grass tournament then queens after) then upgrade Swiss indoors and reinstate hamburg to masters series too.

Then upgrade Cincinatti to 5th slam and retroactively award all Cincinatti wins as slam victorys Giving GOATerer 24 slams in total.
 

Kalin

Legend
How much are tickets? Eventually sports become too expensive for what your getting.

A general entry ticket costs you the equivalent of 10 US Dollars and gets you free entry into every court except the Stadium Court all the way until the Quarters (from there onwards everything is inside the Stadium). It means that for the first few days you can get great seats at the Grandstand and the Union Pay Court and watch matches of some very high quality from up close.

The cheapest seats at the stadium (and those are like watching from outer space, I'd assume, given how big it is) start at about 30 USD for the first rounds, then 60 for the QF and 120 for the finals, not cheap. The nice seats near the court cost an arm and a leg and many I assume are given to sponsors and may remain, sadly, unused. I got a ticket for the QFs in so-so seats for around 75 USD equiv; wouldn't call that cheap by any means.

This explains why the main stadium is somewhat empty for the early rounds; tons of people just buy the 10 USD entry ticket and walk around where they can watch plenty of matches as well as the practice sessions of all players. When Roger was practicing a couple of years ago with Stanimal there was a huge crowd around watching them.

Add to all this the fact that the facility is very far and that many kids who could afford it are at school and you can see why it is not crowded early on inside the main court.

Having said that, last year there were lots of people inside the main stadium from the QFs onwards; hope it's the same this year too.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
No, they downgraded Hamburg for Madrid

That's true but China was part of the deal. When the contract for staging the WTF moved from Shanghai to London in 2009, the Chinese pressured the ATP to compensate Shanghai by making it a Masters tournament. As there was no room in the schedule for a 10th Masters, they downgraded Hamburg and, with the connivance of Ion Tiriac, the billionnaire owner of the Madrid Masters, moved Madrid into Hamburg's place as the 3rd clay Masters and gave Madrid's old spot to Shanghai.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
The fact is: empty seats during Fed's match:
*image*
Yeah, I call ******** on the use of that photo. It's during warm-up and, by the looks of it, the first match of the night session. I bet by the second changeover there would have been twice that many people in there.

Edit. Confirmed. Here's some pics from during the match. Minimum 80% full, more like 90%.
lS09SbC.png

NtpyqZi.png
 
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Sartorius

Hall of Fame

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
No. That poster just says Fed's absence might have some effect this year, and doesn't mention Nadal at all. It's you who saw the need to come up with a picture and go "look, here's a picture of Fed's pre-match warm up in 2013 and *gasp* there are empty seats! And it's fact"...

*sigh* I really shouldn't be doing this..

I did not mention Rafa when I posted a picture of Fed!
 

Sartorius

Hall of Fame
I did not mention Rafa when I posted a picture of Fed!

True, that was just the intro. The crescendo was when you picked "a crowded Fed practice session" line from another poster and went "look, Rafa in 2014 and 2015 had crowded practice sessions!". *clap clap*
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
True, that was just the intro. The crescendo was when you picked "a crowded Fed practice session" line from another poster and went "look, Rafa in 2014 and 2015 had crowded practice sessions!". *clap clap*

If I may ask why Fed's practise sessions (long time ago in Shanghai) can be mentioned in this thread, but Rafa's practice sessions can't be mentioned? :rolleyes:
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
If I may ask why Fed's practise sessions (long time ago in Shanghai) can be mentioned in this thread, but Rafa's practice sessions can't be mentioned? :rolleyes:
Perhaps because neither have anything to do with the subject of this thread? :rolleyes:
Seriously, have you ever got yourself checked on some kind of a reading comprehension-problem?
 

ArcspacE

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I call ******** on the use of that photo. It's during warm-up and, by the looks of it, the first match of the night session. I bet by the second changeover there would have been twice that many people in there.

Edit. Confirmed. Here's some pics from during the match. Minimum 80% full, more like 90%.
lS09SbC.png

NtpyqZi.png
Hahaha
 

Sartorius

Hall of Fame
295x221px-LL-1f759989_Jerry-Seinfeld-Leaving1.gif


Edit: No no no wait... I can do this, I have to try.

reverse-1238584287_seinfeld_had_enough.gif


Someone thinks Fed has something to do:



Fed is mentioned in this thread in the context of his abscence from the tournament; this includes Kalin's Fed's practice session line which serves as a complimentary comment about the effect he has in the tournament.

What you do in this thread is first trying to discredit Fed's effect by posting an "empty seats" warm-up picture from 2013 (not to mention what Bobby Jr did to that later), then you take the practice session comment and show pictures of Nadal's (who was already present this year unlike Fed) crowded practice sessions, merely to show that Nadal too has crowded practice sessions (which is irrelevant).
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
Having the otherwise beautiful tennis complex very far from city centre doesn't help, probably. Also, what you usually see from the regular camera angles are the premium seats that cost a ton; the cheaper seats are somewhat better filled up.
I don't get it. Why charge so much for "premium" seats when nobody is filling them?
Things are only worth as much as people are willing to pay - so there's clearly nothing premium about those tickets.

Businesses assigning false value and "premium" status to low-value stuff grinds my gears.
 

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
295x221px-LL-1f759989_Jerry-Seinfeld-Leaving1.gif


Edit: No no no wait... I can do this, I have to try.

reverse-1238584287_seinfeld_had_enough.gif




Fed is mentioned in this thread in the context of his abscence from the tournament; this includes Kalin's Fed's practice session line which serves as a complimentary comment about the effect he has in the tournament.

What you do in this thread is first trying to discredit Fed's effect by posting an "empty seats" warm-up picture from 2013 (not to mention what Bobby Jr did to that later), then you take the practice session comment and show pictures of Nadal's (who was already present this year unlike Fed) crowded practice sessions, merely to show that Nadal too has crowded practice sessions (which is irrelevant).


Photos from Rafa's crowded practice sessions are as relevant as comments about Fed's crowded practice sessions.
 
What about the Djokovic match ?

The stadium must have been jam-packed with Nole's devout fans who have travelled from far and wide, some even walking for days, or scaling the Himalayas and crossing the Khardung-La to see the Mightiest Warrior.

Surely by now Fedr and Nadl are forgotten entities, relics of bygone decades.
Fedr and Nadl, were they a comic duo like Penn and Teller? I have forgotten.
 

Kalin

Legend
Fed is mentioned in this thread in the context of his abscence from the tournament; this includes Kalin's Fed's practice session line which serves as a complimentary comment about the effect he has in the tournament.

Yeah, I should have mentioned Rafa too in the name of universal fairness ;)

I was actually making the point that if one can watch Roger (and yes, Rafa and Novak and Andy too) practice + watch some great matches from up close + actually play on the available free courts (not sure if actually allowed but we've done it with no repercussions), and all this for the price of a 10-dollar ticket it makes it harder to justify buying an expensive stadium ticket.

Now, the powers that be- please don't take this as an excuse to jack up the price of General Entry!! What you should do is reduce the prices for the highest Stadium seats for the first few days. Heck, make the General Entry ticket good for the cheapest stadium seats during the first couple of days.

TBH, I was watching on TV yesterday and the Stadium was quite full already. It will be packed as of today when all matches (bar doubles, probably) are played inside the Satdium and a general-entry ticket doesn't let you in.

I don't get it. Why charge so much for "premium" seats when nobody is filling them?
Things are only worth as much as people are willing to pay - so there's clearly nothing premium about those tickets.

Businesses assigning false value and "premium" status to low-value stuff grinds my gears.

Yup, fully agree. I think these seats sell-off very well for the last few days but for the beginning of the tournament they cost way too much.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
The fact is: empty seats during Fed's match:

CuoO1BzXgAABzdh.jpg

The match hasn't even started judging by the scoreline. Quite misleading.

A huge crowd has always watched Rafa's practice sessions:

Shanghai Masters 2014
14705632_1140836805981543_5283149869949567114_n.jpg


Shanghai Masters 2015
14713523_1140836912648199_3980861481527754876_n.jpg


Oh wow a packed practice session. Here's Nadal v Troicki. 2016, aka a few days ago.
CukBGX-XYAATiBc.jpg


I spy quite a lot of empty seats AND it's DURING the match. But cool that you think a couple Nadal training session a few years ago means he's more popular then Fed. lol.


All seats were actually sold; people were lining up outside to get their complimentary "I saw the GOAT" badges.
Oh, no doubt, Rafa is very popular here

Trust octo to immediately turn this into a popularity contest between Fedal. :D I wonder if she has files on her computer that go like "fedemptyseats.jpg", "fedmtolist.txt"...

On topic, Super Masters is a super-stupid idea. The regular tour doesn't need corporate like powerhouse tournaments.

Yeah, I call ******** on the use of that photo. It's during warm-up and, by the looks of it, the first match of the night session. I bet by the second changeover there would have been twice that many people in there.

Photos from Rafa's crowded practice sessions are as relevant as comments about Fed's crowded practice sessions.


Tagged a few of the posts just to prove to some posters that Octo was of course being misleading and painting Nadal in a positive light and Fed in a negative one. Lol.
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
OP, what's your overall assessment of the year in tennis? Was 2016 a gain for the sport? Feel like it was a mixed bag, but pretty decidedly leaning towards a loss! Would like to be optimistic... but the trends aren't great, if you ask me!
 
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